The Dark Souls PC version controversy.

[GameMaNiAC]

All I've been hearing from PC gamers about Dark souls is constant whining, "Boo hoo, it's 30 fps, it's unplayable!"

Seriously, some people just need to grow up. It's not some god damned conspiracy to sabotage PC gaming, and it sounds crazy if you think it is. It's just 30 fps, console players deal with it all the time, we don't gush tears of blood when something doesn't come in 60 fps.

This pisses me off to no end, I'm an actual Dark Souls fan, and these people balling their eyes out after From Software took the time to actually MAKE a port for them, after thousands of petitions saying "We want the game! We'll play it! WE PROMISE!" has the potential to ruin From Software's reputation and finances for the rest of us.

I seriously hope that, if this continues, the PC wont see another port for a Souls game again, I think all the crying has proven they just plain don't deserve it.

We want a playable, fun port that doesn't stab us in the eyes when we view it on our widescreens.

Because adding higher resolution options and no framerate cap is too much to ask for.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Lemme get this straight - they deliberately ignored 1 simple line of code in an .ini that anyone can edit in any preferred text processor to not piss off console players?

Am I the only one who sees something seriously wrong with the example being set here?!

Edit: This shit happened with Splinter Cell Double Agent on PC, and I quote TV Tropes's Porting Disaster page.
"The game supports a pathetically-low selection of resolutions, not even including full HD or 16:10 resolutions. This is remedied by editing the game's .INI file. Ubisoft's entire team of programmers apparently couldn't figure this out. ".

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Here's something to keep in mind: there is next to no mouse and keyboard support. Think of a console game who's controls are completely broken and you have to buy peripherals to get working. You'd be complaining too.

You mean like Kinect and Move games?
HUr HUr Hur

 

[Comic Sans]

I really don't like this idea going around that "just buying a controller" fixes it. An Xbox controller costs $30-$40. As much as the game costs. If one doesn't already have an Xbox 360, to effectively play Dark Souls requires you to spend about as much as you paid for the game. That's not something a lot of people consider worth it. And in any case, expecting the controls to work to SOME degree on the console you buy it for is not much to ask for. If The Witcher 2 required Xbox players to buy a mouse/keyboard peripheral, and all the in-game prompts used the PC keys rather than Xbox ones, people would have pitched an absolute fit. Since when did it become stupid entitlement for our bloody native controls to work right without basically having to pay for the game twice? I recognize that some games play better with a controller, but the ones I have played were still at least perfectly playable with a M/K.

Also, yes, they had a short time frame. Does that make everything From's fault? No. It's the publishers, and we are still allowed to be upset and not buy the game. When we asked for a PC port, and were told it would be bare bones, the train of thought (at least mine) was that we were getting a PC version without direct upgrades, like DirectX 11 and tessellation and such. It was AFTER the petition that news of how barebones and lacking the PC emulation (for that's what it is) came out. It's not what people wanted when the petition came out. For whatever reason it was (incompetent developer, bad publisher management), the port that came out was bad, nearly on level with Saints Row 2 and Resident Evil 4 (okay, nothing is quite THAT bad). Just because we expressed interest in a port doesn't mean we are obligated to the final product. They did not make the game out of charity, they did it to tap a potential market. If the market doesn't like the product they don't have to buy it. That's capitalism, and I don't see the big deal of buying something that doesn't meet our rather basic standards.

 

[J Tyran]

I think all PC gamers should buy this game. Show your support. It is their first PC title. If you show them that PC is a viable platform, they'll do a better job next time, because now they have experience.

No its not their first PC title its their 3rd, apparently they made a mess of the last game they released on the PC as well. (I don't actually know if that's true, never played it myself just going by what people said at the time)

Regardless giving them money for a bad product will not inspire them to do a better job next time. Buying bad products, especially games has exactly the opposite effect as companies realize they can slap together any old crap and people will buy it.

 

[Vicioussama]

I really don't like this idea going around that "just buying a controller" fixes it. An Xbox controller costs $30-$40. As much as the game costs. If one doesn't already have an Xbox 360, to effectively play Dark Souls requires you to spend about as much as you paid for the game. That's not something a lot of people consider worth it. And in any case, expecting the controls to work to SOME degree on the console you buy it for is not much to ask for. If The Witcher 2 required Xbox players to buy a mouse/keyboard peripheral, and all the in-game prompts used the PC keys rather than Xbox ones, people would have pitched an absolute fit. Since when did it become stupid entitlement for our bloody native controls to work right without basically having to pay for the game twice? I recognize that some games play better with a controller, but the ones I have played were still at least perfectly playable with a M/K.

