The Conundrum of Relationships

[blind_dead_mcjones]

yes it would be nice if more girls made the first move

moreover i would prefer it if they didn't use subtle hints, i do not recognise these, a clear unambiguous statement of intent would be nice, written even more preferable

 

[Knusper]

Edit: After reading this thread i've now got Motorhead's "The Chase is Better than the Catch" stuck in my head. I quite like Motorhead, but hell i carn't relate to that song at all.

Listening to it now haha.

O.T. Yeah, it would be a bit more convenient for me. I've even been in situations when we both have obviously liked each other, but have neither have asked each other out.

I hate responsibility.

 

[Jolly Madness]

This might just be me, but I've never had that problem. Either they've just approached me and asked if I wanted to try a relationship or they've just straight-out kissed me, I live in a soap-opera. <.<

 

[DJDarque]

Yes please.

I definitely don't have a problem with chatting it up with girls. It just seems like as soon as the prospect of "relationships" (and thus, "reject") comes up, I clam up.
I've only ever managed to get one date so far, and I'm 16. Kind of makes me feel late.

I wish girls would just come up and ask for a date. Would make it much easier.

Oh, and no cutesy subtle hints like smiling and touching your hair, please. I'm terrible with signals.

Fuck dude, you're better off than me and I've got almost 5 years on you.

 

[Spinozaad]

I sense that some people fail to see the dynamics of the courting. Like all social interactions (and yes, all social interactions), the process of courting the opposite sex is structured. Why? Well, because it's convenient to have such informal, unspoken constructions of interaction. Everyone knows what to expect and how to play along.

As a side-note, think about this. How horrible communication would become if we would have no such structures!

One of these structures, and it's the one being decried, is that the guy asks the girl out. This originated in gender patrons in... the 50's, I guess, and is absolutely arbitrary. But it is reality, so... eh... man up for now.

The thing is, another dynamic is that the girl, if she is interested in you, signals this. So that your manly act of manly asking out is really rather redundant, but hey. That's how it works.

If you think, 'Spinozaad, you sexy philosopher of pun, you're talking bullshit!' Just think about it. Ever asked a girl out you absolutely knew was gonna say yes? That's because she already signalled you that she liked you.

So... Is this 'GUY ASKS GIRL, HURRRRR' thing arbitrary and stupid? Certainly. But it's real. It might change, and I would have no problem with girls asking me out and some do, but in general... It's one of those constructs you'll just have to live with.

 

[Capt. Crankypants]

I'd like this. I dunno if this is just a school-based thing, because this sorta stuff seems to happen less once you've been out of school for a while, but I'd like to see any reasonable signs if a girl likes me, rather than just saying to her friends 'he's cute' or 'I wish he'd talk to me'. *shrug*

Not that I'm after a relationship as the moment, it'd be awkward, cuz I wanna move interstate soon, but it'd be a nice feeling to know that someone notices you

I guess it works both ways though. I saw a girl who I thought was gorgeous working at a muffin break, so after a couple of days, I went over and told her I thought she looked gorgeous, and that it was a shame I knew nothing about her, and offered to have lunch. Turns out she has a boyfriend, but what saddened me was she said she's NEVER had anyone else ever just come up to her and ask her out!

How come? She's beautiful. I think everyone needs to become a lil more confident and sure of themselves, male and female alike.

 

[gl1koz3]

Whoever feels like it, has to do the first move. But, please, can we just skip all the pleasantries and move on to sex? All the base building is getting annoying after many matches.

 

[Keepitclean]

.

Oh, and no cutesy subtle hints like smiling and touching your hair, please. I'm terrible with signals.

Same, and it isn't helped when girls that you are "just friends" with do the same thing.
It's even worse when girls say "I will never go out with you because we are just friends" and then do those things because they actually like. It happened to me once before, she couldn't figure out why I didn't catch on when she made it less subtle.

I hate the idea of chatting girls up too, because you don't feel honest and genuine as a person. I want a girlfriend who knows who's shes dating, i'm no liar, i won't exaggerate stories of my bravado or manliness, i'll be myself thank you very much.

Huh, maybe I should try exaggerating stories rather making ones that sound exaggerated. It seems that how you tell the stroy is more imortant than the story itself. Nah, living the 'exaggeration' is wasy more fun.

