A lot of of people complain that gaming is more like a job now. I don't mind some grinding or sitting threw some of the boring parts of games to get a great experience.
The decline of *Hardcore* gaming
- Thread starter OnceandFutureGamer
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You say this like I'm some insect leeching off of society, who doesn't have responsibilities or bills of his own to pay. Stop assuming. The games were harder, "cheap" difficulty or no. And plenty of people find shooting the same Nazi a thousand times is great enteratinment as well. My eyes are open, and most of the games I play now I feel like I've done before, again and again. Yes, there are exceptions. But those are so few and far between.Joshing said:
Hardcore Gaming: C64 was my platform for beginning, you never blamed the game for losing, you blamed yourself (or your little brother for bugging you at the critical moment). You understood that if you had a little more patience, a little more skill, and a little more understanding, you would beat it next time.
Thats what makes a Hard-Core gamer to me.
Grinding is not hardcore, its wasting time or bad game economic development.
Why did people love Portal? because you had 1 life per level. you either solved the level and proceeded, or you died and started again. Thats Hard-core concept.
Why was Max Payne such a great game, was it Bullet time? or was it the fact that there was 'hardcore' mode, where you had 1 save and only 1 save per level. Thats Hard-core.
Diablo II Hardcore? you die, your dead. start again. Thats Hard-core.
Why is Snowboarding Hardcore? because you have to fall down 500 times before you learn how to stand. and when you Do? its a great thrill, defeating your inner fears, learning how to succeed after failing time and time again. But each time, learning just a little more.
Hardcore is when the stakes are high enough to take you out of the game completely, because you didn't have the skills or the patience to get any further.
Separating the Wheat from the Chaff. Thats what made Hardcore, Hardcore. When you could go to school and brag about getting to the 4th level in Bionic Commando (C64) or the 3rd Temple in Aztec Challenge, or getting more than 15 Coals in Monty Mole.
Bragging rights, Thats what the Hard-core player had.
In modern games almost anyone can complete a game, knowing the ending of a game is not so satisfying if everyone saw it.. and instead the focus became on acquistion of items within the game. Grinding level after level to win the game as 999th level with the Super Dooper armour of the gods, became more important than winning the game itself.
Partly because modern values changed too. Schools started teaching that being competitive was not as healthy as being a good sport, winning was not as important as how you played the game. And Modern Culture started to focus more of consumerism, which reflected in our games, gaining more goods, gotta catch em All, acquiring the full set of Arcane Valum, etc etc.
Modern games don't cater to the Bragging rights, because there are too many people posting online how to get through a game, so even if you were so clever to beat the game, your friends could also claim (with evidence) that they had beat it too, but they would never admit to the walkthrough they owned.
Only personal self accomplishment remained for the Hard-core gamer. Which, may give someone a confidence boost, it translates less into modern life, like the bragging rights used to do.
I think for the Hardcore gamer, a new genre of game needs to emerge. 1 life MMO, staying alive, being a 15th level D&D character in a system wide, fair, well constructed game, would be an accomplishment, and then the challenge for the new emergent Hardcore gamer is staying alive, and bragging rights is obvious.. the existence of your living character.
(apologies for the length of that..)
Thats what makes a Hard-Core gamer to me.
Grinding is not hardcore, its wasting time or bad game economic development.
Why did people love Portal? because you had 1 life per level. you either solved the level and proceeded, or you died and started again. Thats Hard-core concept.
Why was Max Payne such a great game, was it Bullet time? or was it the fact that there was 'hardcore' mode, where you had 1 save and only 1 save per level. Thats Hard-core.
Diablo II Hardcore? you die, your dead. start again. Thats Hard-core.
Why is Snowboarding Hardcore? because you have to fall down 500 times before you learn how to stand. and when you Do? its a great thrill, defeating your inner fears, learning how to succeed after failing time and time again. But each time, learning just a little more.
Hardcore is when the stakes are high enough to take you out of the game completely, because you didn't have the skills or the patience to get any further.
Separating the Wheat from the Chaff. Thats what made Hardcore, Hardcore. When you could go to school and brag about getting to the 4th level in Bionic Commando (C64) or the 3rd Temple in Aztec Challenge, or getting more than 15 Coals in Monty Mole.
Bragging rights, Thats what the Hard-core player had.