Also, yes, they had a short time frame. Does that make everything From's fault? No. It's the publishers, and we are still allowed to be upset and not buy the game. When we asked for a PC port, and were told it would be bare bones, the train of thought (at least mine) was that we were getting a PC version without direct upgrades, like DirectX 11 and tessellation and such. It was AFTER the petition that news of how barebones and lacking the PC emulation (for that's what it is) came out. It's not what people wanted when the petition came out. For whatever reason it was (incompetent developer, bad publisher management), the port that came out was bad, nearly on level with Saints Row 2 and Resident Evil 4 (okay, nothing is quite THAT bad). Just because we expressed interest in a port doesn't mean we are obligated to the final product. They did not make the game out of charity, they did it to tap a potential market. If the market doesn't like the product they don't have to buy it. That's capitalism, and I don't see the big deal of buying something that doesn't meet our rather basic standards.

You can get a PS3 controller too and use Motion Joy. Many people tend to have a 360 or PS3 at this rate if they are a gamer. If they don't, whatever. But why is it such a big deal to not have the right tool for the job? You can play it with mouse and keyboard, and ya it's not great, but it was designed for a controller. You could play Guitar Hero or Rock Band with a PS3 or 360 controller, but you play it with a guitar. Why is this so much different? (hint: it's not).

And, honestly, you were the people at fault for having certain expectations. The fact they made it at all and the petition ACTUALLY worked is pretty impressive and something to be proud about. They had no intention of making a PC Version before hand and the short time period is the publisher's fault, but in that short time period they were able to bring the entire game over to the PC version and it works just fine. I've had no issues at all with the game and there are far worse ports. People overreacting to this port is what pisses me off. I agree the port could be better, but people who claim it's the worst port ever need to just stfu. They are doing more harm than good. They aren't giving constructive criticism, they are just discouraging FROM Software from ever making a game for PC again.

I think all PC gamers should buy this game. Show your support. It is their first PC title. If you show them that PC is a viable platform, they'll do a better job next time, because now they have experience.

No its not their first PC title its their 3rd, apparently they made a mess of the last game they released on the PC as well. (I don't actually know if that's true, never played it myself just going by what people said at the time)

Regardless giving them money for a bad product will not inspire them to do a better job next time. Buying bad products, especially games has exactly the opposite effect as companies realize they can slap together any old crap and people will buy it.

What games did they make before for PC? I can't think of any. Their games made for PC tended to be ported by others iirc.

And if you don't want to buy, sure, that's great. But then realize if it sells poorly that they won't make another game for the system again. Business point of view will only care about the sales numbers.

 

[Comic Sans]

You can get a PS3 controller too and use Motion Joy. Many people tend to have a 360 or PS3 at this rate if they are a gamer. If they don't, whatever. But why is it such a big deal to not have the right tool for the job? You can play it with mouse and keyboard, and ya it's not great, but it was designed for a controller. You could play Guitar Hero or Rock Band with a PS3 or 360 controller, but you play it with a guitar. Why is this so much different? (hint: it's not).

And, honestly, you were the people at fault for having certain expectations. The fact they made it at all and the petition ACTUALLY worked is pretty impressive and something to be proud about. They had no intention of making a PC Version before hand and the short time period is the publisher's fault, but in that short time period they were able to bring the entire game over to the PC version and it works just fine. I've had no issues at all with the game and there are far worse ports. People overreacting to this port is what pisses me off. I agree the port could be better, but people who claim it's the worst port ever need to just stfu. They are doing more harm than good. They aren't giving constructive criticism, they are just discouraging FROM Software from ever making a game for PC again.

The difference between Rock Band and Dark Souls is that Dark Souls is a standard third person game while Rock Band is a specialty niche title. When you buy Rock Band, needing the peripherals is to be expected because of the nature of the game. What's the excuse of Dark Souls? I've played plenty of console ports who's controls worked fine. From what I've seen of Dark Souls playing without a controller is a nightmare. You shouldn't require a $40 peripheral to play a standard third person game to any reasonable degree. If you don't have a console (and really, not all PC gamers have a console, because we have our PCs for that), then you have to go out and spend as much as you spent on the game just to play it, effectively doubling the price to above a brand new AAA game. A game working better with a controller is fine, but it still needs to at least have keyboard controls good enough that you can play the game on them, since it's our naive control setup.

Whether it's the publisher's fault or not, we still have a right to point out the problems and choose not to buy it. Again, asking for a game that conforms to the most basic of industry features is not that big of a deal. We were not asking for DX11 or tessellation or any other PC upgrades. Having the game be a blurry, 30 FPS experience that's annoying to play with our default control setup (made harder by in-game prompts being in Xbox controls) is not what people wanted in a port. Some people are okay with it, and bought it. Others aren't okay with it. Them making the game wasn't charity, so people not to stop acting like we should be thanking them for it. They made it because there was a market and they figured a cheap port would net them profits. Now, to be fair, the game looks quite good and maybe during a Steam sale I'll pick it up on the cheap. However, paying $40 for a bad port is not something I want to do.

 

[Vicioussama]

You can get a PS3 controller too and use Motion Joy. Many people tend to have a 360 or PS3 at this rate if they are a gamer. If they don't, whatever. But why is it such a big deal to not have the right tool for the job? You can play it with mouse and keyboard, and ya it's not great, but it was designed for a controller. You could play Guitar Hero or Rock Band with a PS3 or 360 controller, but you play it with a guitar. Why is this so much different? (hint: it's not).

And, honestly, you were the people at fault for having certain expectations. The fact they made it at all and the petition ACTUALLY worked is pretty impressive and something to be proud about. They had no intention of making a PC Version before hand and the short time period is the publisher's fault, but in that short time period they were able to bring the entire game over to the PC version and it works just fine. I've had no issues at all with the game and there are far worse ports. People overreacting to this port is what pisses me off. I agree the port could be better, but people who claim it's the worst port ever need to just stfu. They are doing more harm than good. They aren't giving constructive criticism, they are just discouraging FROM Software from ever making a game for PC again.

The difference between Rock Band and Dark Souls is that Dark Souls is a standard third person game while Rock Band is a specialty niche title. When you buy Rock Band, needing the peripherals is to be expected because of the nature of the game. What's the excuse of Dark Souls? I've played plenty of console ports who's controls worked fine. From what I've seen of Dark Souls playing without a controller is a nightmare. You shouldn't require a $40 peripheral to play a standard third person game to any reasonable degree. If you don't have a console (and really, not all PC gamers have a console, because we have our PCs for that), then you have to go out and spend as much as you spent on the game just to play it, effectively doubling the price to above a brand new AAA game. A game working better with a controller is fine, but it still needs to at least have keyboard controls good enough that you can play the game on them, since it's our naive control setup.

Whether it's the publisher's fault or not, we still have a right to point out the problems and choose not to buy it. Again, asking for a game that conforms to the most basic of industry features is not that big of a deal. We were not asking for DX11 or tessellation or any other PC upgrades. Having the game be a blurry, 30 FPS experience that's annoying to play with our default control setup (made harder by in-game prompts being in Xbox controls) is not what people wanted in a port. Some people are okay with it, and bought it. Others aren't okay with it. Them making the game wasn't charity, so people not to stop acting like we should be thanking them for it. They made it because there was a market and they figured a cheap port would net them profits. Now, to be fair, the game looks quite good and maybe during a Steam sale I'll pick it up on the cheap. However, paying $40 for a bad port is not something I want to do.

I would argue Dark Souls is NOT a standard third person game... not at all. Demon's and Dark Souls are actually very niche and are getting REALLY popular and thus creating a more popular genre. I mean, Guitar Hero was the same, and then created the genre of such rhythm based games and whatnot.

So I disagree with your entire claim that they are different in that way so it's ok to require a special controller for one, but not the other. Honestly, how many other games like Dark or Demon's Souls can you think of? No game I can really think of. Closest recently might be Dragon's Dogma, but even that isn't.

Just cause it's third person doesn't mean it was like other third persons. Believe it or not, there WERE rhythm games prior to Guitar Hero.

Honestly, what real gamer doesn't already have a 360 or PS3 controller? both can EASILY be used with a computer. Hell, even a Wii controller can be easily. The PC is very malleable. I'm just not buying the argument.

As for not buying it, fair point. But realize that means they WILL NOT sell for that system if it sells poorly on it. Why? Because they saw it sell poorly and that won't encourage them to waste their time developing for it. If you're ok with that, so be it. What's sad is you think the game is bad when, no, it really is better on PC than on console. Capped frames aren't a big deal (no, they really aren't) and it doesn't have any frame drops. The only people I've seen have issues are those with shit computers or they're running fraps which effs some shit up at times.

30 FPS isn't a big deal, if you think it is, you really did NOT play with it and are just bitching on the bitching point that everyone else has jumped on. In which case, stop being a sheep. In fact, since you admit you haven't picked it up yet and waiting for a Steam sale you really have no right to claim the 30 FPS is a problem when you haven't experienced it as far as we can tell. You can claim "well I watched videos" and I can go "Fraps" or you can go "I played at a friend's house" and I don't necessarily say you didn't, but I'm not gonna believe you at this point since you seem to want to just ***** about it to ***** about it cause that's what everyone is bitching about. 30 FPS is fine. It still looks fine and the gameplay IS fine. Hell, as I've stated, the gameplay would be very changed if the frames were not capped to what the console was at. They'd have to go through and deal with all the timings of every single attack and move and that's a LOT more time than they had offered. And then they'd still have to cap it at a different FPS cause saying they should account for ALL FPS is even more time they didn't have. Your expectations are stupid in this regards for something really not a big deal.

The in game prompts being XBox controls was pretty stupid, as a developer I know how easy that'd have been to change. But that still seems too nitpicky. When there are REAL ports that don't even WORK out there and people complain this is the worst port of all time? I call bullshit and stupidity. And I wouldn't even call it a bad port. Just a mediocre port of a great game. Game is still great. You're missing out. And so be it, that's your choice. But I'd argue it's one made on ignorance and poor logic.