The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

[medv4380]

The entire sexism argument should be flatly ignored.

No progress is ever made and when push comes to shiv the only people left participating are the Women who want all me to die and the Men who think of women as Objects.

The biggest problem with the entire argument is that it is too subjective. The latest Sex Symbol in Japan is Nintendos Office Lady in their ads. Cultural boundaries are so erratic on what would be sexually exploitative of women would be anything and everything.

The ultimate result of the argument isn't any good ether.

Eastern Orthodox Catholics/Russian Catholics view Hair as Sexually Seductive. Therefor, women must wear head scarves.

Islam, any skin showing on a woman is too Sexually Seductive in public. Therefor, women must be fully clothed from head to toe.

Your argument ultimately falls to pieces, because you offer no valid solution, and can be pared down to Attractive Women Shouldn't Be Seen.

So which world do you want?

Do you want a world where women are free to exist as whatever tramp, harlot, stripper, engineer, teacher, or scientist they want to be?

Or do you want a world where women are not to be seen in public?

The path you're presenting Bob is the path that leads to women not being seen even though I know your intention is not to go that far. Your logic is the very logic that has been used to Oppress women the most.

 

[ShinobiJedi42]

Best female video game character is Alyx Vance by the way.

False. How dare you find Alyx Vance better than GLaDOS! Vance is a close second though

However, an argument can be made that GLaDOS is just as much an objectification of women as Big Boob Panty Ninja 12. Many people look at her and see a woman in bondage hanging upside down.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

I think the problem with this specific case though is if she was actually as much of a champion of women's issues as she claims to be, why is she focusing on some imaginary woman with big boobs rather than the thousands of real woman who actually fall victim to outdated, sexist cultural ideals in certain parts of the globe every day. I don't see many people in our sheltered little existence being their champion right about now. So, actually, I'd say in relative terms this isn't an issue that really "needs" to be addressed like it's a matter of urgency, and it certainly doesn't require people to throw money at her which she will do nothing with.

The trouble is, while feminism is no doubt an admirable movement that, at it's heart, seeks a fairer society for all, the doesn't stop a lot of feminists from being idiots, in the same way that a lot of people period are idiots. However, in these enlightened times it seems you are unable to call someone who identifies themselves as feminist an idiot, without you being labeled a chauvinist pig, which is a large part what has led to the angry backlash against feminism in general. Does that make the comments on Youtube justified? Hell no, but who honestly cares about what Youtube trolls say anymore. If their opinions aren't worth noting then why are you acting like their petty insults are a big deal? They can spout all the unpleasant sexist comments they like and it will mean nothing because people know by now not to listen to Youtube.

Also, is it just me, or does her whining in her video's about how it's not fair that men get all the 'exciting' jobs in media and entertainment to be painfully immature. In the real world, these 'exciting' jobs, like fire-fighters and soldiers, get people killed, maimed for life and psychologically scarred. I'm not saying there shouldn't be more equality, quite the opposite, but she devolves the argument to 'we want to do all the cool shit too!' when, in the real world, the cool shit isn't cool at all, it's as messy as it comes. That argument, coming from a supposedly mature adult, really grates with me. I want equality, but on the basis of equality itself, not because it 'isn't fair' that more women don't get killed on battlefields or in burning buildings.

 

[Kargathia]

Pointing out examples of "sexist" characters in media is easy and pointless. Rather than focusing our energy on trying to make our media somehow more fair and honest (which is in and of itself a laugh, just look at films and TV series) we should focus our attention on how women are actually treated, you know, the stuff that actually matters.

This specific woman is treated with a deluge of mysogyny, anti-semitism, racism, and plain insults that beggars belief - all for proposing to make a series of videos on a tendency in video gaming that really is in dire need of an overhaul.

Even by your own arguments there is something preeetttty wrong here.

