The Big Picture: Shell Shock
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As far as I know he was always called Eggman and Robotnik was just is american name. That why he had the egg fortress in the earier sonic game. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe it was just our school, but it was widely known to us that the Turtles originated from a comic and were more gritty, but the comics themselves weren't popular. I did seek them out later, though.
In any case, the TV-version was the thing everyone knew the Turtles from.
In any case, the TV-version was the thing everyone knew the Turtles from.
When I grew up during the 90's I always thought the Archie Comics Turtles was better then the cartoon. Mostly because of things like having storyline, April was actually contributing to fighting, they delved in to territory of the supernatural, they travel around the world, the villains actually posed a threat at times and they didn't fight the same villain all the time.
But that is just my preferred nostalgia Turtles.
But that is just my preferred nostalgia Turtles.
I can remember EVERYONE at school being into the Turtles when I was 10 or 11, they were the reason I got into a lot of things like comics, video games, sci-fi, and generally spending all my hard-earned cash on Things-I-Don't-Need-But-Really-Want-Because-It-Looks-Awesome... The TV show got me into the Archie Comics version, then the first movie, THEN the B&W stuff - I can still remember being a kid coming across the original stuff in a local comic shop (kind of place which I had no idea could even exist in real life and didn't want to leave once I'd found it), being kind of scared of the violent pictures and then having the shop guy look at me like an idiot when my brother & I tried to ask him which characters in the B&W books were supposed to be Bebop & Rocksteady... Been hooked ever since and this is one series that's gone through reboot after overhaul after re-imagining with each version, gotta agree with Bob though that my least favorite is the more recent animated stuff, it was closer to the original comics but felt like something was missing (Although 'Turtles Forever' will go down as 'Best Thing Ever That I Didn't Even Know About And Found By Accident' lol)...
Incidentally, I remember hearing somewhere that the wolf and turtle mutants from the second movie were supposed to be the bebop & Rocksteady characters of the live action stuff, apparently there were copyright issues to do with the TV to movie transfer of the characters... Does anyone know more about this?
Incidentally, I remember hearing somewhere that the wolf and turtle mutants from the second movie were supposed to be the bebop & Rocksteady characters of the live action stuff, apparently there were copyright issues to do with the TV to movie transfer of the characters... Does anyone know more about this?
Two things I hate that Bob does, exemplified in this episode:
"This movie is going to suck, even though I haven't seen it and it has barely even started being made yet." As exemplified by his statement that the first screenshots will no doubt be awful.
"You're lying when you said you did this, and I know this because I just do." As exemplified by him calling out his own audience as those who didn't read the original TMNT comic.
"This movie is going to suck, even though I haven't seen it and it has barely even started being made yet." As exemplified by his statement that the first screenshots will no doubt be awful.
"You're lying when you said you did this, and I know this because I just do." As exemplified by him calling out his own audience as those who didn't read the original TMNT comic.
Nice analysis of the fandom of Mass Effect, Bob, and I totally agree, but...
Uh... you didn't really go into how it could go wrong. Just your personal opinions of what you want to see from it and a detailed history (that I enjoyed) of TMNT. Not saying it's a bad movie; just saying your description is a bit misleading.
Uh... you didn't really go into how it could go wrong. Just your personal opinions of what you want to see from it and a detailed history (that I enjoyed) of TMNT. Not saying it's a bad movie; just saying your description is a bit misleading.
I have to admit I never heard of the Original comics until I was working at a B Daltons when I was 16. They had the original comics bunched into graphic novels and I fell in love with the style. They actually seemed like ninjas moreso than wisecracking jackanapes. That being said, I loved the cartoon when I was a kid. Heck I think I still have some vhs tapes around here somewhere. Oh well it's like Elijah said the hardest part is letting go. I could really care less about the new iteration but I'm not going to cause a stink about it either.
