The Big Picture: With Great Power
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Meh. End of the day there are always be racists, sexists or arseholes, whether they are geeks or football fans, young or old - you will find them every where and is down to the person they are - not what they do for entertainment or fun.
As for the geek thing, i've never considered myself a geek just because i enjoy the things i enjoy. An i certainly dont base my life around "what geeks enjoy doing." I dont think anyone considers themselves geeks, thats just what society labels them people.
As im sure many people would agree, like the things you like and fuck all the haters.
As for the geek thing, i've never considered myself a geek just because i enjoy the things i enjoy. An i certainly dont base my life around "what geeks enjoy doing." I dont think anyone considers themselves geeks, thats just what society labels them people.
As im sure many people would agree, like the things you like and fuck all the haters.
I accept the thrust of the argument - that Geeks individually and Geek Culture in general should be a force encouraging inclusion and egalitarianism - but I would say one thing about the premise. Just because supposedly Geeky products and pastimes are now a focus of new products and corporate marketing doesn't mean that those who would have been labelled a Geek or Nerd in the 1980's are viewed and treated as part of the mainstream now.
In social justice circles I think they call this sort of thing appropriation - where one culture takes from another without understanding or respecting the nature of that culture. It doesn't have near the same noxious implications for Geek Culture as for instance the teen fashion industry appropriating Native American attire, but it does go some way to explaining why Geeks at school would still be bullied even though they and their bully play the same XBOX title.
Just because jocks and dudebros play CoD doesn't mean they're geeks, see themselves as geeks or are more accepting of them. Families buying a Wii has about as much relevance as them buying scrabble or Monopoly in the 80's. Even though the iPhone is an enormous consumer brand doesn't mean your respect the young men and women who sold it to you. Avengers is huge? Ben-Hur and Cleopatra were the biggest films of 1959 and 1963, but that said very little about the influence of Egypt rather than factors which transcended time and setting.
We'd love to think that we have conquered the (Western) World, but when you look in the upper echelons of society the actual geek quotient hasn't really changed much. It's just that we occupy a more attractive amount of overall consumer spending and just so happen to get off on all the same easy shit that guys did in the 80's - explosions and special effects - and have an untapped mine of stories unique to the culture still to be exploited.
When the mainstream starts approaching watching a Magic:The Gathering Pro Tour in the same vein as the Superbowl, or LARPing as a weekend at the NASCAR, I will be more conducive to the premise. Until then, I'll still say that Geeks should be more welcoming of all whilst being quite happy divorcing myself from the assholes on console chat, Reddit or Youtube comments who, rather than being Geeks, are just seekers of entertainment who happen to be awful people.
In social justice circles I think they call this sort of thing appropriation - where one culture takes from another without understanding or respecting the nature of that culture. It doesn't have near the same noxious implications for Geek Culture as for instance the teen fashion industry appropriating Native American attire, but it does go some way to explaining why Geeks at school would still be bullied even though they and their bully play the same XBOX title.
Just because jocks and dudebros play CoD doesn't mean they're geeks, see themselves as geeks or are more accepting of them. Families buying a Wii has about as much relevance as them buying scrabble or Monopoly in the 80's. Even though the iPhone is an enormous consumer brand doesn't mean your respect the young men and women who sold it to you. Avengers is huge? Ben-Hur and Cleopatra were the biggest films of 1959 and 1963, but that said very little about the influence of Egypt rather than factors which transcended time and setting.
We'd love to think that we have conquered the (Western) World, but when you look in the upper echelons of society the actual geek quotient hasn't really changed much. It's just that we occupy a more attractive amount of overall consumer spending and just so happen to get off on all the same easy shit that guys did in the 80's - explosions and special effects - and have an untapped mine of stories unique to the culture still to be exploited.
When the mainstream starts approaching watching a Magic:The Gathering Pro Tour in the same vein as the Superbowl, or LARPing as a weekend at the NASCAR, I will be more conducive to the premise. Until then, I'll still say that Geeks should be more welcoming of all whilst being quite happy divorcing myself from the assholes on console chat, Reddit or Youtube comments who, rather than being Geeks, are just seekers of entertainment who happen to be awful people.
Erm... what?
"We" have been more powerless then ever since "we" absorbed the mainstream and are doomed to suffer from heartburn for all eternity. "We" are no longer a community to which one can talk and interact with, "we" are everyone.
And while we all, no matter if we call ourselves geek or not, should shun racists, homophobes and sexists(no matter the gender) at every possible opportunity(if they're being vocal about it; they can be as despicable as they want in their own home) here is something additional "we" should be working to remove from the culture.
