The Big Picture: Remembering the Real Jack Thompson

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UberPubert

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Jun 18, 2012
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Izanagi009 said:
please stop making the comparison, their end goals are different so I say we judge their goals and their means together. Both are wrongheaded in how they present their case but one is actively imposing on a constitutional right and the other doesn't
You would presume to know Anita Sarkeesian's goals.

I am not going to make such an assumption, I will only point out that if she's not looking to get videogames banned on account of being harmful to society - the same argument Jack Thompson used - then she's laying out a lot of groundwork for someone else who may try.

I will not accept this as harmless, wong-headed criticism when it so closely aligns with the rhetoric we've heard before.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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faeshadow said:
Thompson may have had legislation powers, but Sarkeesian has the power of national consciousness. And that is something that politicians will easily bend over to obey. At least, as long as it gets them votes.
How fortunate, then, that she's not trying to dictate, mandate, or legislate anything, or this might be a real worry.
 

Something Amyss

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Izanagi009 said:
Also, I have to set high standards about our community, setting them low will lead to contempt and lack of real improvement. Dotting on them and saying they are fine is not how you make someone improve, you push them through hell and high water until they are better.
And yet, you're holding criticism of one medium to a higher standard than that of others. Hell, have you complained about the lack of academic standards in Moviebob's pieces?
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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UberPubert said:
Izanagi009 said:
please stop making the comparison, their end goals are different so I say we judge their goals and their means together. Both are wrongheaded in how they present their case but one is actively imposing on a constitutional right and the other doesn't
You would presume to know Anita Sarkeesian's goals.

I am not going to make such an assumption, I will only point out that if she's not looking to get videogames banned on account of being harmful to society - the same argument Jack Thompson used - then she's laying out a lot of groundwork for someone else who may try.

I will not accept this as harmless, wrong-headed criticism when it so closely aligns with the rhetoric we've heard before.
fair enough but i will wait and see what the results of her "criticism" are before I make the same judgement as yours
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Apr 25, 2013
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Izanagi009 said:
Also, I have to set high standards about our community, setting them low will lead to contempt and lack of real improvement. Dotting on them and saying they are fine is not how you make someone improve, you push them through hell and high water until they are better.
And yet, you're holding criticism of one medium to a higher standard than that of others. Hell, have you complained about the lack of academic standards in Moviebob's pieces?
Perhaps not but this is a soapbox, I merely see them as opinions that I can ignore or accept. However, if I was in a serious debate about the tropes of women in games,books, or movies, I would be inclined to take the well researched argument over the soapbox.

Also, I'm not holding criticism of one medium to a higher standard, all media needs to be held at that high standard lest we dive into utterly horrible works or see our pop culture degrade in intelligence further.
 

UberPubert

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Izanagi009 said:
fair enough but i will wait and see what the results of her "criticism" are before I make the same judgement as yours
I take no issue with a reserved opinion, but I feel we have already seen some of the results:

Thunderous applause from the gaming media.

This does not bode well for a hypotheses of harmlessness.
 

Jumplion

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faeshadow said:
Mr. Omega said:
4:45 to 5:00, people. That's what this was all about. And he's right. I've see enough people bring up this particular boogeyman I've just stopped responding to it because of how stupid the comparison is. If nothing else, it helps me realize whose opinions I don't have to take seriously.
How is it a stupid comparison?

"Video games cause violence" and "Video games cause sexism" are not exactly different mindsets. They're just blaming inanimate objects on different things.
Nobody is saying "video games cause sexism."

There is a difference between saying 'Media Causes X' and 'When X occurs, we think of it as Normal'. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzqQgAJd6Xo]

This is something more people need to understand when we talk about these sorts of issues.
 

Rickolas Walrus

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V4Viewtiful said:
I can't hear Ollie North without that American Dad song
Got you covered


Never heard of the guy myself, so this was interesting. Then again I don't really follow all the big stories about video games, I just play them
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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UberPubert said:
Izanagi009 said:
fair enough but i will wait and see what the results of her "criticism" are before I make the same judgement as yours
I take no issue with a reserved opinion, but I feel we have already seen some of the results:

Thunderous applause from the gaming media.

This does not bode well for a hypotheses of harmlessness.
applause on the points, not the methods.

like I said, the points are fine, the meat around them is poor and with little research. With time, things will correct themselves
 

Uriel_Hayabusa

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I'd say that Bob is the one being disingenuous here. Thompson isn't being brought up in this context as a boogieman, it's to make people aware of how badly both the gaming community and the gaming media responded to him.

Fact is that the worst of Jack Thompson's detractors were no better than the dirtbags who threaten Anita Sarkeesian; but you'll be hard-pressed to find any articles on game sites from back then that called out or decried the harassment and death threats made towards him.