I hazard to guess you have never watched one of the 60 or so game overthinker episodes? I highly reccomend you and for that matter everyone into gaming should.NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Oh and btw Mass effect is a franchise owned by a company that likes money very very very much, they´ll probably do whatever the hell they feel like to make more money up to and including game content and or endings, Let´s face it you along with me will probably be playing the next installment of that series.
Game Over-thinker was okay until he decided to make it a kids show for adults or something.Arronax said:
I think we are avoiding the real issue is Michael Bay, not changing of franchise storylines. I jest... but as long as a good movie doesn't matter, the problem it seems with Mass Effect was over 3 games they lead you to believe it would be good and it wasn't. It couldn't match the hype or the time people invested, where as with Michael Bay you watch the movie and for an hour or so, it might suck but atleast its not twilight and you can move on.
Good games are more engaging and that's why although some people are tired or hearing it, that I guess Mass Effect matters more. I don't think he meant to offend but I think he's tired of it being the only topic of discussing, like when every forum thread was about skyrim.
Good games are more engaging and that's why although some people are tired or hearing it, that I guess Mass Effect matters more. I don't think he meant to offend but I think he's tired of it being the only topic of discussing, like when every forum thread was about skyrim.
To all defending "Eggman" because it was the orginal Japanese name: yeah we get it. That was the point. Bob was illustrating that what matters to him was how it was introduced to him, and that (for better or worse) nostalgia can be stronger than truth in the mind of fanboys. Regardless of origin, Robotnik is just way more kickass - especially when Steve Urkel pronounces it "RoBUTnik".
He also wrongly applied this same logic to the audience in assuming that just because we were statistically all introduced to TMNT by the cartoon, doing any further digging into their history and enjoying the comics, perhaps even more than the cartoon, makes you a Pabst drinker. Absolutely disgraceful..... shame. shame. shaemmmmmmhmmhmm pabst. grgrgrlgrglhhh i have all the comics!!!
He also wrongly applied this same logic to the audience in assuming that just because we were statistically all introduced to TMNT by the cartoon, doing any further digging into their history and enjoying the comics, perhaps even more than the cartoon, makes you a Pabst drinker. Absolutely disgraceful..... shame. shame. shaemmmmmmhmmhmm pabst. grgrgrlgrglhhh i have all the comics!!!
Bob, Eggman is the name given to Sonic's nemesis by every game made this century. I never even imagined that he went by any other name until I saw some people get their panties in a bunch over it online.
Seriously, get over it.
Seriously, get over it.
Sometimes i'm kinda sad i was born during the middle of the Nineties. I mean, they seem like a pretty amazing time but i was too young to really enjoy them. Now, where am i going with this:
The first Sonic games i really played were the Sonic Adventure ones. So Sonic, to me, was always about melodramatic storylines involving cartoon animals, tons of side characters,horrible voiceacting and, among other things, an evil scientist calles "Dr. Eggman". Now, i knew that he was calles "Dr. Robotnik" at some point because i remembered the AoSTH cartoon from when i was younger but that wasn't "my" version of Sonic. It's the same with Mario: There's just no way i could ever convince myself he's from Brookly. I mean, don't get me wrong, his italian accent doesn't make any sense either but that's just the character i grew up with.
The first Sonic games i really played were the Sonic Adventure ones. So Sonic, to me, was always about melodramatic storylines involving cartoon animals, tons of side characters,horrible voiceacting and, among other things, an evil scientist calles "Dr. Eggman". Now, i knew that he was calles "Dr. Robotnik" at some point because i remembered the AoSTH cartoon from when i was younger but that wasn't "my" version of Sonic. It's the same with Mario: There's just no way i could ever convince myself he's from Brookly. I mean, don't get me wrong, his italian accent doesn't make any sense either but that's just the character i grew up with.
Bob once said that if your response to anything results in a small book, you're doing it wrong. However, I have a lot to say on the matter.
If I were in charge of the Turtles franchise, I'd make a few changes, maybe even some drastic ones. Though I don't think they'd be for the worse.
