right oh im a lazy ass i jst dont care whether you agree with me or not im just making my point you cantake it or leave it i just believe the pursuite of the casual market is leading to another industrie crashReaperman Wompa post=9.72673.768753 said:
the casual gamer demographic is ruining the indutrie
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Well this is productive...
I never really understood why people were inspired to think that spore would be this deeply complex life simulator. Just look at the graphics style. I'm not saying it's poor graphics, it's just kiddie- like Team Fortress 2.
Spore was over-hyped, and you fell for it. Try not to follow the Yahtzee bandwagon.
I know, look at it this way: You don't like the game because it is too simple, for every one of you there are five others who do like it because it is simple. So the company sells more, so they make more games, and hopefully learn from their mistakes. It can't get worse when they have so much more money, and so many more raging gamers' opinions to make it better.
I never really understood why people were inspired to think that spore would be this deeply complex life simulator. Just look at the graphics style. I'm not saying it's poor graphics, it's just kiddie- like Team Fortress 2.
Spore was over-hyped, and you fell for it. Try not to follow the Yahtzee bandwagon.
I know, look at it this way: You don't like the game because it is too simple, for every one of you there are five others who do like it because it is simple. So the company sells more, so they make more games, and hopefully learn from their mistakes. It can't get worse when they have so much more money, and so many more raging gamers' opinions to make it better.
Basketball doesn't become a worse game when soccer gets more popular.
Because Will Wright said it would be.Danny Ocean post=9.72673.768788 said:
well youve made a good point but it doesnt change the fact that in my entire life spore is the only game i have seriously considerd taking back to the shop and demanding my money back on i did not go off hype tho everything i saw and expected i saw will wright show off on stage demo's now i could deal with it but when theve shown a feature and then removed it they had better put out a retraction like an official news article on thier website or a email out a revised list of features to the people who had signed up for it dont just let people continue on thining that thats what it's going to be.Danny Ocean post=9.72673.768788 said:
i think all developers should take a page from peter molyneux's book and obnly show features that are 100% confirmed so people dont form unrealistic expectations.
Once they had seen the gameplay videos, the concept art, the renders... Game developers often say a lot of things. Like all other manufactures, they bend the truth with their advertising.Fraser.J.A post=9.72673.768821 said:
Spore probably is very complex under the hood.
Once they had seen the gameplay videos, the concept art, the renders... Game developers often say a lot of things. Like all other manufactures, they bend the truth with their advertising.Danny Ocean post=9.72673.768832 said:
Spore probably is very complex under the hood.[/quote]
Like Peter May he burn in hell Molyneaux.
Everyone over-hypes their games, Will Wright just did over so long a period peoples hopes kept building up until they got the box of average lovingly known as Spore.
Speaking as a casual gamer, I would say that the problem is the same as making children's films or television shows. All of the really good ones appeal to both children and adults. When they try to specifically target a younger audience, they lose the adult audience and thus make an inferior product, a product that only has a very specific audience which it may not get. see: "Quest For Camelot
So it is with games. The best casual games appeal to the more hardcore players as well, at least as an in-between "real" game diversion. When developers try to specifically target the casual gaming audience, they tend to just dumb it down to the point that it appeals to nobody. Because, get this y'all, casual gamers are not stupid. They just don't devote long hours to playing games. So games with high learning curves, difficult controls, obtuse concepts, etc do not appeal. Neither does games that require a high-time commitment. We don't have that kind of time. That's why we're casual gamers.
But this does not mean we dislike a game with depth and complexity. In fact, if a game manages to appeal enough for us to sink extra time into it but it turns out to lack real depth, we feel just as cheated as the rabid hardcore gamer. It might take as a little longer to get there, but we probably feel even more cheated since our time is precious. A game without depth feels like a waste of time.
My point is, there are so many factors that goes into making a game and how a game appeals to an audience, that it's pure hubris on the developer's part to try to appeal to a specific audience, as if they really understand what will appeal to that audience. Spore, for instance, does not interest me. Neither does Sims. That either of these games has any popularity just proves that I'm not everybody. I'm just saying that regardless of the gameplay structure, neither one of those titles are what I wish to do with my time. So right there they don't get the entirety of the casual gaming market because I will not give them any money for those games. So, they have a smaller subset of the casual gaming market, because I can't be the only one who thinks Spore can go fuck itself. That Sims also appeals to the hardcore demographic is why it managed to be successful, and if Spore does not if the OP can be trusted, then it will most likely fail.
So it is with games. The best casual games appeal to the more hardcore players as well, at least as an in-between "real" game diversion. When developers try to specifically target the casual gaming audience, they tend to just dumb it down to the point that it appeals to nobody. Because, get this y'all, casual gamers are not stupid. They just don't devote long hours to playing games. So games with high learning curves, difficult controls, obtuse concepts, etc do not appeal. Neither does games that require a high-time commitment. We don't have that kind of time. That's why we're casual gamers.
But this does not mean we dislike a game with depth and complexity. In fact, if a game manages to appeal enough for us to sink extra time into it but it turns out to lack real depth, we feel just as cheated as the rabid hardcore gamer. It might take as a little longer to get there, but we probably feel even more cheated since our time is precious. A game without depth feels like a waste of time.
