except the people we're oppressing haven't kept us down, its other people 'the mainstream' kept down too.DTWolfwood said:Now that we are on top, the only natural thing for us to do is oppress those that have kept us down!
Sorry human nature
The Big Picture: With Great Power
- Thread starter MovieBob
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I hope Bob is going to do a follow up addressing the issues that many here in the comments have said already, as it stands now I have lost some respect for him.
Why should we be the ones changing for the mainstream when all they do is steal the parts they see as profitable and then go on and ruin it for all of us. I feel that we have always been rather accepting of others if they showed a genuine interest in our hobbies. Instead what we get are feminists coming in and demanding that we change for THEM and we should adapt to THEIR needs, not even the needs of real girl gamers (they too have been around since the beginning) because from what I read they don't see the problems all these crazy feminists are talking about either.
I am not too involved with geek culture, I like to play MMO's and card/board games and that is where it ends but I do see what the outside influences is doing and I don't like what I see and it is mostly the dumbing down to appeal to the masses that I despise. If that is what "accepting the mainstream" is then please find those greedy profiteers some other sub-culture to rape.
Why should we be the ones changing for the mainstream when all they do is steal the parts they see as profitable and then go on and ruin it for all of us. I feel that we have always been rather accepting of others if they showed a genuine interest in our hobbies. Instead what we get are feminists coming in and demanding that we change for THEM and we should adapt to THEIR needs, not even the needs of real girl gamers (they too have been around since the beginning) because from what I read they don't see the problems all these crazy feminists are talking about either.
I am not too involved with geek culture, I like to play MMO's and card/board games and that is where it ends but I do see what the outside influences is doing and I don't like what I see and it is mostly the dumbing down to appeal to the masses that I despise. If that is what "accepting the mainstream" is then please find those greedy profiteers some other sub-culture to rape.
See the problem there is not just me, well it is, but in a specific way. See I may be accepting and reasonable, but my neighbour might not be. He may think that my insistence we accept reason is unacceptable and unreasonable and I think it unreasonable to not accept my reasons for being reasonable. But! is my reason for him not to accept my reasoning pretty unacceptable?Combustion Kevin said:
We are not alright Kevin, we never will be.
I actually think we're starting to see geek culture spread its mainstream wings and actually start calling stuff out. From being the subset giving the middle finger to government spying, making intellectual curiosity cool again (with patron saints Tyson and Nye), to making it known we're not accepting the butter-queen's apology because the issue is she thought casual racism was okay in private to begin with.
There is the issue with being passive-aggressive, but I do love meme photos and the concept of voicing your upset state by mailing cupcakes.
The troll issue is something we've been allowing to fester by just letting them be and muting them. By now we should all know what happens when you expose trolls to the light.
There is the issue with being passive-aggressive, but I do love meme photos and the concept of voicing your upset state by mailing cupcakes.
The troll issue is something we've been allowing to fester by just letting them be and muting them. By now we should all know what happens when you expose trolls to the light.
How can we do better when our shit has been hijacked by the mainstream we disassociated ourselves with in the first place ?! and is now used as a fashion accessory and is only popular now coz the mainstream figured out they can make alot of money from us. We have not fucked it and WE should not be the one to shoulder the responsibility coz our culture has been made "mainstream" and the douches that have taken it over are assholes, just as they were before but with a different outfit. most of us did not even want this, we were happy being outside of all the shit and the dumb mainstream which included all the assholes that gave us shit in the past for what we were into or wearing. And now the same pricks that gave us shit are wearing and liking the same shit we did but its ok now coz its mainstream ? FUCK THAT.
Your bitching about the children playing games NOW. Not the current "geeks" and like Orcboyphil pointed out the tiny minority of geeks that are assholes which ive never met either. The problems we have now are from the mainstream assholes. NOT the current population of geeks.
So no Bob i have to disagree.
Your bitching about the children playing games NOW. Not the current "geeks" and like Orcboyphil pointed out the tiny minority of geeks that are assholes which ive never met either. The problems we have now are from the mainstream assholes. NOT the current population of geeks.
So no Bob i have to disagree.
The problem is that being a "geek" doesn't define your social behavior any more than being a "jock" does. What Bob is talking about is 'moral alignment', and not in the D&D sense. By way of explanation, let's simplify the scale to range from 'total dick' to 'totally not a dick', with various degrees in-between. Collective "geekdom" will have individuals ranging from all degrees on that scale. What unites them is not their moral persuasion but their intellectual and emotional attachment to specific types of entertainment.