First, respect the audience. The Turtles have been around for more than 25 years, so we should pay homage and respect the audience that have been following the Turtles in one form or another since they were children themselves. Poke at the nostalgic nere. I wouldn't keep it as corny as the 80's-90's Saturday morning cartoon, but I wouldn't sling profanity around like a Tarintino film. I wouldn't be afraid to draw on subject matter for older audiences, like fearful scenarios, risk of death, or touching on the themes, strengths, and weaknesses of each turtle.
There was a particularly memorable line from the CG movie, Splinter is talking to Donatello. "This home has become like an empty shell. Each of your brothers have strengths and weaknesses. You must learn to be strong when they are weak. For if you cannot learn this, then our family is lost." I'd have the story expose and touch on each weakness.
I would do my best to recreate the art style from the first movie. I'd love to see more characters like Rocksteady & Bebop, Baxter, or Krang depicted in that style. They'd have to be depicted practically. The practical effects always have more weight to them than CG(unless the whole movie was CG). Think back to Farscape and how much more threatening Scarrans looked, or the early Alien movies before they became all swift and CG. Pan's Labyrinth and the Hellboy series are both better off for using practical effects, or at least heavily reducing the dependance on CG. There's some pretty awesome TMNT fan films out there that use practical effects. Look up "Fight the Foot" and "Casey Jones."
Leo's the leader, Mikey's the goofy one, Don's the "smart" one(whatever that means), but they're each more than one-dimensional stereotypes. Raphael was a smart-alec more than anything in the 1990s cartoon. In every other incarnation, he's a complete hothead!
Donatello is smart. However I wouldn't want to make him some super smart genius that can hack a computer blindfolded. I think that's taking it too far. I'd expect him to be about as smart as he was in the first movie when he and Casey were playing around under the hood of a truck. The computer expertise he demonstrated in Secret of the Ooze is questionable. He reads a lot, and learns. I'd want to emphasize the curiousity of his character, and his tinkering nature to understand how things work. He's always thinking, always wanting to know more, almost with a child-like wonder and vulnerability. His dialogue would reflect that, along with the decoration of his part of the sewer lair(and the occasionally totally dorky one-liner).
Michaelangelo is probably the most athletic of the bunch. Raphael is usually brutally strong, but Mike is more of an all around athlete. Yeah, they're all ninjas, so they all have a certain minimum amount of agility, but Mike more than the others. Heck, nunchuku are an aerobic exercise. There's never been a version where he's not the youngest, and his maturity reflects that. It was surprising in the CG movie that he was one of the two youngest that actually got a job to help support everyone. Maybe there's more to him than the others expect of him? He's a very social creature, he absolutely devouers pop culture. Out of anyone, he's probably the most troubled with his place down below in the sewers. Since he's so social, he wants to meet people. His active, athletic lifestyle and boundless energy, I believe, are partially reflective of this. He's also incredibly close to Don more than the others. This is seen in the movies how he chats with him while they fight.
Raphael usually has those anger control issues. Though I haven't ever seen a version where he struggles with it and tries to resolve it. Has he ever looked inward, admitted it to himself and tried to overcome his violent impulses? Okay, he's a ninja, and a turtle, so he's incredibly violent by nature. All his brothers seem to have control over their power. He's incredibly protective of his brothers. He seems to love Mike the most, he's the most "big-brothery" around him what with the noogies and gags. He really can't be the same around Leo as he is with Mike. I don't know if he's even able to relate to Don or if they're too different. So, Mike is his 'best friend.' if any of his brothers is in trouble, he'll go berserk. But the best and fastest way would be to threaten Mike.
Leonardo would be difficult. He's the leader, the responsible one. Perhaps to a fault? What does the stress do to him? Is he close with any of his brothers? Can he afford to be? Does he feel isolation in being the oldest? How does he handle internally the constant struggle with Raphael? I imagine Leo would enjoy reading history and military books and going to museums in his off days when he's not training.