 

[Dryk]

Seconded! This and Jim Sterling's article on the subject: http://www.gamefront.com/misandry-in-videogames-oh-grow-the-f-k-up/ really make me feel less disgusted with the internet

Read the comments, the disgust will come pouring back

 

[Xanthious]

I noticed Bob conveniently ignored that men are indeed objectified in much the same way as women in things like trashy romance novels, daytime soap operas, TV shows like Desperate Housewives and Gray's Anatomy, or even movies like Twilight and I could go on. Last I checked there aren't hordes of men getting in line to buy soap boxes to stand on while they get all indignant on the internet about that though.

The thing is that sex sells. If you have a product aimed largely at men having scantily clad women in the mix somewhere is probably going to help you move product. Similarly if you your product is for women then having men with bodies that look to be chiseled of stone will probably be good for the bottom line. This isn't some huge social issue plaguing society, or even geek culture. It happens on both sides of the fence every single day.

 

[Blade_125]

Very well said Bob. Even though I never really understand what this segment is for, you do on occasion have a good thought provoking topic.

For everyone else, i would suggest watching a movie called Miss Representation, which doesn't limit itself to video games but shows how women are treated in all forms of media, and how men don't really have it much better because they are pushed to behave as the tough no feeling man which makes it hard to empathize and be a decent person.

I have always supported equality for all, but after watching this movie I realized how I had been raised to be the stong, emotionally dead type. I won't even give my nephew a hug, but instead had to give him a high 5.

Anyone who thinks women are treated equal, or even worse are one of those misandry is a big problem people, then are completely deluging themselves. It is nice to see people like Bob making statments like in this episode.

 

[esperandote]

Kof has some female portrait variety

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Wait, that's a dude

I know there's still Mai, Shermie, Blue Mary and Angel

 

[Zayle79]

I've actually used the "it's not a gender specific issue, everyone is made to look prettier in games" argument in the past. Not that I'm in any way opposed to a better representation of women in pop-culture or anti-feminist in any way, it just seemed to make a certain amount of sense to me at the time. I'll admit, it's not nearly as strong of an argument as I thought it was.

Still, I don't think it's entirely invalid either. Problematic tropes and characters based on sketchy ideals, physical or otherwise, are worth raising an eyebrow at regardless of what gender they affect.

That's certainly true, but totally unrelated to Sarkeesian's project. The premise of her series isn't inherently flawed just because there's also a related issue that she hasn't mentioned.

 

[Ramzal]

Why is this subject even that important anyways? Needless to say, if you are dumb enough to buy a game because of big boobie girls on the front, you are about as equal of a fool if you avoid a great game because a fake woman's giant chest. Cut the special attention play, people. If you are upset at a fake woman's rack or body structure, clearly your priorities in life are screwed. And if it really makes a woman upset that their body is out of proportion and (This is a sheer minority for an example I am giving in 3...2....1...) if you are among a group of women who feel like you are being objectified because you cannot measure up--then by all means, you may just have self confidence issues.

 

[Katya Topolkaraeva]

aww at first i thought this would be an episode about people wanting Lara Croft to get raped... ah well. BTW, way to be sexist Bob, i am a female and i watch your show, silly to assume that someone watching your show is a male by saying these male bodies are for "YOU" not THEM ie the females. blah! And the truth is, females really rather like playing female characters that are sexy, i know i do, in the same way that males like playing male characters that are buff.

 

[Rednog]

I still face-palm when I hear talk about the whole Feminist Frequency nonsense. Why is every "journalist" so quick to defend her and demonize the reaction against her? She went and spammed places like 4 chan to get that reaction. It's like saying that hornet's are evil and to prove your point you take a baseball bat to a hornet's nest. And when the hornet's sting you, you say "see! look! the hornet's stung me, they're evil!"
Or how about another example, take a Koran to a radical Muslim country, go to a busy street take a dump on it and set it on fire and then act shocked when someone puts a brick through your skull.
She purposefully stirred up this controversy and goaded idiots into the reaction and then pretended to be a victim.

And why isn't anyone addressing the insult to gamers as a whole? We criticize movies and television for having a mindset that games are still in the 80's with high scores and 8-bit sounds. And when we see people just mindlessly bashing controllers we roll our eyes. Yet when she's like oh I'm a gamer and I understand this topic, but she's doing the same mindless mashing pretending to play a videogame (on a controller that's clearly off) we don't bat an eyelid? That's pretty insulting to the audience to think that they're so stupid they won't notice that you're faking it.

