The Dumbing Down of Video Games

[More Fun To Compute]

That's not necessarily true. A lot of XBL players I know are wisening up to the fact that most recent games are, in fact, droll. To be frank, we're getting a bit sick of it.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Optimus Hagrid]

That's not necessarily true. A lot of XBL players I know are wisening up to the fact that most recent games are, in fact, droll. To be frank, we're getting a bit sick of it.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

AAAAAAW :facepalm: Sorry, I'm just pisspoor at English in general.

Fine. Replace it with boring.

I blame my Aunt.

 

[elitecrewer]

Who needs a solid plot and a decent ending when you have explosions and super mutants?

Fuck yes, my thoughts exactly. As in, I'm with you and hate RPGs steadily progressing from Planescape to Fallout 3 during the last 10 years.

 

[BlueMartian]

I'm off to play a video game, remember when we used to play those? Instead of arguing about them all day?

PS: I'm not telling you which one, you'll think I'm a retard

 

[Moeez]

How has this gone to 6 pages when the OP clearly has a soapbox of elitism, and is near bordering on trolling? And how are you bringing IQ into this? If you were intelligent, you'd know IQ tests are TERRIBLE quantifiers of a person's intellgence. Even dumb people can get perfect scores on IQ tests, it's just a test of whether your brain is functioning or not e.g. intellectual disability.

So what if game genres have exploded, and point-and-click isometric PC games aren't the biggest sellers? So what if console games sell the most? Why should you care what games sell, you should just get the game you want. Games with deep stories are STILL being made, it's not like they've died out. You know, you can still have a deep story AND explosions and guns and all that jazz.

How about go play some shooters with deep storytelling? The Darkness, Brothers in Arms, Max Payne, Call of Cthulhu, etc.

There should be an Senile Gamers Union.

 

[Scarecrow38]

I do think though.. that we overromantisise the old games. We all champion Goldeneye 64 as one of the great FPSs for instance. But, be honest, would you rather I gave you my copy of Goldeneye 64 tomorrow or my copy of Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare?

In all honesty I really like the modern game market. The older games may, in some cases have had more depth, but the controls weren't very flexible.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

How about go play some shooters with deep storytelling? The Darkness, Brothers in Arms, Max Payne, Call of Cthulhu, etc.

Problem solved. Just forget about RPGs as they are not as good as FPS. It was obvious all along really.

 

[Kuhkren]

Relax OP, frustration and name calling won't solve much . I've only played one on your list, Planetscape Torment, and I loved it. Another two I appreciate dialogue/plot-wise are Majora's Mask and Persona 3 and 4. Why you may inquire? It is because both games have a very strong character dialogue and personal stories that really pull you into their lives. Majora's mask, three day doomsday which I thought was unique. To me the interpersonal conflict and drama, especially the love storyline, was very appealing. Same thing with Persona 3 and 4, it wasn't the main plot that was deep and involving, but it was the intimate relationship one formed with the characters throughout the game through well written dialogue.

Psychonauts represents another side of this discussion. Instead of the main plot being deep and thought provoking, it was the environment. Not always words that are involving to me, but the way the game presents itself. The take on human psychology I felt was rather clever and very stimulating in private contemplation on the workings of the human mind. Even Shadow of the Colossus, which had a shitty main plot, still asked the question, "Is it alright to kill these magnificient beings for a love possibly unrequited?"

Just stating that sometimes the depth and meaning of a story is up to the player, and how they experience and perceive it. Whether it be a mass of messages or one which is hard to answer. Now there are games that really strive make the player feel it like Planetscape Torment, but I felt forcefeed some of the messages, like I was being preached to rather than feeling it. A personal example of the difference between being told through literary and verbal means, and seeing with feeling (environments and action).

As a last note, there are games I feel have very little to glean from like Gears of War and Halo because there are very weak subtle and overt messages. Not so good character development, if any, and a rather linear kill the bad guys and save everyone. No moral conflict, emotional weakness or confusion, or subtle allusions to philosophical questions/current day events which cause questioning.

Now a lot of this is personal opinion and I'm not criticizing the OP because I believe we share similar points. Wanted to give you an option of expanding the idea of depth to the role of environment and action in portraying depth and posing questions as well. My suggestions of games may not agree with you as well hahahaha.

 

[VTNC]

What about Half Life 2, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, and Portal, to name just a few? I believe you are merely viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses, as it were.