I'd redesign Slash, make him more "Starkiller"esque. Slash is a twisted mirror image of the Ninja Turtles. He's a possible alternate version of them, raised by Shredder. He's like Bass compared to Mega Man. Slash has always been a representation of brawn over brain. Yes, they all know martial arts, so that requires a certain intelligence, but Splinter emphasizes the need to train the mind as well as the body. Do you think Shredder did the same? Could Slash's undiciplined mind even be jealous of the Turtles? Does Slash recognize the similar natures of himself and them? Does he know what he's missing or what he could have had? Does that drive him to hate them? Would defeating the Turtles mean that all the abuse he suffered at the hands of Shredder mean that it was all worth it? It would show that he could do something that some "other" ninja turtles couldn't. It would prove him superior. And I'd keep his Binky.
I'd like to explore themes about finding your place. They're teenagers, so they naturally feel like outcasts. It doesn't help much that they're mutants and live in a sewer. I'd like to explore what it means when you don't have a home or a place to call your own. By the end, I'd like to reconcile those feelings by accepting they are who they are. Even in a gallery of other mutant creatures like themselves, like Rocksteady, Bebop, Tokka, Rhazar, Slash, and whatever else the Shredder can send at them, those mutants can show the Turtles what they Can be if they were NOT who they are. They could be accepted, have a place, if only they gave up and stopped fighting. But would that sit well with them? NO, and that would show them who they are. That would conclude the theme of 'finding your place' and 'your own kind.'
I've never liked that phrase, 'your own kind.' It's usually some sort of divider, some "us vs them" label used to hate based on religion, skin color, or the place of origin. I like how the theme was explored in Mega Man X when Sigma asks X why he chose to fight 'his own kind.'
A second major theme I'd like to explore is what it means to have a brother. It wouldn't be anything dopey like, "I have to, because he's my brother." Nothing like, "becaus he's my brother." That's a cop out. Like the villain in Die Hard with a Vengance. He hated his brother, Alan Rickman's character deserved to get thrown out a window. He said something like, "not liking your brother isn't the same as not caring when some **** throws him out a window." That's a bad reason. Gene Roddenberry absolutely hated Star Trek V, but I loved it. It showed the family relationship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. I especially love the exchange at the end, "I lost a brother once. I was lucky I got him back." "I thought you said men like us don't have families." "I was wrong." Maybe not so much the lines, but the moment it created. Show somewhere in the TMNT story, a time when each turtle puts themselves on the line for each other, show the personal fear, but then the trust in each other. One in trouble, all in trouble. No matter what, they give their all for each other. That's not "because" they're brothers, it's what MAKES them brothers.
A "review" of what the next Ninja Turtles game should be.
http://thebestgameneverplayed.wordpress.com/2011/07/16/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/
"Fight the Foot" an excellent TMNT live-action short
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldC6krN7PNM
"Casey Jones" trailer, full version viewable online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UbqLOLwuE
Yes, people still care. They care a lot.
If I were in charge of the Turtles franchise, I'd make a few changes, maybe even some drastic ones. Though I don't think they'd be for the worse.
First, respect the audience. The Turtles have been around for more than 25 years, so we should pay homage and respect the audience that have been following the Turtles in one form or another since they were children themselves. Poke at the nostalgic nere. I wouldn't keep it as corny as the 80's-90's Saturday morning cartoon, but I wouldn't sling profanity around like a Tarintino film. I wouldn't be afraid to draw on subject matter for older audiences, like fearful scenarios, risk of death, or touching on the themes, strengths, and weaknesses of each turtle.
There was a particularly memorable line from the CG movie, Splinter is talking to Donatello. "This home has become like an empty shell. Each of your brothers have strengths and weaknesses. You must learn to be strong when they are weak. For if you cannot learn this, then our family is lost." I'd have the story expose and touch on each weakness.