It's even more complicated when you consider that myriad of complex issues that make up just one psyche, and that a person's view of their behavior is almost exclusively subjective. The changes Bob wants to see have to happen on an individual level. No mass preference on entertainment will do it.
It's even more complicated when you consider that myriad of complex issues that make up just one psyche, and that a person's view of their behavior is almost exclusively subjective. The changes Bob wants to see have to happen on an individual level. No mass preference on entertainment will do it.
this for the guy who made "magneto was right?"
Where he say about how he was bulled and is he ever had the chance to make the society that bullied him pay.
Is now saying that because geek culture is in a position of power and influence they should be nice to everyone...
At least be constant
Where he say about how he was bulled and is he ever had the chance to make the society that bullied him pay.
Is now saying that because geek culture is in a position of power and influence they should be nice to everyone...
At least be constant
I said that metal fans tended to deride it and that it may not be sincere. You've taken to mean as 'it's not metal' despite not being what I said.Aardvaarkman said:
Now personally I'm not much of a fan of hair metal or nu-metal (although I am partial to Motley Crue and Papa Roach), but I do consider them metal. However, they're both fairly distinct and share less musically and fashionwise (which matters with regards to mainstream acceptance) with other subgenres. Yes, technically they're metal, but I certainly wouldn't say that hair metal shared the same spirit (you're not going to hear a hair metal band sing about much other than sex or partying, it's considerably more upbeat) and nu-metal owed a lot of mainsream appeal to its rap influences.
This is two very distinct subgenres out of a very wide group, I don't really think it's fair to say that because they were accepted in their time that metal is, especially considering the elements that made them appealing to non-metal fans were pretty atypical.
Agreed. Honestly the idea of "geek culture" even being a thing only works if you have a very broad, and yet paradoxically exclusionary, definition of what a "geek" even is. Is it people who like science fiction and/or fantasy? No, that includes too many people who are not geeky in the traditional sense. Is it people who like media that's not mainstream? No, that excludes too much media that is geeky in the traditional sense and includes too much stuff traditional geeks wouldn't like. And so on.NeedsaBetterName22 said:Or, you know, we could accept the fact that entertainment choices don't necessarily coordinate with personal, social, economic or philosophical viewpoints, and abandon the idea of a 'geek culture' for what it truly is: a pathetic attempt at exclusivity driven by entertainment choice, an obsolete cultural backlash starting in the 80s driven by pseudo-intellectualism and superiority complexes (symptoms that Bob himself has, his rather condescending attacks on those that say, like Transformers films). Ultimately the very concept of a 'gamer' or 'geek' culture is inherently exclusive and driven by the belief that geeks are 'special'.
Honestly, why you'd shackle yourself to such a limiting cultural identity as 'geek' is beyond me. You're an individual for god's sake, your entertainment choices do not grant you some kind of arbitrary responsibility towards a nebulous and mushy concept like 'geek culture', nor does it make you somehow responsible for promoting social progressivism within a certain group.
TL
There's no such thing as a "geek". It's not a term that has an objective meaning, and it never was. It's just a word bullies call anyone they don't like. And on the flip side, saying that something isn't geeky is just a way for self-proclaimed geeks to pooh-pooh anything they don't like. Remember when Yahtzee said we should abandon the term "gamer"? I recommend we do the same with "geek".
Great sentiment in the video! Unfortunately, much of geek culture is defined by the underaged who don't know any better (or don't care), or the internet (which affords a level of anonymity that results in stupid behavior).
As the age of the average gamer increases, and becomes more diverse (indeed, nearly half of all gamers are women now), it becomes our job to be better parents and role models.
I think the market has already seen the power of geek culture as discerning consumers (eg: XBONE and DRM). Here's hoping that the culture becomes better all around as it gains influence.
As the age of the average gamer increases, and becomes more diverse (indeed, nearly half of all gamers are women now), it becomes our job to be better parents and role models.
I think the market has already seen the power of geek culture as discerning consumers (eg: XBONE and DRM). Here's hoping that the culture becomes better all around as it gains influence.
