The Big Picture: You Are Wrong About Sucker Punch, Part One

[someonehairy-ish]

"This shit looks like a 2 hour heavy metal music video"

Seriously? Most of the metal music videos I like are all conceptual and bizarre.

You aren't kvlt enough

 

[Fearzone]

Sucker Punch was a bad movie for two reasons.

One: it hates its audience. It is more of a joking wink wink hatred but still.

Two: it is too heavily derivative of better fantasy movies that came before.

 

[StrayDataPoint]

Sorry, I don't have time to go through all the comments, so this may have been said already:

While I appreciate helping me "get it" -I admit I missed a lot of the stuff moviebob points out, that do actualy make sense-, I don't see how these things change the assesement presented at the beginning of the video : a pandering male fantasy that pays lip-service to feminism. I mean, even if the vilification of the audience is true, and intentional, it was done so timidly, so unengaged, as to be indistinguishable from "lip-sevice to feminsim".
If it was not meant for the audience to get it, but it was merely an in-joke between producers, than it means the movie did _not_ have it as a purpose. There is a point where "subtle" stop being "subtle" and becomes "apologetic, and hidden, so that we can still cash in on the thing, with no one the wiser".
So yeah. Better than I thought, but still fucking bad. And misogynistic, since intent isn't magic.

 

[ElPatron]

I didn't say it was good but it's all I had at the time. It wasn't like I could do anything else.

If you thought it was worth it due to your circumstances, more power to you.

Since you have mentioned these abusive relationships several times always in the past tense, I assume that the sacrifice did not save anything.

In the end, there is always something to do against abuse.

So yeah. Better than I thought, but still fucking bad. And misogynistic, since intent isn't magic.

So 90% (made up percentage, I think the only good/not-bad guys are the driver and the lobotomy dude) of the men in the movie (both IRL and in the Cabaret sequences) are evil people who trap women and abuse them (or at least conspire/do not take action).

Textbook example of the hatred of women. That was sarcasm, by the way.

I wasn't far off, right near the end. From a man's perspective, the film is a humongous guilt trip.

Maybe I have something against enjoying things like this, but it had the same effect as Spec Ops: The Line. The game tried so hard to make me feel guilty for something that was not my choice that it completely fell short. Add a sub-par gameplay to the mix and the game is unremarkable.

Now Sucker Punch. It presented an unrealistic depiction of what happens when someone is declared insane for plot convenience and even added bribery to make me buy it. Then it went off to some over-the-top but slightly "bland" action sequences. And then it drops the "THIS MOVIE IS ACTUALLY DEEP!" move and tries (or at least people say it tried) to make me feel guilty for the actions of characters I am clearly supposed to hate.

 

[RedDeadFred]

This plus the fact that most people didn't even like the movie kind of throws its own ideas of us being slobs in its face. I've always thought girls wearing almost nothing while fighting horrible monsters is pretty dumb and this movie was no different for me. I did not watch it in theaters because I had no interest but I watched it at a friend's house.

So not only does it sink to the level of what it hates, it actually fails to be a god enough movie to prove that it's message is true in this case.

Honestly I'm kind of insulted that the movie is apparently aimed at me.

But... it's not. You said you don't enjoy these sort of movies anyway, while the movie is aimed at people who do.

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I wasn't far off, right near the end. From a man's perspective, the film is a humongous guilt trip.

Maybe I have something against enjoying things like this, but it had the same effect as Spec Ops: The Line. The game tried so hard to make me feel guilty for something that was not my choice that it completely fell short. Add a sub-par gameplay to the mix and the game is unremarkable.

Aye, but it was very much my choice to go and see it based in part mostly because of all the scantily clad girlies in the advertising... so it ended up hitting the exact nerve it was aiming for, with me.

And I can see why lots of people wouldn't like that aspect. But I quite enjoy it when something points out flaws that I might have. Maybe I'm just masochistic.

 

[richard misiak]

Fanboy gushing over the 'meh' captain america film, then your crusade against the amazing spiderman and now this "oh I'm so much smarter than you and my opinion is right because you supposedly didn't get this movie".
I'm started to get real tired of your shit moviebob.

 

[Nimcha]

This plus the fact that most people didn't even like the movie kind of throws its own ideas of us being slobs in its face. I've always thought girls wearing almost nothing while fighting horrible monsters is pretty dumb and this movie was no different for me. I did not watch it in theaters because I had no interest but I watched it at a friend's house.