"We". And also "them". Oh look, that did already happen, for geek culture is now a big amorphous mass that includes everyone. "Geek" culture merely provides the overlay for media with characters that blow stuff up. Ironman might as well be Rambo.
"We" as in "Geeks" are now the people who ignore homophobes and let gays be gays. We are also the homophobes and the racists and the sexists. We are tolerant and intolerant and basically, "we" aren't any better then every other mainstream overlay that came before this one.
Personally, i find myself in a world where beautiful people like to assume what i thought was my Mantle and be "geeks" because it is the new thing that is trending now. They steer the geek culture in directions i wouldn't want to go and pick some things of what was my culture that i don't always agree with, ironically because they are immensely stupid. Weren't "geeks" the brainy ones at some point in time? And now this fixation with gadgets is pinned onto the "Geeks"? Really? Camping in front of the apple store when the new iDevice comes out seems pretty similar to camping in front of any other electronics store to get a new TV on black friday.
I would gladly welcome anyone into the folds of whatever "geek" culture is now, although i recognize that i may no longer have the right to welcome anyone to anything because "geek" has evolved past me. A "geek" who was a geek when geek was still a term used derogatory isn't a "geek" anymore as many people understand that today. The geek is a dinosaur.
"Geeks" are people who would adopt bits and pieces because trendy people told them that this is "cool" now.
"We" have been more powerless then ever since "we" absorbed the mainstream and are doomed to suffer from heartburn for all eternity. "We" are no longer a community to which one can talk and interact with, "we" are everyone.
And while we all, no matter if we call ourselves geek or not, should shun racists, homophobes and sexists(no matter the gender) at every possible opportunity(if they're being vocal about it; they can be as despicable as they want in their own home) here is something additional "we" should be working to remove from the culture.
"We". And also "them". Oh look, that did already happen, for geek culture is now a big amorphous mass that includes everyone. "Geek" culture merely provides the overlay for media with characters that blow stuff up. Ironman might as well be Rambo.
"We" as in "Geeks" are now the people who ignore homophobes and let gays be gays. We are also the homophobes and the racists and the sexists. We are tolerant and intolerant and basically, "we" aren't any better then every other mainstream overlay that came before this one.
Personally, i find myself in a world where beautiful people like to assume what i thought was my Mantle and be "geeks" because it is the new thing that is trending now. They steer the geek culture in directions i wouldn't want to go and pick some things of what was my culture that i don't always agree with, ironically because they are immensely stupid. Weren't "geeks" the brainy ones at some point in time? And now this fixation with gadgets is pinned onto the "Geeks"? Really? Camping in front of the apple store when the new iDevice comes out seems pretty similar to camping in front of any other electronics store to get a new TV on black friday.
I would gladly welcome anyone into the folds of whatever "geek" culture is now, although i recognize that i may no longer have the right to welcome anyone to anything because "geek" has evolved past me. A "geek" who was a geek when geek was still a term used derogatory isn't a "geek" anymore as many people understand that today. The geek is a dinosaur.
"Geeks" are people who would adopt bits and pieces because trendy people told them that this is "cool" now.
Bob, as much as I agree with the stance that homophobic, racist, and sexist insults in online gaming and communities are terrible, you aren't going to reach those people with this video. Online gaming may be "mainstream", but I'd hardly call it geek culture. Yes, it's a video game, but those people who obsess over playing Call of Duty also give me weird looks when I say that I enjoy playing a game like Recettear, a JRPG where you run the damn item shop, and I have to struggle to explain what about the game appeals to me.
As for conventions being a place of sexual harassment, guess what? ANY place is a place of harassment. Women are just as subject to being hit on and objectified as they are in any bar or sporting event. In your video, you make it seem like this is something exclusionary to geek culture, when it is not. Besides, you were at ScrewAttack Gaming Convention a few weeks ago- did you see any harassment there? If it was, it definitely wasn't any of the places where I was walking around. Even Adam Sessler said whenever he goes to conventions he tries to find the idiotic male that is so commonplace in online gaming, and not once has he ever run into that kind of person in real life.
Not to mention, I run into gay/transsexual people a lot more at nerdy conventions than I do in real life. I may be a heterosexual white male, but from talking to people at anime/sci-fi/comic groups, I get the sense that people feel a lot more free to be themselves around "nerdy" conventions. Compare that to your average workplace, where people who like Star Wars or anime are routinely made fun of, nevermind what would happen if someone was outed as being gay (despite that in this day and age, it really shouldn't matter who you're attracted to).