In modern games almost anyone can complete a game, knowing the ending of a game is not so satisfying if everyone saw it.. and instead the focus became on acquistion of items within the game. Grinding level after level to win the game as 999th level with the Super Dooper armour of the gods, became more important than winning the game itself.
Partly because modern values changed too. Schools started teaching that being competitive was not as healthy as being a good sport, winning was not as important as how you played the game. And Modern Culture started to focus more of consumerism, which reflected in our games, gaining more goods, gotta catch em All, acquiring the full set of Arcane Valum, etc etc.
Modern games don't cater to the Bragging rights, because there are too many people posting online how to get through a game, so even if you were so clever to beat the game, your friends could also claim (with evidence) that they had beat it too, but they would never admit to the walkthrough they owned.
Only personal self accomplishment remained for the Hard-core gamer. Which, may give someone a confidence boost, it translates less into modern life, like the bragging rights used to do.
I think for the Hardcore gamer, a new genre of game needs to emerge. 1 life MMO, staying alive, being a 15th level D&D character in a system wide, fair, well constructed game, would be an accomplishment, and then the challenge for the new emergent Hardcore gamer is staying alive, and bragging rights is obvious.. the existence of your living character.
(apologies for the length of that..)
I've always detested this "Us vs Them" hardcore vs casual mentality. Get over it folks. Games are for everyone now. Let down the rope ladder to your super secret "No Girls Allowed" treehouse and accept the fact games aren't just for the social outcasts anymore. Fun is a universal concept and no one will be impressed if you put 'Beat Ninja Gaiden' on your resume`.
I've been noticing this trend in recent times, but its really ramped up a notch much more this generation very specifically... probably because of the introduction of casual players, and people wanting to make their games approachable to them...
ugh
ugh
Personally, I think that if someone wants to spend 500 hours a day levelling up their 8th character on WoW then I'm happy for them to do that. Equally, if someone wants to get Singstar so they can have a bit of fun with some friends and a bottle of Lambrini then I don't want to be the games nazi that insults them for it.
I don't think there is a decline in hardcore gaming, the fact that sites like The Escapist exist and contain such debate support my thoughts. However there is a greater increase in casual gaming with Nintendo aiming themselves at people who weren't into games before. While some of these people may only get Wii Sports and leave it at that, I believe there will be quite a few who get drawn into other games. Let's welcome them in and show them around, instead of turning our noses up at their ignorant ways.
I believe an article on here said something along the lines of "A big tough guy looking down on other kids at school for not being big and tough is mean. But a small weedy guy looking down on other people because they aren't as big and tough as him on a computer game is just sad."
I don't think there is a decline in hardcore gaming, the fact that sites like The Escapist exist and contain such debate support my thoughts. However there is a greater increase in casual gaming with Nintendo aiming themselves at people who weren't into games before. While some of these people may only get Wii Sports and leave it at that, I believe there will be quite a few who get drawn into other games. Let's welcome them in and show them around, instead of turning our noses up at their ignorant ways.
I believe an article on here said something along the lines of "A big tough guy looking down on other kids at school for not being big and tough is mean. But a small weedy guy looking down on other people because they aren't as big and tough as him on a computer game is just sad."
Hardcore gamings the same as it ever was, publishers are just now being paid to make and making far more money from shovelware you would normally only see when a consoles on the verge of death.
Casual gamers are far easier to please for various reasons, you could argue they're more stupid, but two things they definatly are is less skilled at gaming and less likely to pirate games and buy them for real. Now from a publishers point of view who wants to do more work and get paid less? Not everything from casual gaming has been bad either, it's reminded the industry that sometimes simple is better and that the top priority should ALWAYS be fun.
Hardcore gamings never going to die out, it's just going to take a back seat like indie music does in the music industry, while casual gaming is going to get flocks of sheep like in pop music falling for gimmicks.
Casual gamers are far easier to please for various reasons, you could argue they're more stupid, but two things they definatly are is less skilled at gaming and less likely to pirate games and buy them for real. Now from a publishers point of view who wants to do more work and get paid less? Not everything from casual gaming has been bad either, it's reminded the industry that sometimes simple is better and that the top priority should ALWAYS be fun.
Hardcore gamings never going to die out, it's just going to take a back seat like indie music does in the music industry, while casual gaming is going to get flocks of sheep like in pop music falling for gimmicks.
you have completely missed the point of the thread. Please instead of trying to add a snide comment in, first things first, understand the contentBiscuitWheels said: