The Big Picture: You Are Wrong About Sucker Punch, Part One

[disgruntledgamer]

I'm disappointed I thought this was going to be about Sucker Punch Studios not about a bad movie that overuses metaphors like George Lucas overuses CGI.

Yeah I know there was a picture of the movie, but I figured no one would even bother making something about a B rated bla movie after so long after it's release. Oh and just because a movie is being ironically or metaphorically opposed to sexism doesn't mean people aren't going to jerk off to it. Just saying........

 

[TWEWER]

If nobody "got" Sucker Punch, then it clearly didn't do a good enough job, that is not a good movie.

 

[CK76]

I was actually introduced to this by my girl friend who is a huge fan of it. We watched the Blu-Ray Director's Cut and I enjoyed it. Liked the action, the characters, the story and themes and felt like I "got" everything discussed thus far. Had no idea this was hated so much to be honest. Figured it fell into that "Equilibrium" type film that most people simply forgot and a few enjoyed.

On the whole "you don't get it" issue. I learned my lesson when I enjoyed "The Village" and everyone else in my film going group jumped on me because they hated it. I tried to explain about it being a a study on social coercion mechanisms and myth of the good old days, but no one cared. My point? I doubt this tactic works on people as the go into a defensive posture when you say they don't understand.

EDIT: Also, I found the Germans (this was WW1, hence the trenches, no Nazis here) to be very tragic that they relive all of their lives when they die. To rediscover your humanity and realize what you are in that instant is a horrifying crime to commit on someone.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I want to see the movie now

 

[Aureliano]

The best comparison I can make to Sucker Punch is Twilight.

That is: there are two kinds of people (for the purpose of this metaphor) who enjoy Twilight. The kind who like it because they don't know what 'domestic violence' is yet and wish they could go out with the dreamy emotionally stunted rich kid, and the kind who think shitty movies are awesome. They're both right in their own ways. There's nothing wrong with those people who hate the Twilights, but I think they're missing the point.

[Sidenote: the 40-ish women who like it because of the gayness probably have some shit they need to deal with in their sex lives, or need to read some psychoanalysis sometime.]

Similarly, there are two kinds of people who hate Sucker Punch. The kind who wanted to see boobs and didn't, and the kind who heard it had some kind of anti-establishment message about male viewership of exploitation films, then realized halfway through that Zack Snyder really just wants people to stop looking at ladies and to start looking at dudes like in 300.

And yes, both groups are again entirely justified to hate it for those reasons, though those who like it are also free to do so of course. The fact that Snyder used metaphor to express his 'feminist' ideas instead of just blatantly asserting them is neat, but doesn't change the fact that he's a dunce as far as sexual politics is concerned.

 

[lacktheknack]

I just realized that I'm in a very unique group here.

I'm part of the "Loved the movie, didn't quite get it because I wasn't gawking at the girls but was entranced by the action scenes" group.

So if MovieBob is correct, then I'm a target that got squarely missed and loved the movie anyways.

Huh.

 

[irishda]

That's the problem with movies that seek to lecture their audiences like your best friend's mom after you've both been caught drinking. When you brought your audience in to tell them how horrible they are, people tend to react negatively. Like Cabin in the Woods. "Hurr, if you complain about this movie, you're one of the Ancient Gods that aren't satisfied without the usual tropes."

Since Sucker Punch's message was "if you watched this because you thought the women were sexy, you're a pig". Well congratulations Zack Snyder. Almost no one saw it, so your message was received.

As for the movie, I dunno if I would've enjoyed it even if the execution wasn't shit. The action pieces were so barely connected to the narrative, it was like a video game trailer plopped into the middle of my movie. I'm gonna have to use this quote from Vince Mancini over at Filmdrunk

Generally speaking, dreams are like farts, yours aren?t going to be nearly as fascinating to other people as they are to you. And the confused sense of time and place in the dreams applies to the whole movie. The first time Baby Doll dances, Madame Gorski cues up a reel to reel which begins to play? some techno-ish Chemical Brothers-sounding Björk song (the part starting at about 55-second mark). It reminded me of that awful movie Queen of the Damned where the 16th century feudal lord rises from his grave because he digs Korn music. The shock of hearing Björk in a 40s whorehouse drew laughs from half the audience, but no one onscreen seemed to mind. BUT IT?S A FANTASY, RIGHT?!?!? THE LINEAR RULES OF HISTORY DON?T APPLY! Sure, but keep in mind that we?re expected to believe that these fantasies came from the mind of a 20-year-old girl in the 50s or early 60s (when lobotomies were still common practice). Jeez, she was imagining Björk music, chain guns, zombies, and robot samurais in 1955? If she would?ve been allowed to plan the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance, it would?ve looked like the video for ?Closer.?

 

[Ariseishirou]

--snip--

Hey, Bob? This dude "loved" the movie. If that isn't evidence enough for you that the message you've inferred was either non-existent, or got lost along the way, I don't know what would be.