So not only does it sink to the level of what it hates, it actually fails to be a god enough movie to prove that it's message is true in this case.

Honestly I'm kind of insulted that the movie is apparently aimed at me.

But... it's not. You said you don't enjoy these sort of movies anyway, while the movie is aimed at people who do.

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

Yes but apparently not the typical type, because it is assumed they would enjoy such things.

 

[ElPatron]

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

What are you? 12? I'm sorry for being brutally honest, but you accept that anything that might be related to gaming/geek culture should be applied to you?

If you just said that the premise of the action scenes was dumb, you have just proven that you're not the target audience. Just because you consider yourself a gamer/geek doesn't mean you must like everything related to geekiness.

Aye, but it was very much my choice to go and see it based in part mostly because of all the scantily clad girlies in the advertising... so it ended up hitting the exact nerve it was aiming for, with me.

To me it was the opposite. I watched it because out of a sudden I heard everyone praising the movie and I just went with the "this is probably going to be so bad I'm going to enjoy it" mindset.

It ended up being better than what I thought (by having actual depth) but that only made it worse. It wasn't a dumb movie that I could enjoy for being dumb.

 

[burymagnets]

Dammit, I thought maybe there was a great meaning to Sucker Punch I'd missed. I got all that backwards mysogeny but it was just so oddly amateurish.

For example, using Jefferson Airplane's White Rabbit, a song strongly linked to the Vietnam War, during a sequence full of WWI imagery is just baffling to me. I think its odd little touches like that which stop the fantasy sequences from being immersive. I'm never spellbinded and as such the film's 'sucker punch' never quite hits home

 

[Farther than stars]

I feel like I 'get' this film mostly because I have been in abusive relationships with men and have used my imagination (and games) as a form of escapism. This film could have been taken from inside my head... I have real life parallels for both the step father and the doctor/brothel owner guy, unfortunately.

You are so right about this Bob, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

This film made me cry, I'm not sure how many people it had that effect on.

It's funny how people who have actually undergone misogyny tend to be more levelheaded about discussing it than the hatemongers who have never had to experience severe misogyny themselves. So thanks for adding your voice to help create a more civilized and intellectual discussion about the subject matter the film is trying to provoke, as opposed to just shouting for blood from the rooftops.

 

[RedDeadFred]

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

What are you? 12? I'm sorry for being brutally honest, but you accept that anything that might be related to gaming/geek culture should be applied to you?

I'm just going off of what Movie Bob said. He said in his video that it applied to me the gamer. Even if the message applied to me, it would still be a shitty movie because the plot is laughable. And before you say that the target audience is the people who like action and no plot I will say that from what I've seen/heard of other gamer opinions is that most of us don't really like movies like Transformers 2 and such. Most of us prefer more substance to our movies. I can't speak for everyone of course but that's just the majority of what I've seen.

Also, no need to be so hostile. Some people could take that as being jerkish which, you know, is against the rules.

 

[RedDeadFred]

This plus the fact that most people didn't even like the movie kind of throws its own ideas of us being slobs in its face. I've always thought girls wearing almost nothing while fighting horrible monsters is pretty dumb and this movie was no different for me. I did not watch it in theaters because I had no interest but I watched it at a friend's house.

So not only does it sink to the level of what it hates, it actually fails to be a god enough movie to prove that it's message is true in this case.

Honestly I'm kind of insulted that the movie is apparently aimed at me.

But... it's not. You said you don't enjoy these sort of movies anyway, while the movie is aimed at people who do.

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

Yes but apparently not the typical type, because it is assumed they would enjoy such things.

I guess so, it's just that most of the gaming culture I've seen (mainly my friends the Escapist and a couple other sites), don't like these types of movies.

 

[Farther than stars]

So, if Sucker Punch was unsuccessful in conveying its satire of pandering male nerd fantasy cynically pretending to be somehow feminist by making its fetish dolls into action heroes, what does distinguish it from pandering male nerd fantasy cynically pretending to be somehow feminist by making its fetish dolls into action heroes?

Not much. Really.

That's the thing with satirical condemnation, if you aren't very clever, like Zack Snyder, you end up straight up making the thing you were condemning.