Just because comic book movies are popular now doesn't mean that nerds have somehow "taken over". It's the same action and guns that have defined movies for decades, but with the rise of special effects, the superhero genre has exploded simply because it uses the new technology far better than "Commando" could have back in the day. Fantasy football might be comparable to D&D, but it's still based on sports instead of a world of elves and dwarves.
I will say that there are aspects of geek culture that need improving (such as the stupid as hell "fake geek girl" label) and the elitism of "my interests are niche; therefore they're better than yours", but being a nerd is still not "cool". The racist and sexists assholes on Xbox Live aren't nerds; they're just the kids of the assholes of previous generations.
As for conventions being a place of sexual harassment, guess what? ANY place is a place of harassment. Women are just as subject to being hit on and objectified as they are in any bar or sporting event. In your video, you make it seem like this is something exclusionary to geek culture, when it is not. Besides, you were at ScrewAttack Gaming Convention a few weeks ago- did you see any harassment there? If it was, it definitely wasn't any of the places where I was walking around. Even Adam Sessler said whenever he goes to conventions he tries to find the idiotic male that is so commonplace in online gaming, and not once has he ever run into that kind of person in real life.
Not to mention, I run into gay/transsexual people a lot more at nerdy conventions than I do in real life. I may be a heterosexual white male, but from talking to people at anime/sci-fi/comic groups, I get the sense that people feel a lot more free to be themselves around "nerdy" conventions. Compare that to your average workplace, where people who like Star Wars or anime are routinely made fun of, nevermind what would happen if someone was outed as being gay (despite that in this day and age, it really shouldn't matter who you're attracted to).
Just because comic book movies are popular now doesn't mean that nerds have somehow "taken over". It's the same action and guns that have defined movies for decades, but with the rise of special effects, the superhero genre has exploded simply because it uses the new technology far better than "Commando" could have back in the day. Fantasy football might be comparable to D&D, but it's still based on sports instead of a world of elves and dwarves.
I will say that there are aspects of geek culture that need improving (such as the stupid as hell "fake geek girl" label) and the elitism of "my interests are niche; therefore they're better than yours", but being a nerd is still not "cool". The racist and sexists assholes on Xbox Live aren't nerds; they're just the kids of the assholes of previous generations.
When did asking for people to be nice to each other and to not use past wounds to hurt others become a liberal notion?Reeve said:Weirdest Big Picture so far. It started out as a history lesson on geek culture then turned into yet another american liberal rant against the patriarchy (that's popular to do at the moment) and then finished by preaching some kind of left liberal geek ideology.
Never, ever going to happen, Bob. props, on your enthusiastic idealism though. As someone with a little background in psychology (I'm far from an expert though, still working on that elusive PhD), I can tell you that persecuted groups in history are much more likely to be exclusionary and exhibit far more non-normative pathological behavior once they start/become mainstream. This happens on both the individual level and in socio-group dynamics. It's actually pretty interesting to study as it turns out and it is actually quite easy to manipulate the psychology of this phenomena (politicians, marketers, religious leaders do this all the time). I like to call it the clipboard syndrome: Want to see someone turn into a complete ass... just strip them of their agency and then slowly give a little of it back and tell them to exert their "new" authority over others. Welcome to humanity, enjoy your stay.
If you haven't found racist geeks then you aren't looking very hard. Sure there may be fewer bigger cesspools of scum and villainy than X-Box live but it certainly doesn't stop there and when it doesn't stop there the excuse of it being a bunch of immature 13 year olds stops being the case. I can think specifically of my experience with the Magic: the Gathering community. A community that I would describe as a bunch of racist thieves. That community is comprised almost entirely of white and Asian guys (yes, I know that the game is also really big in Brazil) so if you're not one of those races you're probably going to be subjected to some pretty ugly comments. Hell even if you're a white male (and if you're Jewish in America there are good odds that you're white) you're going to hear the word 'Jew' used as a verb far more often than as a noun. It's not like this has gotten any better since I stopped playing Magic. I can recall a recent conversation that I overheard between a patron and and employee at a game store that specialized in both Magic and video games (in that they had lots of people in the store at the same time playing both Magic and video games)that went something like this:DerangedHobo said:
Patron: Is it going to get dark around here this evening?
Employee: A little bit *smirking*.
In case you're wondering the patron is asking if there are going to be a lot of black people coming into the store later in the day. Wow.
