The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

[TAdamson]

I would like to cover a claim asserted in this video. Male body image not effecting job hiring. I am a large man,---- blah bing bling blah

Do you not understand that this "non obese" policy also applies to women?

"I'm a fat man and I was discriminated against."

Does not compare to:

"I'm a woman and they didn't hire me because I might claim maternity leave."

Or:

"I'm a woman and in every workplace I'm judged by my appearance even though I'm not obese."

Or:

"I'm a woman and because I'm attractive I get grouped by my manager but I can't complain because I won't get promoted."

There's a simple solution to your problem. It's called a tread-mill.

Women don't have that option. Unless their only problem is is obesity.

 

[itsthesheppy]

I would like to cover a claim asserted in this video. Male body image not effecting job hiring. I am a large man, actually I'm just fat, anyway I graduated from college with a high level degree and it has taken me three years to find a reliable job. The reason I attribute this to my appearance is that during that time I had several interviews and none of them ever called me back. Now I know expecting calls from all of them is unrealistic when the economy is slow but all of them ignoring me is a rather clear message.

I'm a white male, 5'10" and 150 lbs and a snappy dresser. I get calls back from maybe 10% of all places I've ever applied to. The economy is very weak.

That being said, discrimination against overweight people is indeed a problem, and is indeed unfair. And pop culture does not treat overweight people very kindly either.

So does it mean I can make a huge stink about how it isn't right that my appearance makes a difference?

Yes. Discrimination based on appearance alone is against the law in many (if not all) states. Even where it is not illegal, it is immoral.

No I can not because the inevitable reply is that your a man so you have no real claim to being discriminated against.

I have not seen this claim made by anyone, and I will personally not support it. It is very possible for men to be discriminated against. the point Moviebob was making, however, is that men are less likely to face discrimination.

This world apparently can never let people live in their own way, everyone wants control over what they find offensive so they can destroy it. Am I the only person that has had enough of this cycle? I understand that women feel objectified by the images presented by games but there is no law stating that they must play the games they find offensive, so why should there be a genre wide move to force me to play games that follow their ideals.

You do a strange 180 here, pointing out how you are discriminated against because of you're overweight, but then you turn around and point out that everyone should just have a 'live and let live' attitude when it comes to objectification that doesn't necessarily affect you. The same argument could be made to turn against you: 'But there's no law that says companies should have to hire fat people if they don't want to! You should lose weight if you want a job!'

There should be a law preventing that. That's the society I want to live in; one where nobody has to feel singled out or reduced to less than fully human. I'm sorry if you feel it is a right you possess to enjoy media that objectifies and marginalizes women. There are those of us who believe that is detrimental to our society and we want to fix it. Some of us need to be dragged towards a more inclusive society kicking and screaming - so be it, if it comes to it.

 

[lord.jeff]

ITT

Why does she need all that money? It's not just women who are stereotyped, so like, why doesn't she do something else with her time? I mean, she's probably a slut anyway.

The joke is, she no longer gives a fuck. You know what the benefit of crowd sourcing your funding is? You're not beholden to people who don't like the things you make. I don't watch her videos. I didn't donate. But, this thread reeks of self entitlement. Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

The funny thing is, your last line, is what I like to tell people who complain about female stereotypes in games, and possibly what she should be doing with that money


just a thought eh?

The answer to that is pretty simple, most people don't have the skill or resources to make a game, though she does have enough money now that working with an indie team is a possibility.

Or, you know, making a really badass video series, with a higher budget. Funny how nobody seems to be suggesting that...

I don't think anyone's suggesting that because that's the current standing plan for the money, the kickstater was made to help finance the web show and she's way beyond what she needs for that.

 

[TAdamson]

There's a simple solution to your problem. It's called a tread-mill.

Let's not be crass, shall we?

Well he's complaining about discrimination because he's fat.

"Male body image not effecting job hiring. I am a large man, actually I'm just fat, anyway I graduated from college with a high level degree and it has taken me three years to find a reliable job. The reason I attribute this to my appearance is that during that time I had several interviews and none of them ever called me back. "

What does that have to do with being male? If he really thinks it is about body shape then why does he infer that it is something to do with male body image?

Females of the same body type as him would have the same problem with the additional (possible) disadvantage of being female.

To both sexes with this problem: There's an obvious solution. Diet + Exercise. This is not discrimination.

 

[Darkmantle]

ITT

Why does she need all that money? It's not just women who are stereotyped, so like, why doesn't she do something else with her time? I mean, she's probably a slut anyway.