Bioshock had color-coded enemies, no inventory, a hacking system which paused the ingame world and an effortless and costless respawn system

Compared to System Shock 2 it was utterly retarded

 

[jamesworkshop]

first off i hate the bioshock/system shock comparison considering that Shodan was an A.I with a god complex with an aggressivly sexual demeanor (think dominatrix) and a petty streak that makes her almost human (coupled with her maternal instincts)
Bioshock is a riposte of Atlas shrugged showing the flaws inherant in objectivisms romanticism of how men should behave with the reality that no human is perfect, the complete opposite of Ayn Rand's flawless male protagonists along with the broad subjects like the nature of government or lack thereof in controling the populous and the way industry can behave when everybody can do as they please.
Video games are not dumbing down look at the wider industry most games were not as good as BG back in their day which is why it recived such praise and fondly remembered by those who played it when 90% of the current games and those before were mindless copies of arcade games

 

[Yokai]

Two words:
Console Tards

I agree, like most everyone else. The majority of console owners just want to kill things in pretty environments and care little for the storyline or even the gameplay. I have a feeling that if you made a game that was exactly like Halo 3 just with different weapons and a different setting, it would be a smash hit. Fortunately for us, not all developers have fallen to this level. Bioware, Bethesda, and Valve are among the few that haven't.

That's not necessarily true. A lot of XBL players I know are wisening up to the fact that most recent games are, in fact, droll. To be frank, we're getting a bit sick of it.

Well, that's a spark of hope, at least. Good to hear.

 

[quack35]

Two words:
Console Tards

I agree, like most everyone else. The majority of console owners just want to kill things in pretty environments and care little for the storyline or even the gameplay. I have a feeling that if you made a game that was exactly like Halo 3 just with different weapons and a different setting, it would be a smash hit. Fortunately for us, not all developers have fallen to this level. Bioware, Bethesda, and Valve are among the few that haven't.

That's not necessarily true. A lot of XBL players I know are wisening up to the fact that most recent games are, in fact, droll.

... do you even know what droll means?

 

[Valentine82]

More Fun To Compute Well, when I brought up the general trend in evolution, it was because I've noticed that there are an almost endless amount of idiot frat boys who will be perfectly contented with any title that has big breasts and explosion in it, regardless of bad the writing and how moronic the story driven elements and plot devices are.

How does that make them stupid?

How the hell can you judge someone's intelligence based on their game preferences?

Also, he critiques only the plot and story-line, so does he wish to rule out fun games that lack story, such as gears?

Two things, I'm not a he and I critique other elements of games as well so you're wrong on both accounts.

And no, I'm not judging people's intelligence based on their game preferences. If that's what you took from what I said, try a course on reading comprehension.

How has this gone to 6 pages when the OP clearly has a soapbox of elitism, and is near bordering on trolling?

You know what's interesting? Despite constant personal insults and straw man arguments being levied against me I've kept my cool for pretty much this entire thread. Sure I may have given a slightly sarcastic response here and there, but typically in response to a strawman argument or an insult.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought up the global decline in IQ levels though. I had been thinking about the reversal of the Flynn effect and the recent studies which have shown that people with IQ levels between 90-100 out reproduce everyone else. It all has very little to do with gaming but the Dumbing Down of entertainment and the Dumbing Down of man both vex me and lead me to long incessant rants.

And how are you bringing IQ into this? If you were intelligent, you'd know IQ tests are TERRIBLE quantifiers of a person's intellgence. Even dumb people can get perfect scores on IQ tests, it's just a test of whether your brain is functioning or not e.g. intellectual disability.

Actually you can be very intelligent and get a low score but you can't be unintelligent and get a high score, so what you said is simply untrue. No one is claiming that IQ tests are perfect, but they do provide a good measurement of person's intelligence and an even better measurement of a population's intelligence.

So what if game genres have exploded, and point-and-click isometric PC games aren't the biggest sellers?

You may have missed this considering that it came up after my OP, but we've discussed Non-Isometric games with a lot of depth such as Vampire Masquerade - Bloodlines.

So what if console games sell the most?

Back in the day there were some very deep story driven Console games, such as Suikoden 2, by the way. Ah well, this is turning into a wall of text.