 

[cross_breed]

"Just because you're doing it 'ironically,' doesn't mean people aren't going to jerk off to it."
- Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

 

[Mcupobob]

Honestly I vaguely remember this movie, thought it was okay liked the action in it from what I remember. Didn't know I was being mocked through the film through a layer of metaphors haha.

 

[Trishbot]

Here's the thing... if a huge number of people did not "get it" then that's the movie's fault.

To paraphrase Rogert Ebert, "If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it doesn't."

The movie failed to properly convey its message. No matter what its message was, it's deliver faltered and failed, and that's the fault of the movie, not the audience that saw it.

 

[Gunnyboy]

I'd like to see Bob do a show on his top 10 favorite movies.

Here's the thing... if a huge number of people did not "get it" then that's the movie's fault.

To paraphrase Rogert Ebert, "If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it doesn't."

The movie failed to properly convey its message. No matter what its message was, it's deliver faltered and failed, and that's the fault of the movie, not the audience that saw it.

Funny thing is, I bet Ebert doesn't feel the same about Malick films.

 

[Madara XIII]

....still a huge "FUCK NO" for me, Bob.
I watched it. It took two viewings for me to get it, but even then...it just felt soooo
well you said it at the beginning for me.

[HEADING=2]PRETENTIOUS[/HEADING]

In my personal viewing, never has so much plot held so little weight mostly because of how Scattered it was. Not saying it was too hard to follow, but the action parts...just kinda killed me. I don't know why, but I didn't enjoy them like I thought I would.
I could care less for the skimpy clothing and I could care less for the sex appeal, but I just kinda sighed throughout the whole movie even when the message clicked.

Color me JADED, but I just didn't like it. Either as an action movie or the metaphors and symbolism within it, I couldn't pull myself to like it one bit.

 

[jaketaz]

The movie gives us far more time to look at scantily clad skinny hot chicks than it does time to look at the ugly terrible people enjoying their striptease.

Call it what you want, pick it apart however you want, give these people the benefit of the doubt by calling it satire. These filmmakers made a bunch of money by marketing scantily-clad skinny hot chicks to young males viewers.

If this movie is social commentary, I believe it to be a commentary on our eagerness to gobble up the dangling intellectual cookie of "satire", and how we like to make ourselves feel good by rationalizing every shit movie as satire. Oh no... you see, since this movie is almost EXCLUSIVELY shots of scantily-clad skinny hot chicks that are constantly at the mercy of male superiors, it is actually social commentary!

It makes me so happy that I can now jerk off to perfect-looking powerless women while actually empowering them!

 

[beniki]

The only thing I didn't like about the movie was the length of the action sequences... they just went on too long.

I can see why they had them that long, or else it might seem too 'artistic' for it's target audience, but it undercuts the main focus of the movie.

And like you say, the imagery is a bit to unfocussed, and a little too hard to read to deliver the sucker the punch. Yes, you have the obvious stuff, like trying to blow up a train, or slay the dragon (literally cutting up male organs) but a lot of the imagery went over my head... if there was any less obvious stuff.

Could have been a lot better if they shortened the action scenes. Still liked it though.

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

Hmm... The point that Movie-Bob makes may be true, but I'm not entirely sure whether I can personally fit into the group being criticized by the movie.

...Although that may just be because I have different standards of attraction than what said "anime style pandering" usually takes the form of in popular consciousness.

Seriously, the girls I idolize tend to look like they stole Leon's/Squall's wardrobe. Or some other guy's wardrobe.

I'd give an image example, but apparently the internet hates me, so, use your imagination. Just keep in mind few couple general rules:
-more clothes is better than less.
-dresses and skirts aren't practical, and I don't think they are stylish.
-Only expose as much flesh as you would be comfortable with if it was winter. (which is to say, only hands, neck and face.)
-stick with a simple palate of colors, and stick closer to dark shades of them.
-For hair, pick two or more of the following: Short, Spiky, Wild, unnatural color(s).

If you have any doubts... Just make the whole thing cooler... It probably needs to be about 20% cooler.

 

[marche45]

I just realized that I'm in a very unique group here.

I'm part of the "Loved the movie, didn't quite get it because I wasn't gawking at the girls but was entranced by the action scenes" group.

Actually,so am i.

 

[Morbira]

I actually viewed this movie as a fresh take on the "prison break" niche genre, with nods to current pop-culture mainstays (video games in particular) in its presentation. To me, I was more interested in seeing what the visuals and events in each action fantasy represented in the real/brothel world, as opposed to turning off my brain and watching a scantily clad girl kick ass for the oogling spectacle. Does that mean I watched this film incorrectly? Am I still the target of the film's "intended" criticism? I really don't know. All I can say is I loved the hell out of this movie for how well written the rules of the universe were for it, and how tightly the presentation clung to those rules in order to present smart, thoughtful visual metaphor on all 3 levels of "consciousness" within the movie.

Am I the only one who saw this movie as neither misogynistic, nor misandristic?