 

[Spinozaad]

I hate the idea of chatting girls up too, because you don't feel honest and genuine as a person. I want a girlfriend who knows who's shes dating, i'm no liar, i won't exaggerate stories of my bravado or manliness, i'll be myself thank you very much.

Why, if I might ask? Because let's be fair, that's what everyone does. Take a look at your life's biography up to this point. Probably looks like a solid story with continuinity, right? That's what your mind did.

Lying and sanitizing/(re)constructing memories are completely different things. Everyone does the latter. I personally got an entire arsenal of anecdotes which have been edited and re-membered to become smoother and, to be fair, more interesting. Doesn't make them any less true.

Basically, you can exaggerate stories without having fear of no longer 'being your self'. Personally, whenever people 'want to be true to be/remain true to themselves', they're actually trying to find an identity that's no longer really theirs.

 

[Palademon]

I agree. I am a person that feels a bit lonely and one of the only girls to ever be interested in me, told me she liked me for a while, but expects guys to decide whether the oppurtunity for going out should ever appear. Told me this AFTER falling for a guy who is a total flirt and now is with him.

SAD JONNY IS SAD.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I'm actually awful at this. I usually don't realise that they like me in that way and they either ask me out or think I'm not interested and stop bothering (much to my bemusement, it usually takes a bit of explaining by a friend, because I just think 'why has X randomly stopped talking to me? What did I do?')

 

[Thebiggestpanda]

Well bud I'm sorry to tell you this but as the man, you're gonna have to make the first move 85% of the time. The majority of girls out there like to be the one whose aproached and chased. Its just in their DNA. Now, once you've made some kind of connection, plenty of girls will chase you(they like to be the hunter every now and then). Its just a matter of you making the first move and establishing something so that they can be comfortable enough to make moves on you in return. Bottom line, women want to feel wanted to some degree. To be honest, from your post it sounds like you should have no problems picking up girls only your to lazy to just go and do it.

I'm speaking as a guy who has been both hunter and prey so in my experience you're just gonna have to sack up and get your lazy ass out there

P.S. When your with a girl you always need to be fun(very important), relaxed, natural, honest, and spontaneous. Make yourself clear with what you want and be a challenge at the same time. Remember, sometimes saying no and disagreeing is even more important than saying yes. Don't turn yourself into mister boring(predictable) by always agreeing with what she says and going along with her like a lost puppy who isn't his own person. No girl likes a yes man.

 

[Beliyal]

Woman are hard wired to look for powerful men. (To claim otherwise you must discount the possiblity of evolution) If you don't have the guts to ask them out, you don't exactly give them reason to ask you out.

Uh, I'm not really sure it's that simple. Because I asked that kind of a guy out exactly because he was like that (he didn't have the guts). As a matter of fact, I'd take that type of a guy over "powerful" one any time. And I don't think it must be the guy to do the first move. We don't work like people from thousands of years ago. I don't need my boyfriend to catch me a mammoth and beat up other guys in order to like him; I could like a shy boy any time if he's interesting, kind, good looking, whatever. And if I see he shares my feelings, I'll try and ask him out. Also, this "rule" that a guy has to ask the girl out has to go; it's both old and retarded. The one who's less shy should ask, regardless of gender (of course, there are thousands of situations that are not that simple, but if we're talking about 'Who should ask a partner out; a boy or a girl?', it's the wrong question because it shouldn't have to do anything with gender, but with personality. And if both are shy... Well, it wouldn't have worked anyway if the shyness is that severe).

 

[Thebiggestpanda]

So what are The Escapist community's thoughts on this subject? How many guys here wish girls would just ask a guy out instead, for once?

I'm in a very similar situation to you, hell I even live with two other girls like you do.

If push came to shove, i could ask a girl out, but i hate how the males are expected to do it. But, as Bonsai said, we are raised into certain gender rolls, and in many way's society is still sexist, you either conform or find other non-conformists like yourself. My last girlfriend was a bit of a non-conformist, she's the one who asked me out, nothing would have happened between us if she hadn't made the move.

I hate the idea of chatting girls up too, because you don't feel honest and genuine as a person. I want a girlfriend who knows who's shes dating, i'm no liar, i won't exaggerate stories of my bravado or manliness, i'll be myself thank you very much.

Another thing that annoys me about guy's having to make the first move is that you have to know that you like them and want to date them. Hell, i'm an indecisive bugger who's never quite sure if a girl would be right for me or not. It feels like your taking a big risk, and i'm no risk taker. Plus, and perhaps this is tied to my indecisiveness, i don't get the kind of romantic feelings with girls like i used to get in my teenage years, and that hardly motivates me to ask girls out.


But...i completely sympathise with girls who would rather not be in a culture were they have to make the first move....ideally, i just wish things would be 50/50...


Edit: After reading this thread i've now got Motorhead's "The Chase is Better than the Catch" stuck in my head. I quite like Motorhead, but hell i carn't relate to that song at all.

I'm sorry but what? Not to be an ass but you gotta realise that almost ALL girls want a guy who is clear, knows what he wants, and is decisive. Theres no protocol with how to "chat a girl up". You don't have to be an arrogant ass but you also don't have to be the most boring male on the planet either. there is nothing wrong with being yourself. Also, you don't have to worry a bout feeling like a liar as 95% of girls out there will know EXACTLY what you are trying to do when you start talking to them. Also, just about every girl out there is gonna like the fact that her guy is able to take risks for her sake.

P.S. I can understand if you don't know if you like a girl before you make a move on her. To respond to this I give you a question. What ever happened to just aking a chick out and seeing where it goes? You never know when you'll find somebody who's worth keeping.

 

[Nickolai77]

I hate the idea of chatting girls up too, because you don't feel honest and genuine as a person. I want a girlfriend who knows who's shes dating, i'm no liar, i won't exaggerate stories of my bravado or manliness, i'll be myself thank you very much.

Why, if I might ask? Because let's be fair, that's what everyone does. Take a look at your life's biography up to this point. Probably looks like a solid story with continuinity, right? That's what your mind did.

I don't like chatting girls up because i am forced into being a person i'm not. Details to follow, but while i understand that looking back on ones life is like a story with continuity...how is that relevant to chatting up girls?

Lying and sanitizing/(re)constructing memories are completely different things. Everyone does the latter. I personally got an entire arsenal of anecdotes which have been edited and re-membered to become smoother and, to be fair, more interesting. Doesn't make them any less true.

Basically, you can exaggerate stories without having fear of no longer 'being your self'. Personally, whenever people 'want to be true to be/remain true to themselves', they're actually trying to find an identity that's no longer really theirs.

Ok, i'll grant that i was exaggerating when i said that lying was like exaggerating (Is this ironic?) but my point still stands. I don't like telling stories about all the great, good and manly things i've done because i...just don't.

It's down to my personality. I'm a modest person, my style of humour is self-deprecating and i am introverted by nature. (Maybe because i have been at the bottom of many social pecking orders in my life). Conversation doesn't come naturally to me, but i am interested in other people. This leads me to ask questions about other people rather than talk about myself. If you have got the above personality traits, chatting up girls isn't exactly going to be your forte.

[sub]I'm not some sort of depressed train wreck of a human creature btw, i have a number of friends from different places and i am well respected in most of those social circles, i've been academically successful and have a very supportive family, i am reasonably confident that i can do well in life.[/sub]

So what are The Escapist community's thoughts on this subject? How many guys here wish girls would just ask a guy out instead, for once?

I'm in a very similar situation to you, hell I even live with two other girls like you do.

If push came to shove, i could ask a girl out, but i hate how the males are expected to do it. But, as Bonsai said, we are raised into certain gender rolls, and in many way's society is still sexist, you either conform or find other non-conformists like yourself. My last girlfriend was a bit of a non-conformist, she's the one who asked me out, nothing would have happened between us if she hadn't made the move.

I hate the idea of chatting girls up too, because you don't feel honest and genuine as a person. I want a girlfriend who knows who's shes dating, i'm no liar, i won't exaggerate stories of my bravado or manliness, i'll be myself thank you very much.

Another thing that annoys me about guy's having to make the first move is that you have to know that you like them and want to date them. Hell, i'm an indecisive bugger who's never quite sure if a girl would be right for me or not. It feels like your taking a big risk, and i'm no risk taker. Plus, and perhaps this is tied to my indecisiveness, i don't get the kind of romantic feelings with girls like i used to get in my teenage years, and that hardly motivates me to ask girls out.


But...i completely sympathise with girls who would rather not be in a culture were they have to make the first move....ideally, i just wish things would be 50/50...


Edit: After reading this thread i've now got Motorhead's "The Chase is Better than the Catch" stuck in my head. I quite like Motorhead, but hell i carn't relate to that song at all.

I'm sorry but what? Not to be an ass but you gotta realise that almost ALL girls want a guy who is clear, knows what he wants, and is decisive. Theres no protocol with how to "chat a girl up". You don't have to be an arrogant ass but you also don't have to be the most boring male on the planet either. there is nothing wrong with being yourself. Also, you don't have to worry a bout feeling like a liar as 95% of girls out there will know EXACTLY what you are trying to do when you start talking to them. Also, just about every girl out there is gonna like the fact that her guy is able to take risks for her sake.

Oh i know that girls want a confident guy who will make them laugh and buy them drinks and whatnot....and i'm just not like that. I've never walked up to a girl with the intention of chatting them up because i'll have no idea what to say to them. It's not my personality, for more info see my response to Spinozaad. But don't get me wrong, i can meet and talk to girls fine, sit me next to one in a lecture or seminar and i'll talk to them just fine. But they tend to become friends rather than girlfriends. And, being a university student at a time when females outnumber males in higher education, i've made friends with many girls. (But a lot of them have boyfriends to be honest)

P.S. I can understand if you don't know if you like a girl before you make a move on her. To respond to this I give you a question. What ever happened to just aking a chick out and seeing where it goes? You never know when you'll find somebody who's worth keeping.

Like i said, i don't like taking risks. It's not that i'm afraid i'll get rejected, it's that i really don't want to find myself in a relationship which i know won't work and have already invested time and money in.

 

[Thebiggestpanda]

^I really don't get you. It sounds like you want to meet a girl and get involved in something but you're also saying that you don't want to spend any time actually getting a connection going. Basically you want to meet someone who's gonna do all the work and make all the moves while you just bask in the glory of being liked? Thats kinda selfish if you ask me. You don't wanna find someone who's not gonna waste your time and money? Just try saying that to any girl and I guarantee you'll be avoided like the plague. To be honest dude, you kinda sound like a selfe-centered, introverted, jerk.

I don't mean to sound mean when I say this. I'm only telling you like it is and giving constructive criticism.

 

[Legion IV]

Lol whats the point really? Relationships only really end not all so i guess try but really theres not a big point. I only ever dated once. Lasted 2 years then i broke it off.She went into the. I gotta explore and try things i've never tried before (drugs mostley) But really you dont gain alot from a relationship. Love yourself find your passion and your set. You dont need somomne in your life.

Women are a funny bunch. My friend is the nicest guy ever his GF said he was to nice and just bland so she dumped. Then you find those same women who then somehow find the SCUMMIEST men on earth stay with them cause they love them then ruin the lifes of those around them for the next month because of the ensuing drama until it eventually ends.

Alone>>>>Relationships.

Now I'm thinking completely the opposite. You do need someone in your life, otherwise you trigger a feeling that something's always missing. Humans, as a species, aren't meant to live alone. That's why we feel more comfortable among friends, and having one bad relationship doesn't say they're all bad. Okay, so me and my girlfriend only passed the year mark a couple of days ago, but she's a lovely girl, and our relationship really couldn't be any better than it is now.
Hell, she's making me a proper breakfast 'cause I travelled a hundred miles to come see her again.
Breakfast-making women ftw.

I see where your coming from i could argue but i dont want to cause your One of my Lynx bretheran! i cant hate on an AC fan. But in terms of my personality i'll putn it so a AC fan can understand. I guess am Shinkia or mabey Mazel. Am a loner am quiet and only need a few friends and am at my happiest like that.

So were all diffrent but i have mad respect for your avatar. White glint! the legeind dies today!. I miss you leader thermidor. I'll do whats right for orca!.

 

[KefkaCultist]

How many guys here wish girls would just ask a guy out instead, for once?

ME! I'm pretty much just like you; no problems talking to girls and plenty of friends with the xx chromosomes, but I can't for the life of me handle that situation. I've done it twice, the 1st time I made a fool of myself but she thought it was cute. The second time, I made a fool of myself and I got laughed at and rejected.

Now theres a girl I'm interested and I'm pretty sure she is in me as well, but I've passed up the opportunity to ask many times and I just wish she'd ask me.