The dreaded water level

[Rich Webb]

I was going to ask what games people remember for having the most contemptible water levels but I did a forum search and found some pretty good fodder. My next thought was as follows:

Although I appreciate the addition of water does bring a new mechanic to a game, in almost every example it makes me want to avoid the water, skip the level or just stop playing the game from that point onward. It's not always this much of a dramatic issue of course. I normally just deal with it (especially on a first play through) and carry on enjoyment afterwards.

This got me thinking: What is the relationship between water levels and play testing/focus group pandering? I'd love to hear from people who have an understanding of how these practices were executed back in the "golden age" of classic consoles too. Do water levels get this typical bad feedback during play testing phases? If so, does this normally lead to scrapping water sections or just patching them up? In an age of 'safe bet' games, are water levels on the decline?

Some of these are probably dumb questions but game design is something that fascinates me even though I don't really have a talent for it.

Thank Christ for the gravity suit. Ammarite!!?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Oh god...

Labyrinth Zone flashbacks...

I can breeze through that game with my eyes closed now, but Sonic the Hedgehog was my first ever video game, and despite having one of the best sountracks in the series, I used to loathe that level. The slow pace, the drowning mechanic, the hazards, oh man, that level used to fuck me up big time.


To this day, the drowning music puts me on edge like no other.

 

[nokori3byo]

No idea what makes the bad water levels bad--perhaps due in part to the high-profile nature of some of the more notorious ones like the Water Temple? It's always been considered something of a scrappy mechanic, subjecting players to the ordeal of having to navigate water while risking drowning. As such, it can be seen as the weakest part of an otherwise well-regarded game. There's also the fact that, in the past, a game's water level might have been the only time the swimming mechanic was thoroughly used, so less work went into perfecting it.

Interestingly though, the 7th gen saw water levels occasionally becoming a highlight of games like Uncharted 3 and at least a welcome change of pace in AC IV, so they're not invariably bad. The underwater bits in GTA V were also pretty tight, I thought.

 

[josemlopes]

No idea what makes the bad water levels bad

Its very time based since you have to manage to avoid drowning, add to that the fact that most of the times the player is a slow swimmer and visibility is lower, its very easy to understand why it sucks.

For me the worst part really is the drowning, having to constantly hit the "air checkpoints" was just annoying in those games, if the character has an infinite supply of air I really dont mind and it can work well if the scenery is nice for exploration

 

[nokori3byo]

No idea what makes the bad water levels bad

Its very time based since you have to manage to avoid drowning, add to that the fact that most of the times the player is a slow swimmer and visibility is lower, its very easy to understand why it sucks.

For me the worst part really is the drowning, having to constantly hit the "air checkpoints" was just annoying in those games, if the character has an infinite supply of air I really dont mind and it can work well if the scenery is nice for exploration

This was very much the case in the diving segments of AC IV, but I actually didn't mind them. They are super tense as everything is trying to kill you and drowning is a persistent hazard. At a certain point in the game, however, they are the only areas that pose a challenge.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

To this day, the drowning music puts me on edge like no other.

I don't think there's anyone who ever played a Sonic game that tune hasn't pavlov'd into sheer terror.

Still, Hydrocity Zone is probably my favorite level in the 2d games. A lot of the water sections are still pretty fast if you know what you're doing and you can avoid a lot of them with the right route. It also helps that the music is totally gnarly.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

To this day, the drowning music puts me on edge like no other.

I don't think there's anyone who ever played a Sonic game that tune hasn't pavlov'd into sheer terror.

Still, Hydrocity Zone is probably my favorite level in the 2d games. A lot of the water sections are still pretty fast if you know what you're doing and you can avoid a lot of them with the right route. It also helps that the music is totally gnarly.

Oh yer, Hyrdocity is totally my favourite level in all the 2D Sonic games. Water levels done right, son!

I can't access Youtube aT work, but look up 'Walk on Water Project Chaos' on Youtube.

Best remix of that track ever.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Ever since I was unsuspectingly sucked into an fan's propellers at a tender young age in Tomb Raider II, I've had gaming hydrophobia and have approached any water section in games with a palpable sense of dread.

 

[hermes]

I may be in the minority here, but I think the water levels in Super Mario Bros were among my favorite levels in that game. Possibly because Mario doesn't need to breath, and that soothing music.

My least favorite are the underwater levels in DMC 1. Not only the controls are rubbish, but the game becomes a shitty FPS at that point.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

I suppose I can understand why people dread water levels but I tend to disagree. Water Temple is actually my favorite dungeon in Ocarina of Time.

 

[Alarien]

Mostly water levels tend to have really bad controls/camera causing the level to be harder than it should be. Tomb Raider II was notoriously bad for this. One of my only massive gripes with ACIV (a game I otherwise loved) besides all the tailing was the horrible controls of the diving bell sections.

On the other hand, done well, water levels can be a ton of fun. As hermes200 says above me, Super Mario games usually did water levels pretty well.

However, my absolute #1 worst levels of any game in 30 years of serious gaming involving water are the goddamned goddawful waverunner sections of Uncharted 1. People who know me know that I absolutely despised Uncharted 1 (though I did like Uncharted 2) and, for me, the diarrhea icing on the shit pie that was that game were the waverunner sections.

Rule #1 of action games: If you're going to have a vehicle section, the vehicle section should be fun as hell, a bonus to the regular gameplay and something you really look forward to, not something with terrible controls and mechanics (how did I set off an exploding barrel by lightly brushing my little toe against it?) that you have to endure to get back to the main game (I'm looking at you Gears of War). Vehicle sections should be a treat, not a trick. For good examples, see FEAR2's mech sections and CoD IV's AC-130 (yeah, CoD, bleh, but credit where credit is due at least here).

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Good grief I just remembered all the water sections from Indiana Jones & The Infernal Machine. My default answer though is usually the Donkey Kong Country 3 level where it's an underwater sewer riddled with instant death AND the controls do a full 180° so up is down, left is right and good fucking luck with that.

Anyway, I think water levels are there to shake up gameplay a little bit in a lazy, cheap kind of way - physics get altered, controls get altered, you're forced to adapt to a different gameplay style altogether. I think these used to be more popular in older games because they needed to ramp up the difficulty whatever means necessary to lengthen the experience (you know, "Nintendo Hard"). I can't think of any recent dreaded water level, frankly.

 

[Rich Webb]

Hmm interesting...

I can't help but picture a design meeting at a game studio where the project leader storms in and says:


"No one likes water levels!"
"But we spent ages making it look pretty and the soundtrack kicks ass!"
"Well we just got back a ton of data from players of the last installment of the series and they all say it would be so much better without the water level so..."
"It stays or we all walk!"
"Fine, keep your stupid water level!

Or something like that...

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I can say that some of the Mario levels were annoying (take your pick, but honestly the SMB3 island world were some of the worst). Some of the best remembered water levels were in Soul Reaver 2, only for the hilarity factor of watching a friend of mine who was extremely drunk trying to get out of the water.

 

[Something Amyss]

No idea what makes the bad water levels bad--perhaps due in part to the high-profile nature of some of the more notorious ones like the Water Temple? It's always been considered something of a scrappy mechanic, subjecting players to the ordeal of having to navigate water while risking drowning. As such, it can be seen as the weakest part of an otherwise well-regarded game. There's also the fact that, in the past, a game's water level might have been the only time the swimming mechanic was thoroughly used, so less work went into perfecting it.

Interestingly though, the 7th gen saw water levels occasionally becoming a highlight of games like Uncharted 3 and at least a welcome change of pace in AC IV, so they're not invariably bad. The underwater bits in GTA V were also pretty tight, I thought.

It also doesn't hurt that most games aren't really designed with them in mind, and so the mechanics are very often slap-dash. This seems less true for newer games (which often have out-of-the-box physics engines and such), but it's hard to shake years of training.

I could reliably get through the water level in TMNT, but it still conditioned me to hate water levels.

My least favorite are the underwater levels in DMC 1. Not only the controls are rubbish, but the game becomes a shitty FPS at that point.

I...I LITERALLY do not remember underwater levels in DMC. I beat that game like 10 times, too.

*YouTubes it*

Oh my God, how did I block that out???

 

[Shocksplicer]

Donkey Kong Country had some bloody fantastic water levels, from gameplay to soundtrack. Ahh, good memories...

 

[Signa]

Anyway, I think water levels are there to shake up gameplay a little bit in a lazy, cheap kind of way - physics get altered, controls get altered, you're forced to adapt to a different gameplay style altogether. I think these used to be more popular in older games because they needed to ramp up the difficulty whatever means necessary to lengthen the experience (you know, "Nintendo Hard"). I can't think of any recent dreaded water level, frankly.

This is exactly why I think losing water levels in games today is a bad thing. It breaks the monotony of the game, and forces you to adapt to a new set of rules once you have mastered the original set.

 

[suitepee7]

I...I LITERALLY do not remember underwater levels in DMC. I beat that game like 10 times, too.

*YouTubes it*

Oh my God, how did I block that out???

teach me...

when somebody mentions water levels to me i think of the underwater boss in croc: legend of the gobbos. you were slow, and the controls sucked ass... that's why i hate them, bad controls and moving slower than a snail

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Metal Gear Solid 2. I hate the underwater section. I hate it, I hate it, I HATE IT! And it doesn't even last long. So imagine how awful it has to be in order to generate that amount of hate in me.

 

[Flatfrog]

Ever since I was unsuspectingly sucked into an fan's propellers at a tender young age in Tomb Raider II, I've had gaming hydrophobia and have approached any water section in games with a palpable sense of dread.

In general, swimming in Tomb Raider was always terrifying, mostly because her drowning animation was so upsetting. I particularly remember the bit just after the bear in the second level of the very first Tomb Raider, because it was such a short way into the game and it was really confusing - I died so many times and had to kill that damn bear every time it restarted.