I would do my best to recreate the art style from the first movie. I'd love to see more characters like Rocksteady & Bebop, Baxter, or Krang depicted in that style. They'd have to be depicted practically. The practical effects always have more weight to them than CG(unless the whole movie was CG). Think back to Farscape and how much more threatening Scarrans looked, or the early Alien movies before they became all swift and CG. Pan's Labyrinth and the Hellboy series are both better off for using practical effects, or at least heavily reducing the dependance on CG. There's some pretty awesome TMNT fan films out there that use practical effects. Look up "Fight the Foot" and "Casey Jones."
Leo's the leader, Mikey's the goofy one, Don's the "smart" one(whatever that means), but they're each more than one-dimensional stereotypes. Raphael was a smart-alec more than anything in the 1990s cartoon. In every other incarnation, he's a complete hothead!
Donatello is smart. However I wouldn't want to make him some super smart genius that can hack a computer blindfolded. I think that's taking it too far. I'd expect him to be about as smart as he was in the first movie when he and Casey were playing around under the hood of a truck. The computer expertise he demonstrated in Secret of the Ooze is questionable. He reads a lot, and learns. I'd want to emphasize the curiousity of his character, and his tinkering nature to understand how things work. He's always thinking, always wanting to know more, almost with a child-like wonder and vulnerability. His dialogue would reflect that, along with the decoration of his part of the sewer lair(and the occasionally totally dorky one-liner).
Michaelangelo is probably the most athletic of the bunch. Raphael is usually brutally strong, but Mike is more of an all around athlete. Yeah, they're all ninjas, so they all have a certain minimum amount of agility, but Mike more than the others. Heck, nunchuku are an aerobic exercise. There's never been a version where he's not the youngest, and his maturity reflects that. It was surprising in the CG movie that he was one of the two youngest that actually got a job to help support everyone. Maybe there's more to him than the others expect of him? He's a very social creature, he absolutely devouers pop culture. Out of anyone, he's probably the most troubled with his place down below in the sewers. Since he's so social, he wants to meet people. His active, athletic lifestyle and boundless energy, I believe, are partially reflective of this. He's also incredibly close to Don more than the others. This is seen in the movies how he chats with him while they fight.
Raphael usually has those anger control issues. Though I haven't ever seen a version where he struggles with it and tries to resolve it. Has he ever looked inward, admitted it to himself and tried to overcome his violent impulses? Okay, he's a ninja, and a turtle, so he's incredibly violent by nature. All his brothers seem to have control over their power. He's incredibly protective of his brothers. He seems to love Mike the most, he's the most "big-brothery" around him what with the noogies and gags. He really can't be the same around Leo as he is with Mike. I don't know if he's even able to relate to Don or if they're too different. So, Mike is his 'best friend.' if any of his brothers is in trouble, he'll go berserk. But the best and fastest way would be to threaten Mike.
Leonardo would be difficult. He's the leader, the responsible one. Perhaps to a fault? What does the stress do to him? Is he close with any of his brothers? Can he afford to be? Does he feel isolation in being the oldest? How does he handle internally the constant struggle with Raphael? I imagine Leo would enjoy reading history and military books and going to museums in his off days when he's not training.
I'd redesign Slash, make him more "Starkiller"esque. Slash is a twisted mirror image of the Ninja Turtles. He's a possible alternate version of them, raised by Shredder. He's like Bass compared to Mega Man. Slash has always been a representation of brawn over brain. Yes, they all know martial arts, so that requires a certain intelligence, but Splinter emphasizes the need to train the mind as well as the body. Do you think Shredder did the same? Could Slash's undiciplined mind even be jealous of the Turtles? Does Slash recognize the similar natures of himself and them? Does he know what he's missing or what he could have had? Does that drive him to hate them? Would defeating the Turtles mean that all the abuse he suffered at the hands of Shredder mean that it was all worth it? It would show that he could do something that some "other" ninja turtles couldn't. It would prove him superior. And I'd keep his Binky.