The joke is, she no longer gives a fuck. You know what the benefit of crowd sourcing your funding is? You're not beholden to people who don't like the things you make. I don't watch her videos. I didn't donate. But, this thread reeks of self entitlement. Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

The funny thing is, your last line, is what I like to tell people who complain about female stereotypes in games, and possibly what she should be doing with that money


just a thought eh?

Do movie critics need to make movies to critique movies?

And $150,000 while it may be enough to fund a couple of programmers for a year is hardly enough to make a game.

What she has been given tha money to do is critique. Unless you donated under the supposition that she would do something else that is all you can really expect.

The fact that the internet has given her a volume of ammunition further to critique is something that the community should subject to serious introspection.

Wow you really dialed it back from the post I got in my inbox, bravo. The problem here is that buddy I quoted is saying (and I quote, all pun intended) "Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?" But the problem is that SHE is the one abstractly telling game designers what to do. So it's a hypocritical argument. I don't think anything along the lines of you have to make movies to criticise them, but that guys reasoning is terribly flawed.

Although honestly, after lara croft thing that's being going on, as a game designer I would be severely tempted to throw up arms and say, "you do it then".

 

[Darkmantle]

ITT

Why does she need all that money? It's not just women who are stereotyped, so like, why doesn't she do something else with her time? I mean, she's probably a slut anyway.

The joke is, she no longer gives a fuck. You know what the benefit of crowd sourcing your funding is? You're not beholden to people who don't like the things you make. I don't watch her videos. I didn't donate. But, this thread reeks of self entitlement. Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

The funny thing is, your last line, is what I like to tell people who complain about female stereotypes in games, and possibly what she should be doing with that money


just a thought eh?

The answer to that is pretty simple, most people don't have the skill or resources to make a game, though she does have enough money now that working with an indie team is a possibility.

then the answer to him telling people to

Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

is simple, most people don't have the time or money to do it, so we should be free to criticise her.

I didn't make my post in a void guys.

 

[Darkmantle]

Or, you know, making a really badass video series, with a higher budget. Funny how nobody seems to be suggesting that...

What really shows what nonsense this is, is that people here are all too fucking delighted to give her unsolicited advice on how to spend money, but not a single one of them will being offering up their suggestions about how to use the excess money from this. [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/297519465/the-icarus-deception-why-make-art-new-from-seth-go?ref=live] Not a peep. Most of them in fact probably couldn't be bothered to give a fuck or will perhaps offer Seth a hearty pat on the back for doing such a good job.

which is what she's doing to game designers isn't she? :/ that's all I was saying.

 

[Malgorath]

Bob makes some good points, but I still think that this is an issue that is known about and someone shouldn't be getting hundreds of thousands of dollars to make a few videos telling us what we already know. If I thought she could actually help the problem by doing this, it'd be great, but she's pretty much just pointing at it and saying what we already know: "This is bad." I think people should work to fix this, but not in this way, as I feel like she just isn't doing any real work towards the goal of stopping the problem.

 

[itsthesheppy]

ITT

Why does she need all that money? It's not just women who are stereotyped, so like, why doesn't she do something else with her time? I mean, she's probably a slut anyway.

The joke is, she no longer gives a fuck. You know what the benefit of crowd sourcing your funding is? You're not beholden to people who don't like the things you make. I don't watch her videos. I didn't donate. But, this thread reeks of self entitlement. Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

The funny thing is, your last line, is what I like to tell people who complain about female stereotypes in games, and possibly what she should be doing with that money


just a thought eh?

The answer to that is pretty simple, most people don't have the skill or resources to make a game, though she does have enough money now that working with an indie team is a possibility.

Or, you know, making a really badass video series, with a higher budget. Funny how nobody seems to be suggesting that...

I don't think anyone's suggesting that because that's the current standing plan for the money, the kickstater was made to help finance the web show and she's way beyond what she needs for that.

How do you know how much she needs, exactly? I mean she could reasonably spend that money making a really kickass video series, right?

 

[itsthesheppy]

How do you know how much she needs, exactly? I mean she could reasonably spend that money making a really kickass video series, right?

I doubt it, she's basically clueless. She needs to give the money to someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of embarassing herself over and over again.

Thanks to Poe's Law, I have no idea if you're being facetious or not. Because I'd prefer to think the better of people despite reasons to the contrary, I'll assume that was satire.

 

[TAdamson]

ITT

Why does she need all that money? It's not just women who are stereotyped, so like, why doesn't she do something else with her time? I mean, she's probably a slut anyway.