Again, the point isn't that Jack Thompson was an angel, it's that he didn't deserve death threats. And the gaming media fucked up real bad when they endorsed or even applaued harassment and death threats back when he was the target.
 

Jumplion

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Mikeyfell said:
So Jack Thompson is a despicable hypocrite, yet you don't see any parallels between him and Anita Sarkeesian?

I mean, death threats are bad no matter who gets them, but you don't see how awful it is for someone who throws around the word "misogynist" like it's candy and yet bends over backwards to point out that every instance of violence against men is somehow "Framed acceptably" by video games.

The broad strokes of her message are fine, better female characters who wouldn't want that.
But her personal bigotry against men makes her an unsuitable figurehead for anything really
Where has she ever expressed "personal bigotry" towards men? I have not seen a single example of this in her videos or various tweets, not even in your offhand example where you completely miss the point of what it means for a game to "frame" violence as an acceptable means of a solution.
 

UberPubert

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Izanagi009 said:
applause on the points, not the methods.

like I said, the points are fine, the meat around them is poor and with little research. With time, things will correct themselves
That would depend on the point.

If the argument is "we could use more female protagonists in games, look at these statistics that show they're uncommon" and I'll take no issue.

The moment 'misogyny' enters the conversation, we have an accusation, an accusation without evidence or statement from the accused, and to see it taken at face value - with cheering fans abreast a stage of Anita's choosing - is more than troubling.

I will not submit that attributions both blanketing and specific of bigotry among games, the people behind them, or the ones who enjoy them are harmless.
 

cleric of the order

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0:54 seconds
Bob, That is when I stopped watching.
That is the point when I said I don't think I could watch any more of your stuff.
Bob, I've stuck through despite having differing views on gamergate.
Despite your twitter actions and your other attempts to swing the nature of your narrative in this manner.
When you made a plea for analytical discussion, I knew what your were trying to do much like how extra credits tried to provide a similar argument on their own channel and to date it will be their dumbest, weakest and least thought out episode to date.
I would have simply wrote this off as another pile of crap and I'd go back to my self fable of being Benjamen from animal farm but my brother spurned me onto watch up to 4:54.

Bob, I'm not mild a mild man, but try to be slow to anger.
People have gone years without ever seeing me so much as irritated and I pride myself on that.
This for the first time in years has gotten me genuinely upset.
I have never been quite as angry with you or what you represent then now.
Bob, if you think Mcint- i mean Anita is worth discussion, PLEASE center a video on it.
Explain things about here, give me a reason why her work is academically, Don't actually focus on any of the harassment, Explain why what she is saying, why she is saying it and look into the research she did to do it.
Do not hide tail and through rocks at us from trees, be honest with your intention.
Otherwise I will go through rationally and examine what she is doing and why she is doing it.
Frankly from what I see She is precisely like the Jack Thompson you described and more importantly her arguments use a similar sense of logic to his from what I've been able to stomach of that grade 9 presentation McIntosh calls a video.
There is legitimate criticism of her as a public figure and her academic methods.
I find the worst sin she has committed in her videos was she simply does not care, you can tell it in her tone and in her discussion, she has no love for our hobby.
And if you do create a video I suggest tackling the video she made about literally saying she Is not a Gamer and find them gross because she doesn't want to go around shooting people.

That being said, bob you have lost yourself another one of the few fans that could tolerate having different ideological views then your own.
You have lost a fan that has enjoyed your videos to this point and until today I don't think there is a video you've uploaded here that I have ever found myself unable to watch and this is the first.
Go have a in depth discussion with your friend, Dr Punchy Wright because He's doing a horrible job proof reading or your videos.
Thank you.
And stop releasing these videos timed with Jim, I wouldn't normally examine it this way but it's hard for me not to see what you are blatantly trying to do when I read the front page.
 

PainInTheAssInternet

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Dec 30, 2011
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Guys, for shit's sake. All Chipman did was point out that Sarkeesian is not gaming's Hitler. You are acting as exactly the reason these cultural criticisms and discussions are necessary.
 

cleric of the order

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Sep 13, 2010
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You know what
here
I feel this was a much better and hell much more interesting attempt to analyze things.
And better yet I feel pretty fucking hopeful about the game industry then when I've had the misfortune to watch Anita's regurgitation.
 

tm96

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
Guys, for shit's sake. All Chipman did was point out that Sarkeesian is not gaming's Hitler. You are acting as exactly the reason these cultural criticisms and discussions are necessary.
I agree with this. Anita can speak her opinions to who wants to hear them. Granted I won't listen to them but at least its a sign of video games growing up to the level of other artistic mediums so at least I can be thankful for that.