The Daterape Line

[Thaluikhain]

Taking away someone's ability to consent? Yeah, that's obviously wrong, as in "what is wrong with you?1" wrong.

Or, to put it another way, by a strange coincidence, I've discovered that my kidneys are failing, and I need yours. Fortunately, I've gotten hold of a drug that will make you want to sacrifice your kidneys. Or some mind control thing for the same.

Now, if I were to use these to get your kidneys, which you wouldn't otherwise do, wouldn't you be just a little bit extremely pissed off, and demanding the law came down on me like a ton of bricks?

And Viagra is an interesting example, but does Viagra really make you horny? Or just give your body the extra stuff to maintain an erection?

Viagra makes a man more capable of having sex. The so-called female Viagra that gets mentioned every so often makes a woman want to have sex. It's really not good that those two are equated.

 

[el_kabong]

I decided to sully my browse history by looking up rape laws. Really, both scenarios are rape because what you are talking about is the removal of the ability to properly consent.

The first scenario is indeed date rape (or at least the closest legal approximation of the term, usually referred to as Drug-Induced Rape). As stated in the act I linked below, giving them drugs without their consent is the key. From there, you have to have intent to commit rape as typically defined through lack of consent. The prosecution would have to prove that the person on the receiving end could not give proper consent (which is probably pretty easy).

The second scenario is not technically date rape because date rape as an act doesn't seem to be legally defined anywhere (again, see legal definitions as part of legalese below). However, as before, you are taking away someones ability to consent. Because what you are talking about in the scenario is a "Jedi Mind Trick", you are making the decisions for them. Legally, you can't give yourself consent, so it's rape.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ305/pdf/PLAW-104publ305.pdf

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

A much more interesting scenario would be if they had administered the drug themselves could they could be considered capable of still giving consent?

One could make the point that they've already made a decision. I'm not entirely sure how it would go legally, though but it does seem to me that if they willingly took the drug then they had the intention of giving consent.

[

That makes sense. Although it could always be argued that maybe they took it with a particular person in mind, so whilst they had consented to sex, they hadn't necessarily consented to sex with you.

Admittedly, it's highly unlikely that someone doing that would be going out instead of staying in, but still.

 

[Spinozaad]

If explicit consensual sex in a sober state of mind is the only scenario in which The Act is certainly not an instance of rape, than a lot of the late night fornication during the weekend exists in a morally grey area...

I'd say it's only rape if there's no choice and/or no acknowledgement of the decision to cancel/stop the fornication.

I.e. a girl hot from booze or MDMA who cheerfully wants The D.? That's consensual, her intoxicated state of mind notwithstanding. Any regrets the day after (as we so often see portrayed For Teh Lulz in fiction)? Shouldn't have popped the pill/downed the wine. Congratulations, you just learned a valuable life lesson.

The same girl who recants her initial desire to enjoy his bratwurst to her sauerkraut, but he still goes ahead? That's rape.

 

[souper soup guy]

There is a simple line, that exists here and for many situations like this
Just ask yourself "Wait am I being a date rapist here"
If the answer isn't instantly no, then you probably shouldn't continue.

That said, the first one is date rape, it is altering their state of mind with drugs without their consent, which is not acceptable.

The second I'm having trouble understanding. Is it a they literally cannot help but be seduced, no matter who, how, or what happens. That seems just a little bit to far removed from reality for me to take seriously.