He's gotta be a little clever though; we are talking about his film after all. And isn't that the point of these kind of satirical movies - to spark an intellectual debate?

My biggest problem, though? The opening scene nearly triggered me. The abusive stepdad? There's obvious cues that the daughters were abused, going to the point of sexual when the shooting occurs, and sexual abuse going to an escapist fantasy that involves being sexually objectified and feasibly abused more? That's ridiculous.

Is it though? Some psychologists would even go so far as to say that 'reliving' an episode of emotional trauma is a necessary experience to fully repair a broken human psyche. I haven't seen the film by the way, so the idea may very well be poorly executed, but the premise the way you describe it here sounds fine to me.

 

[Farther than stars]

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

What are you? 12? I'm sorry for being brutally honest, but you accept that anything that might be related to gaming/geek culture should be applied to you?

I'm just going off of what Movie Bob said. He said in his video that it applied to me the gamer. Even if the message applied to me, it would still be a shitty movie because the plot is laughable. And before you say that the target audience is the people who like action and no plot I will say that from what I've seen/heard of other gamer opinions is that most of us don't really like movies like Transformers 2 and such. Most of us prefer more substance to our movies. I can't speak for everyone of course but that's just the majority of what I've seen.

Also, no need to be so hostile. Some people could take that as being jerkish which, you know, is against the rules.

Ha, ha, you sure told him.
But what I do disagree with about your statement is how you take a definition of "gamer" from your immediate surroundings, which I don't believe holds water for the larger culture. We here at the escapist are of course only a small demographic than lies at the core of gaming culture. The majority of gamers will buy one or two games a year; something along the lines of "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield". They'll tend to focus on more action-heavy over narrative-driven games, which is not to say of course that either approach to gaming is necessarily better, it's just that I don't think that your image of the "average gamer" is entirely accurate.

 

[Farther than stars]

Maybe I have something against enjoying things like this, but it had the same effect as Spec Ops: The Line. The game tried so hard to make me feel guilty for something that was not my choice that it completely fell short. Add a sub-par gameplay to the mix and the game is unremarkable.

Ah, yes, but did you actually go into the game expecting it to deliver a message about the condemnation of war based on what you'd read in the press or did you pick it up because it looked like a fun shooter along the lines of, say, Call of Duty?

 

[mirasiel]

Glad to see bob still wasting time explaining the fucking obvious.

I got it, I still didn't like it but I did think it had pretty CGI..which is something I guess, decent soundtrack too.

It just wasn't as smart as it or you though it was.

 

[faefrost]

Gah! quoted the wrong post.

It makes as much sense as Snyder filling Watchmen with tons of late 60's and 70's music (Dylan etc) when the movie is really about and set in the 80's.

 

[RedDeadFred]

He said it was aimed at gamer geek type people and that's kind of what I am...

What are you? 12? I'm sorry for being brutally honest, but you accept that anything that might be related to gaming/geek culture should be applied to you?

I'm just going off of what Movie Bob said. He said in his video that it applied to me the gamer. Even if the message applied to me, it would still be a shitty movie because the plot is laughable. And before you say that the target audience is the people who like action and no plot I will say that from what I've seen/heard of other gamer opinions is that most of us don't really like movies like Transformers 2 and such. Most of us prefer more substance to our movies. I can't speak for everyone of course but that's just the majority of what I've seen.

Also, no need to be so hostile. Some people could take that as being jerkish which, you know, is against the rules.

Ha, ha, you sure told him.
But what I do disagree with about your statement is how you take a definition of "gamer" from your immediate surroundings, which I don't believe holds water for the larger culture. We here at the escapist are of course only a small demographic than lies at the core of gaming culture. The majority of gamers will buy one or two games a year; something along the lines of "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield". They'll tend to focus on more action-heavy over narrative-driven games, which is not to say of course that either approach to gaming is necessarily better, it's just that I don't think that your image of the "average gamer" is entirely accurate.

I was thinking more along the lines of what I considered "real" gamers I guess. You know, people who will buy games outside of the FPS genre but I guess I just misunderstood who he was talking about. I just figured he was talking about the average Escapist gamer because he posted it on the Escapist lol.
Still this is really just semantics. Movie Bob is arguing that because there's a deeper "fuck you average gamer" message that the movie is somehow better. IMO, it's still a bad movie.