My point is, there are so many factors that goes into making a game and how a game appeals to an audience, that it's pure hubris on the developer's part to try to appeal to a specific audience, as if they really understand what will appeal to that audience. Spore, for instance, does not interest me. Neither does Sims. That either of these games has any popularity just proves that I'm not everybody. I'm just saying that regardless of the gameplay structure, neither one of those titles are what I wish to do with my time. So right there they don't get the entirety of the casual gaming market because I will not give them any money for those games. So, they have a smaller subset of the casual gaming market, because I can't be the only one who thinks Spore can go fuck itself. That Sims also appeals to the hardcore demographic is why it managed to be successful, and if Spore does not if the OP can be trusted, then it will most likely fail.
I wouldn't say that the casual market is wrecking the hardcore industry. The only valid argument is that casual ruined Spore. Hardcore remains a land where casual will stay away from.
As many people have said on this thread, what's really harming hardcore is the cost of producing games of the consumers' expectations. So, to maintain a profit on hardcore games, they'll only play safe and meet the expectations, and not press for anything fancy that would drive costs higher.
As many people have said on this thread, what's really harming hardcore is the cost of producing games of the consumers' expectations. So, to maintain a profit on hardcore games, they'll only play safe and meet the expectations, and not press for anything fancy that would drive costs higher.
Here's an idea. Instead of buying a game on launch day (or pre-ordering), why not wait a few weeks for the reviews to come in? The impulsive and impatient buying habits of the typical gamer is the biggest problem with the quality of games being produced. The solution to the problem is quite simple.
But then how do we get all the cool stuff?Echolocating post=9.72673.768866 said:
Some of us are collectors editions junkies you know.
First to point it out!Marcosco post=9.72673.768740 said:
How is it possible to be a 'casual' movie-goer? All movies are movies, it just depends what type you like. I guess you could say comedies are "casual" and dramas are "hardcore," but you can't really compare people who watch movies to people who play video games.theCardinal post=9.72673.768741 said:
Anyways, after trying to read your argument twice, and failing, I cut-and-pasted it into Microsoft Word and figured out the gist of it. Sir (I use this term very sparingly), I have to seriously doubt that you understand what a "casual" gamer is. Or a period, or a comma, so on, so forth. Most of us Escapists play video games. I wouldn't say everyone here is "hardcore," but I can virtually guarantee everyone has played some kind of video game during their life, whether it be Pong or Halo 3. Casual games are less complex games for a less hardcore demographic. Almost anyone can pick up a casual game and be average at it, but less so for a more "hardcore" videogame. Allow me to clarify. Five minutes ago, I was playing Unreal Tournament 3. In five more minutes, I'll probably be playing N+ on my PC. Admittedly, on Insane, the game isn't that easy. I've beaten N+ twice, and I just play it for kicks now. Most people could grab N+ and be O.K. at it, but not everyone, not even all gamers, can pick up UT3 and not die within the first five seconds on Insane.
Sorry to point this out... but you are part of the problem. If you buy a bag of shit from me for $60 I'll be happy to make you another one... gimee a minute. If you buy shitty game you lose the right to complain about shitty games IMO. The more gamers that join the ranks of "gaming" the higher the chance that the industry will be forced to make intelligent games for people who want more than the mindless 7hour crapfest that makes millions... Adrian.Praelanthor post=9.72673.768688 said:
yes but in development they made it seem better the stuff i saw at leat had a more complex editor and and there was an underwater creature phase.WTEricson post=9.72673.768879 said:
Don't get me wrong, I fall for BS too.... "GTA4 will be the best game ever" people said, "oh... I gotta get that" I said. Are you fucking serious.... Gave to my 13 yr old nephew so he wouldn't buy it and repeat my mistake.
As intelligent gamers we must take on the responsibiliity to change things, you took a step in that for posting this topic, and I commend you for it.
I agree with whoever said that if you keep buying the games for casual gamers, you'll be encouraging game developers to keep popping them out. I'd also like to add in that as much as most (or some depending on the company) game developers are gamers themselves, they're also trying to support themselves on it. I mean, there are games that even casual gamers can appreciate that hardcore gamers like too, but most people who are considered casual gamers don't know about the awesomeness of some games. The game industry is an industry, and they're trying to make money, is my point.
I don't think games specifically for casual gamers are ruining the industry at all. If anything, I'll go as far as to say that it's expanding the game industry and bringing more attention to it outside of arcades and neighborhood DDR tournaments.
I don't think games specifically for casual gamers are ruining the industry at all. If anything, I'll go as far as to say that it's expanding the game industry and bringing more attention to it outside of arcades and neighborhood DDR tournaments.
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr334/bushie09/Casualgamers.png
this is it casual gamers dont like casual gamesthey like normal games which are quick & fun y dont developers understand this every 1 else does.
this is it casual gamers dont like casual gamesthey like normal games which are quick & fun y dont developers understand this every 1 else does.
It's just you... but in a good way. As you get more intelligent "low brow" humor gets less funny to you. I remember as a kid I watched Andrew Dice Clay and LMFAO.... the other day I watched Idiocracy.... I wanted to plung a hot knife into my eyesocket.Reaperman Wompa post=9.72673.768746 said:
I liked that movie...WTEricson post=9.72673.768938 said:
Eh, Whatever I liked it for the message though at times I was like "(insert my name) just get up and walk away, you're only hurting yourself".