I agree with your comment as a whole, but I gotta say this part doesn`t feel right. I saw that video and thought that guy was a complete idiot. He kept trying to defend fiction with fiction, claiming things in games justified themselves within the game`s own context. Real world don`t work that way.Zombie_Moogle said:
OP: I feel what Bob`s saying here, but I think the issue is more broad than suggested. The behavior of exclusion is universal to certain personality types that cross all cultures and sub cultures, and not something unique to geek culture, it`s just taken on a more verbose form due to the dominant culture in question being geekery.
Mostly from personal experience and observation, it always seemed to me that the `dumb jocks` who picked on nerds in years past were never the very best or most popular. The best athletes or most popular kids really had no beef with nerds since they were getting all the satisfaction they needed by actually achieving things and socializing. It was always the second-besters, the mediocre, who would act aggressively towards those they deemed outsiders. They wanted to align themselves with the best, but lacking the talent to do so on their own merits, they lashed out at those who appeared different, perpetuating the class or clique mentality to position themselves on the side they`d like to be on but were unable to earn. The fact that many nerds lumped them all in together as one collective persecuting party just shows the extent of their success in reinforcing the divisions.
Now that nerds are the mainstream, it`s the same thing: the best and brightest will leave well enough alone because they`re able to prove themselves on their own, thus not often feeling like they have something to prove. Those who desire to be better or more interesting, but don`t have the natural talent or work ethic to earn it, create fictional clubs they belong to and rules for exclusion.
We saw it take the form of school-yard bullying in the past, but now it`s the internet age. Because physical strength isn`t required to spit out garbage online - consequence free - in the comfort of your home, there has naturally been a decline in locker stuffing. And because words are being used as fists, anything that can be used to single someone out (race, religion, gender, fruit preference) will be latched onto.
An easy task on one count. Those who want to stop all the stuff Bob listed, the best way to do it is by being informed. Learn what you need to understand the problems and then try to resolve them through the general people. DON'T try to solve problems without knowledge or support from those who cause the problems, otherwise you will have a solution that works for you and your group, but doesn't work for the general public.
Sounds a bit impossible, doesn't it? It is. Everyone is different and you can not force somebody to do something without it coming back on you. What you must do as an individual is to be knowledgeable and try to spread that knowledge. Only when everyone is at a high information standpoint, will social problems begin to dissipate.
Sounds a bit impossible, doesn't it? It is. Everyone is different and you can not force somebody to do something without it coming back on you. What you must do as an individual is to be knowledgeable and try to spread that knowledge. Only when everyone is at a high information standpoint, will social problems begin to dissipate.
I've never really believed in the idea of a "Geek culture", so this entire video was a bit lost on me I'm afraid.
To me, "geek" has always been a term of ignorance, because it gets used to lump together different activities, passions and pursuits that share nothing in common except the fact that the "cool crowd" (a term that only has any meaning for teenagers) don't like and/or understand them.
I don't feel any greater connection to people who go larping than I do to people who play tennis. They're both hobbies I don't share and have no interest in. Terming one a "geek" hobby and one a "mainstream" hobby seems childish.
To me, "geek" has always been a term of ignorance, because it gets used to lump together different activities, passions and pursuits that share nothing in common except the fact that the "cool crowd" (a term that only has any meaning for teenagers) don't like and/or understand them.
I don't feel any greater connection to people who go larping than I do to people who play tennis. They're both hobbies I don't share and have no interest in. Terming one a "geek" hobby and one a "mainstream" hobby seems childish.
But who really cares?TheRightToArmBears said:
I've loved all kinds of metal since I was about 12 years old. The problem is, as with the "geek culture" thing, people who define their identity as part of the "metal community" or whatever.
Who gives a shit? It's all music. I remember back in the 80s and early 90s, when I was teased for liking rap music like Public Enemy, because metal was the popular thing in my area. But I also loved metal. And jazz. And pop. And I was a nerd who loved to read.
The whole thing with sub-genres and sub-cultures is bullshit to me. It's all just music/art/culture. Why do you have to define things so narrowly? We are humans, not categories on a library shelf. People change. Someone who was once "PUNK 4 EVA" might become a techno fan later in life. The labels are stupid.
Huh. We must have grown up in totally different UKs. I have a friend who is still deeply bitter about being beaten up as a kid for no reason other than being a comic book fan.Abandon4093 said:
Ugh. I should have known.
I'm not sure if the first half of the video was actually a premise to the bog-standard Moviebob hypoagency endorsement, or just a drawn-out strawman to line up the sites for another hamfisted guilt trip, but whichever it is, it's utterly bogus.