I'd like to explore themes about finding your place. They're teenagers, so they naturally feel like outcasts. It doesn't help much that they're mutants and live in a sewer. I'd like to explore what it means when you don't have a home or a place to call your own. By the end, I'd like to reconcile those feelings by accepting they are who they are. Even in a gallery of other mutant creatures like themselves, like Rocksteady, Bebop, Tokka, Rhazar, Slash, and whatever else the Shredder can send at them, those mutants can show the Turtles what they Can be if they were NOT who they are. They could be accepted, have a place, if only they gave up and stopped fighting. But would that sit well with them? NO, and that would show them who they are. That would conclude the theme of 'finding your place' and 'your own kind.'
I've never liked that phrase, 'your own kind.' It's usually some sort of divider, some "us vs them" label used to hate based on religion, skin color, or the place of origin. I like how the theme was explored in Mega Man X when Sigma asks X why he chose to fight 'his own kind.'
A second major theme I'd like to explore is what it means to have a brother. It wouldn't be anything dopey like, "I have to, because he's my brother." Nothing like, "becaus he's my brother." That's a cop out. Like the villain in Die Hard with a Vengance. He hated his brother, Alan Rickman's character deserved to get thrown out a window. He said something like, "not liking your brother isn't the same as not caring when some **** throws him out a window." That's a bad reason. Gene Roddenberry absolutely hated Star Trek V, but I loved it. It showed the family relationship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. I especially love the exchange at the end, "I lost a brother once. I was lucky I got him back." "I thought you said men like us don't have families." "I was wrong." Maybe not so much the lines, but the moment it created. Show somewhere in the TMNT story, a time when each turtle puts themselves on the line for each other, show the personal fear, but then the trust in each other. One in trouble, all in trouble. No matter what, they give their all for each other. That's not "because" they're brothers, it's what MAKES them brothers.
A "review" of what the next Ninja Turtles game should be.
http://thebestgameneverplayed.wordpress.com/2011/07/16/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/
"Fight the Foot" an excellent TMNT live-action short
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldC6krN7PNM
"Casey Jones" trailer, full version viewable online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UbqLOLwuE
Yes, people still care. They care a lot.
i don't know if this has even entered into the discussion....but mirage sold the turtles (almost outright, i think they kept the right to publish a few books a year under their own imprint) to nickelodeon....but since then idw has begun a violent, gritty retcon....with peter laird who sold his stake in the turtles in order to buy heavy metal a decade ago. so maybe ninja turtles and tmnt are splitting into two properties....ironically keeping the "teenage mutant" for the stuff aimed at the older audience...just a thought...
that campy atrocity invented my favorite batman villian? hows that for perspective...
but yeah, i really dont care that they are changing the TMNT mythos, my concern is that it is michael bay doing it. these kind of changes are usually indicative of a hack director trying to impose his shitty ideas over a marketable brand name, so it will sell no matter how awful it is. no one ever really cried about changing the squid alien in watchmen because it was actual artistic reasons and worked for the movie, some would even say better than the squid alien.
but you have to understand bob, we nerds are under relentless assault as our interests become more socially acceptable and asshats in suits figure that isnt good enough and want to rewrite everything to make it more marketable. i can understand being a bit overly-defensive in that situation.
but yeah, i really dont care that they are changing the TMNT mythos, my concern is that it is michael bay doing it. these kind of changes are usually indicative of a hack director trying to impose his shitty ideas over a marketable brand name, so it will sell no matter how awful it is. no one ever really cried about changing the squid alien in watchmen because it was actual artistic reasons and worked for the movie, some would even say better than the squid alien.
but you have to understand bob, we nerds are under relentless assault as our interests become more socially acceptable and asshats in suits figure that isnt good enough and want to rewrite everything to make it more marketable. i can understand being a bit overly-defensive in that situation.