 

[Zenode]

Two words:
Console Tards

First of all LOL

and if anyone has seen the movie idiocracy that basically sums up the "stupification" of humanity

 

[ben---neb]

I think the whole issue can be summed up with a simple equation:

Profit = Sales of the game - cost of the game.

As cost of the game increases (which is has over the past decade) then the sales of the game has to corresponding increase. Mass market then becomes the default. "Intelligent" games like Pyschonauts failed to do well commercially therefore developers are less likely to take a risk.

In addition the next gen graphics expected in the latest games forces costs up. However more and more we are seeing a trend towards stylised art, this is good as it brings the cost of the game down and increases it's lifespan. Therefore it may be that "intelligent" games will become more common. Also the success of games like Braid will encourage deveolpers to try something new ever now and again.

 

[Angerwing]

Two words:
Console Tards

I agree, like most everyone else. The majority of console owners just want to kill things in pretty environments and care little for the storyline or even the gameplay. I have a feeling that if you made a game that was exactly like Halo 3 just with different weapons and a different setting, it would be a smash hit. Fortunately for us, not all developers have fallen to this level. Bioware, Bethesda, and Valve are among the few that haven't.

How do you justify clumping an entire market together just because you think you're superior? Perhaps the console gamers you are speaking of don't have the money to buy a top-end gaming system. Maybe they lack the money to update their computer everytime a bigger and better game comes out? If you actually DO think that wealth=intelligence, then good day sir.


OP: One could argue that they are dumbing down modern literature. Compare Pride and Prejudice to Twilight for example (for that is what you are effectively doing with your examples). Does this mean that society as a whole is becoming dumber because we are getting more Twilights and less Pride and Prejudices (relatively)? No. Literacy rates have obviously improved greatly since 1813, and I don't see the logic in criticising the intelligence of the human race as a whole because more people are reading than before. The reason books were all Pride and Prejudices and not Twilights back in 1813 is because (predominantly) the literate were the well educated, so the books were written FOR THEM. Since most of the world is now literate, books are now written for the less educated. I think we should rejoice that literacy rates are so high, not complain that every book to be released isn't to your educated, elitist standard.

Do you understand my analogy?

 

[IamQ]

I wonder if this is going anywhere...

 

[Valentine82]

OP: One could argue that they are dumbing down modern literature.

Oh believe me I've noticed.

Anyway, I don't see my self rejoicing when art transitions from excellence to mediocrity. You're right, back in the 1995-2004 Video Gaming wasn't as mainstream, and when something becomes main stream it tend to get dumbed down for the masses.

 

[Pellucid]

Wait, how are any of those games you listed deep? Fallout is what I would call clever.

I don't see "lacks a good story" as being equal to "dumbed down." I see "simplistic and easy to master game mechanics" more that way. All of the games you listed that I've played had incredibly simple game mechanics and were very easy to powergame in to become an unstoppable killing machine. That doesn't make them bad games, but I think it's disingenuous to imply that they are somehow "more intelligent" than games with less story focus and more mechanical focus.

 

[Valentine82]

Wait, how are any of those games you listed deep? Fallout is what I would call clever.

Fallout wasn't deep in the same way as the others, but how was Planescape Torment or Arcanum not deep? Anyway, what was great about Fallout wasn't the main plot, it was the expertly written dialogue interactions and the dynamic player driven story. The game was full of intrigue, which is rare in Video Games past and present.

I don't see "lacks a good story" as being equal to "dumbed down."

I should have specified that I didn't simply count lacking a story as dumbing down, I also counted bad stories that are full of plot holes and poorly written idiotic dialogue interactions (IE Fallout 3).

I see "simplistic and easy to master game mechanics" more that way. All of the games you listed that I've played had incredibly simple game mechanics and were very easy to powergame in to become an unstoppable killing machine.

Really? Did you use cheats? That definately couldn't have been the case with Arcanum, and I have a hard time seeing you just steam rolling your way thought Fallout. Sure maybe once you've played fallout through a time or two you could just roll through, but admit it, the first time through you got barbed by a Rad Scorpion or killed by one of those centauris didn't you? Baldur's Gate 2 may have been that way up until you fought your first dragon, but did you really just steam roll all the bosses in that game, dragons and all?

That doesn't make them bad games, but I think it's disingenuous to imply that they are somehow "more intelligent" than games with less story focus and more mechanical focus.

Some games are like Chess, others are like Checkers.