Bob, I think the ultimate point I'd make too you in response to this video is this.
Sure, Nerd Culture may be in the mainstream.. but -Nerds- aren't.
People who fit the sterotype of the detail-oriented physical unfit fantasy and escapism loving 13-40 year old are always going to be unfashionable at best, and the victims of outright hostility from almost every other facet of society at worst. So, the idea that these people who form the core of the culture are going to somehow gain the power too direct popular opinion just because things they like are now liked by a wider audience is pretty ridiculous.
The embracing of so called "Nerd Culture" hasn't really changed anything besides the fullness of a few people in the entertainment industry's wallets, alright? The cultural attitudes towards Nerds are still exactly the same as they were before, and for the foreseeable future, they will remain so, so don't act like we've gained some X-Men powers that we must now wield responsibility, because we -haven't-.
Sure, Nerd Culture may be in the mainstream.. but -Nerds- aren't.
People who fit the sterotype of the detail-oriented physical unfit fantasy and escapism loving 13-40 year old are always going to be unfashionable at best, and the victims of outright hostility from almost every other facet of society at worst. So, the idea that these people who form the core of the culture are going to somehow gain the power too direct popular opinion just because things they like are now liked by a wider audience is pretty ridiculous.
The embracing of so called "Nerd Culture" hasn't really changed anything besides the fullness of a few people in the entertainment industry's wallets, alright? The cultural attitudes towards Nerds are still exactly the same as they were before, and for the foreseeable future, they will remain so, so don't act like we've gained some X-Men powers that we must now wield responsibility, because we -haven't-.
you could be demisexual, like me. Not the type to instantly fall in love, but grow in attraction the more you are around someone. Even then it is more affection/cuddling and the like than sexual (though i might be warped in that case since i'm a BDSMer).themilo504 said:
Nerds are really the hipsters of yesteryear.MattKirby said:
I have a few problems with the video this week; first is that nerds are not a hive mind and this video seems to suggest that with ideas of community. If you took anytime to look into those issues of sexism and racism you would see that it's not a single minded out cry but an argument with people taking every possible side of the issue, and in most cases I would say the majority is on the side of fair treatment. Second is you dragged this video out way to long as soon as you got to Doctor Who you had more then matter your point and should of just gotten straight to your big but then.
Bob, have you ever read through the comment sections on Youtube? or been to 4chan? do you really expect these people to suddenly turn around and become a global force for good? Get real Bob, its rules 4 and 5: Do not Forgive, Do not Forget.
Or to put another way: Cultures are defined and created by their bigotry. America was created when it rejected England, England when it rejected Spain, Spain when it rejected the Moors and so on. Geeks are not brought together by the perception as repressed but by the belief they are better, smarter and more perceptive then the main stream. No one forced us to take an interest in Star Wars/Trek/Craft D&D 40k or even MLPFiM we sought all that out because we thought we saw something in them that other people just don't get.
And that i think is way Geek culture is now becoming so dominate. While other cultural forces have been homoginized and shamed into including everyone Geeks retain enough identity to reject out side influence and thus have become a more biting driving force. Or in layman's terms Geeks still have their balls, and thus can shout down or shame down those who oppose their opinions. I don't think such a sub culture can ever bring about the progressive change you are looking for. Nor do I think it should because at best Geeks would create some kind of troll based "Love and Tolerate the fuck out of you" system of enforcing political correctness. And that path leads to the dark side... Or worship of the Emperor. You know what? Scratch that we need geeks to conquer all aspects of modern culture.
Or to put another way: Cultures are defined and created by their bigotry. America was created when it rejected England, England when it rejected Spain, Spain when it rejected the Moors and so on. Geeks are not brought together by the perception as repressed but by the belief they are better, smarter and more perceptive then the main stream. No one forced us to take an interest in Star Wars/Trek/Craft D&D 40k or even MLPFiM we sought all that out because we thought we saw something in them that other people just don't get.
And that i think is way Geek culture is now becoming so dominate. While other cultural forces have been homoginized and shamed into including everyone Geeks retain enough identity to reject out side influence and thus have become a more biting driving force. Or in layman's terms Geeks still have their balls, and thus can shout down or shame down those who oppose their opinions. I don't think such a sub culture can ever bring about the progressive change you are looking for. Nor do I think it should because at best Geeks would create some kind of troll based "Love and Tolerate the fuck out of you" system of enforcing political correctness. And that path leads to the dark side... Or worship of the Emperor. You know what? Scratch that we need geeks to conquer all aspects of modern culture.