And yes before anyone goes "oh but there are much bigger problems with this controversy," I know. But if she can complain about something like Legos when there are huge human rights violations in the world in regards to females, I can complain about parts of her nonsense.

 

[Blade_125]

The entire sexism argument should be flatly ignored.

No progress is ever made and when push comes to shiv the only people left participating are the Women who want all me to die and the Men who think of women as Objects.

The biggest problem with the entire argument is that it is too subjective. The latest Sex Symbol in Japan is Nintendos Office Lady in their ads. Cultural boundaries are so erratic on what would be sexually exploitative of women would be anything and everything.

The ultimate result of the argument isn't any good ether.

Eastern Orthodox Catholics/Russian Catholics view Hair as Sexually Seductive. Therefor, women must wear head scarves.

Islam, any skin showing on a woman is too Sexually Seductive in public. Therefor, women must be fully clothed from head to toe.

Your argument ultimately falls to pieces, because you offer no valid solution, and can be pared down to Attractive Women Shouldn't Be Seen.

So which world do you want?

Do you want a world where women are free to exist as whatever tramp, harlot, stripper, engineer, teacher, or scientist they want to be?

Or do you want a world where women are not to be seen in public?

The path you're presenting Bob is the path that leads to women not being seen even though I know your intention is not to go that far. Your logic is the very logic that has been used to Oppress women the most.

How about a world were men can be trusted no to rape a woman because they see some hair or ankle and women are judged by the skill they bring to the job/issue/whatever and nothing else.

In order for that to happen you need to be aware of the problem. There is no "here is the way to fix this problem" solution aside frmo education and changing the perspectice of people. Bob's episode is a great example of this solution, so I completely disagree with your statement. If one young boy starts to question why he thinks less of women then this video was a success.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Valid points all around. I would say that appearance might count for men in the workplace more than Bob states it does, but it certainly doesn't happen anywhere near as much as it would for women so the viewpoint definitely stands.

Now I really want to play Big Boob Panty Ninja 12.

Me too.. but I didn't play 10 and so was kind of lost in the story when I played 11. Unless 12 is a reboot or something I'd probably be even more lost.

 

[walsfeo]

Now I really want to play Big Boob Panty Ninja 12.

As do I my friend. As do I.

OT - Well said Bob.

What bothers me is that I missed Big Boob Panty Ninja 1-11. I could probably wait on 12 if I just had those.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Well said, Bob. Speaking as a (sane) feminist, the reaction to this whole thing makes me wish for a button to press that zaps some sense into those people. Ah well...

 

[TheFederation]

i am kind of happy about the response to the tropes vs woman, because on the escapist it showed how many people were appalled and shock towards the people who responded. it let me now that at least the escapist hasn't been invaded... entirely

 

[Lieju]

Do you want a world where women are free to exist as whatever tramp, harlot, stripper, engineer, teacher, or scientist they want to be?

Or do you want a world where women are not to be seen in public?

Did you miss the part where he said female characters in revealing outfits is okay? But that it would be nice if women were represented by a wider spectrum of body-types and characterisation?
"Mai looking like she does is awesome. Everyone looking like she does is stupid"

Besides, female characters in games don't choose to dress or act the way they do. They are written that way, and too often their writing and design is based on making them sex objects.

 

[Blade_125]

I still face-palm when I hear talk about the whole And yes before anyone goes "oh but there are much bigger problems with this controversy," I know. But if she can complain about something like Legos when there are huge human rights violations in the world in regards to females, I can complain about parts of her nonsense.

If we can't fix sexism here how can we hope to fix it elsewhere. Your argument doesn't hold up. There are millions starving in other countries so I shouldn't give money to the local food bank?

I never understand why so many people use the doctrine of relative filth. Maybe because it's easier than trying to fix the problems. It's worse somewhere else so why should I bother fixing something not as bad but closer to home.

 

[samus17]

Complaining that videogames cater to men is like complaining that the Oxygen channel caters to women; there's going to be pandering and NO ONE SHOULD CARE