To claim that ?geek culture? is the driving force of the ?mainstream culture? now is to devalue everything that he built his career on before picking up the ?white male guilt? banner. ?Mainstream? media and marketing hasn't ?embraced? geek culture, it's pillaged it. It's the same tactic that shot Apple out of the dumps a decade ago. Few outside the geek milieu knew what an MP3 even was. The iPod was a geek ?toy,? made more flashy and less functional..err.. complicated for mainstream marketing, and Turtleneck Jesus made a killing. Repeat the pattern a few more times with smartphones and portable/tablet computers (all of which were around long before Apple brought them into the mainstream eye), and it's not surprising that other industries picked up on it.
And that's what we have now, that Bob so gleefully touts as ?winning:? Geek culture signed, sanitized, sanctified, sealed, remodeled and approved for public consumption. Star Trek's nuance and philosophy was cut off into trendy rounded corners of pretty frat-boys and explosions; a world-wide-web two point oh, brought to you by Google, for the low, low price of reducing you to a pile of marketing data; childhood icons repackaged, rebranded, and ?re-imagined? in a cynical expectation of exploiting geek nostalgia, as they're shuffled and traded between megacorp portfolios like so many Magic: The Gathering cards.
At best, a rather Pyrrhic victory, but I don't think it's any sort of victory. Rather, it's just the latest in a line of salvos that extends back longer than most of us have been alive. ?The Mainstream? hates outliers, and is constantly trying to bring them back into the fold. The Comics Code Authority tried (and succeeded for nearly half a century), ?Mazes and Monsters? tried, Tipper Gore tried... an iconoclastic and individualistic subculture is bad for authority and bad for business.
Now we get what we already had, handed back to us. They dumb it down and tart it up, aiding the widespread acceptance and adoption of the watery work-alikes, all spiced with a societal anti-intellectualism that is most decidedly non-geek-friendly. And counting on the poor, silly rebels-without-a-clue of ?geek culture? to eat it up, grateful that the sexy cheerleader of the Mass Market noticed that they exist.
And, apparently, it's working.
I'm not sure if the first half of the video was actually a premise to the bog-standard Moviebob hypoagency endorsement, or just a drawn-out strawman to line up the sites for another hamfisted guilt trip, but whichever it is, it's utterly bogus.
To claim that ?geek culture? is the driving force of the ?mainstream culture? now is to devalue everything that he built his career on before picking up the ?white male guilt? banner. ?Mainstream? media and marketing hasn't ?embraced? geek culture, it's pillaged it. It's the same tactic that shot Apple out of the dumps a decade ago. Few outside the geek milieu knew what an MP3 even was. The iPod was a geek ?toy,? made more flashy and less functional..err.. complicated for mainstream marketing, and Turtleneck Jesus made a killing. Repeat the pattern a few more times with smartphones and portable/tablet computers (all of which were around long before Apple brought them into the mainstream eye), and it's not surprising that other industries picked up on it.
And that's what we have now, that Bob so gleefully touts as ?winning:? Geek culture signed, sanitized, sanctified, sealed, remodeled and approved for public consumption. Star Trek's nuance and philosophy was cut off into trendy rounded corners of pretty frat-boys and explosions; a world-wide-web two point oh, brought to you by Google, for the low, low price of reducing you to a pile of marketing data; childhood icons repackaged, rebranded, and ?re-imagined? in a cynical expectation of exploiting geek nostalgia, as they're shuffled and traded between megacorp portfolios like so many Magic: The Gathering cards.
At best, a rather Pyrrhic victory, but I don't think it's any sort of victory. Rather, it's just the latest in a line of salvos that extends back longer than most of us have been alive. ?The Mainstream? hates outliers, and is constantly trying to bring them back into the fold. The Comics Code Authority tried (and succeeded for nearly half a century), ?Mazes and Monsters? tried, Tipper Gore tried... an iconoclastic and individualistic subculture is bad for authority and bad for business.
Now we get what we already had, handed back to us. They dumb it down and tart it up, aiding the widespread acceptance and adoption of the watery work-alikes, all spiced with a societal anti-intellectualism that is most decidedly non-geek-friendly. And counting on the poor, silly rebels-without-a-clue of ?geek culture? to eat it up, grateful that the sexy cheerleader of the Mass Market noticed that they exist.
And, apparently, it's working.