The joke is, she no longer gives a fuck. You know what the benefit of crowd sourcing your funding is? You're not beholden to people who don't like the things you make. I don't watch her videos. I didn't donate. But, this thread reeks of self entitlement. Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

The funny thing is, your last line, is what I like to tell people who complain about female stereotypes in games, and possibly what she should be doing with that money


just a thought eh?

Do movie critics need to make movies to critique movies?

And $150,000 while it may be enough to fund a couple of programmers for a year is hardly enough to make a game.

What she has been given tha money to do is critique. Unless you donated under the supposition that she would do something else that is all you can really expect.

The fact that the internet has given her a volume of ammunition further to critique is something that the community should subject to serious introspection.

Wow you really dialed it back from the post I got in my inbox, bravo. The problem here is that buddy I quoted is saying (and I quote, all pun intended) "Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?" But the problem is that SHE is the one abstractly telling game designers what to do. So it's a hypocritical argument. I don't think anything along the lines of you have to make movies to criticise them, but that guys reasoning is terribly flawed.

Although honestly, after lara croft thing that's being going on, as a game designer I would be severely tempted to throw up arms and say, "you do it then".

Yeah I changed my argument a bit. I've learned to dial down my outrage lest it be misconstrued that I'm building a "straw man" just because I challenge ALL previous discussion topics that have come before.

I'm going to make this point ----> What is wrong with her abstractly telling game designers what to do?


A) She has the right to her opinion.
B) She has the right to free speech.
C) Game makers have the right to ignore her/their/opinion.
D) Game makers have the right to free speech.


I cannot imagine that Anita Sarkeesian would have any effect on video games any more than Jim Sterling or Susan Arndt or even Yahtzee Crowshaw. So how is her (Hard Feminist opinion that it is.) different from any other reviewer?

Except for the fact that she can be called an entitled Jewish princess **** that should be raped....

(Note: No straw men here. I'm not suggesting that you would do that - but I am suggesting that you are subjecting this reviewer to deeper scrutiny than usual for whatever reason.)

 

[TAdamson]

snip

Men are also judged by their appearance.

Hmmm.

Are sixty year old women judged by the same standard as sixty year old men?

What about similar standards for 40 year olds?

Now what about 30 year olds?

Are men judged by the same standard for their age?

Do get back to me on that one.

 

[TAdamson]

How do you know how much she needs, exactly? I mean she could reasonably spend that money making a really kickass video series, right?

I doubt it, she's basically clueless. She needs to give the money to someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of embarassing herself over and over again.

Yes, because those that liked her videos before this whole situation started to the tune of $24,000 are totally ignorant.


Don't they know that this Master of Social Studies doesn't know what she is talking about? It's outrageous that a person with a Graduate Degree dares talk about things that interest people on the internet and receives money.

What an embarrassment for feminism that a feminist would want to broadcast feminist musings on the internet. Especially that clueless ***** with a Graduate Degree.

 

[lord.jeff]

ITT

Why does she need all that money? It's not just women who are stereotyped, so like, why doesn't she do something else with her time? I mean, she's probably a slut anyway.

The joke is, she no longer gives a fuck. You know what the benefit of crowd sourcing your funding is? You're not beholden to people who don't like the things you make. I don't watch her videos. I didn't donate. But, this thread reeks of self entitlement. Instead of abstractly telling her what she should be doing, why not go fucking make something yourself?

The funny thing is, your last line, is what I like to tell people who complain about female stereotypes in games, and possibly what she should be doing with that money


just a thought eh?

The answer to that is pretty simple, most people don't have the skill or resources to make a game, though she does have enough money now that working with an indie team is a possibility.

Or, you know, making a really badass video series, with a higher budget. Funny how nobody seems to be suggesting that...

I don't think anyone's suggesting that because that's the current standing plan for the money, the kickstater was made to help finance the web show and she's way beyond what she needs for that.

How do you know how much she needs, exactly? I mean she could reasonably spend that money making a really kickass video series, right?

$6000 according to her original goal, if I was in her position I'd probably put $20000 into a set and equipment $30000 to live on so I could dedicate myself to my goals without a job in the way, 25000 on guest speaker and that's only if I'm doing them regularly, and $40000 web master, hosting, and advertising, that's a quick ideal budget that still only comes to 115000, which leaves around a 100000 to spend and well it's possible to spend that on the site and show, it'd be wasteful and she could help her cause in better ways like an indie game or a charity.