The Dumbing Down of Video Games

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Valentine82

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More Fun To Compute, with Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines you bring up an example of a game with deep and interactive story driven elements, open ended gameplay, and full voice overs. That game has a novel's worth of text in voice acting and a very well written script. Kudos to you for reminding me of a game that isn't Isometric and text heavy that's got all the depth and literary value of the classics I mention in my OP.
 

Beltaine

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Valentine82 said:
More Fun To Compute, with Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines you bring up an example of a game with deep and interactive story driven elements, open ended gameplay, and full voice overs. That game has a novel's worth of text in voice acting and a very well written script. Kudos to you for reminding me of a game that isn't Isometric and text heavy that's got all the depth and literary value of the classics I mention in my OP.
Which is still a needle in a haystack of games.

You're still comparing niche gems to mainstream fodder.

Even though it took a community of volunteers to fix Bloodlines to make it remotely playable...
 

Dagodweezl

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I would like to go against several posts.

Assasins creed was NOT a deep game. It was way to repetative.

Also to Valentine IQ is a sham It was origanly just a quick tool to place the massive amounts of tranies joining up in WW1. Your score is acurate to 15 points in either direction. plus it can lean an aditional 15 based on test conditions and personal factors. Baisicly it can be thity points in either irection. A person with a supposed average score of 100 could actualy be anywhere from 70(borderline mental retardation) to 130(close to genius) So somone who has an average score is actualy anywhere from a moron to a genius.
 

Valentine82

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Remember when people used to play board games?

Did you play checkers? Then you obviously were too dumb for chess.

Did you play Battleship? Then you must have not had the IQ to play Risk.

Did you play Life? Too bad you weren't intelligent enough for Monopoly.

Now... where did that point I was making run off to?
I think I grasp your point. It's a select few who can sit and enjoy a game of Chess or Risk, though I personally consider Monopoly a kind of low brow "Just keep rolling the dice and leave it up to random fate" type game where no real skill is involved... The game has some mods that negate that complaint however.

Just like those of us who can actually grasp the complex rules of Chest are rarer than those of us who prefer the simple rules of Checkers, fewer still those of us who can enjoy the intelligence and intrigue involved in Risk are far fewer than those who consider Battle Ship exciting, the same holds true for videogames. Not every man is a thinking man, Vampires: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is a bit too deep and complicated for Frat Boy Larry who watches foot ball and plays the Wii.
 

Halfbreed13

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buy teh haloz said:
Halfbreed13 said:
Two words:
Console Tards
Two Words: Nintendo Wii
While the Nintendo wii has left hardcore gamers screwed, the xbox is also partially to blame what with its numerous blockbuster hits where its entire story is "OH TEH NOES ALIENZ!!111!!11"
PS3 also has the space Nazis of KZ2. Its consoles in general here.
 

Erana

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Valentine82 said:
Erana, need I explain to you how Fable's story driven elements are drastically dumbed down compared to Baldurs Gate II's story driven elements?
Don't talk to me like I'm stupid.
You're taking a specific example and applying it to the whole. There's a logical fallacy for that, too.
I'm asking of you to define your terms. If you can't do that, you can't make a valid argument.
 

Sixties Spidey

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Halfbreed13 said:
buy teh haloz said:
Halfbreed13 said:
Two words:
Console Tards
Two Words: Nintendo Wii
While the Nintendo wii has left hardcore gamers screwed, the xbox is also partially to blame what with its numerous blockbuster hits where its entire story is "OH TEH NOES ALIENZ!!111!!11"
PS3 also has the space Nazis of KZ2. Its consoles in general here.
It's just unoriginality here. Remember the last two console generations? There were much more original IP's during those generations. It isn't consoles in general. I guess cause the industry itself is turning into a monopoly (ACTIVISION....).
 

Valentine82

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Dagod, on IQ tests, they're not perfect but they work pretty well. Yes, a person of higher than average intelligence can be bad at taking test or simply have a bad test day and end up scoring much lower than would indicate his actual level of intelligence, but you can't be unintelligent and score a 130 or above.

IQ tests can leave intelligent people with deceptively low scores, but not unintelligent people with deceptively high scores. Given the global reversal of the Flynn effect with few notable exception, the human reproductive trends, and the heritability of intelligence, there is reasonable cause for concern.

Again the movie "Idiocracy" or the book "The Marching Morons" are not likely to become a reality because there's a point where intelligence bottoms out and any lower is a hindrance to survival and reproductive success, but there's still a good chance natural selection will eventually bottom us out since it only truly favors reproductive success and the reproductive viability of offspring.
 

Valentine82

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Erana I think you misunderstood, the purpose of the specific example I gave you wasn't to talk down to you as if you were stupid it was to make a point regarding what I'm talking about. The question was socratic in nature.

Another question like this, to address what you're saying. Do you want me to go down a list of every game that has been released over the past five years and explain step by step what I'm talking about?

The Fable to Baldur's Gate 2 comparison is my way of narrowing down the field and picking mainstream hits from two different time periods, both considered RPG games, to show how dumbed down RPG games have become.
 

Shamanic Enzan

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Valentine82 said:
Erana I think you misunderstood, the purpose of the specific example wasn't to talk down to you as if you were stupid it was to make a point regarding what I'm talking about. Do you want me to go down a list of every game that has been released over the past five years and explain step by step what I'm talking about?
Actually I'd like to see that, take popular titles from a genre in what you consider "Old times" and compare them to popular titles from the last year or so.
 

Valentine82

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I already provided a list of examples of older games that have elements we just don't see anymore. Go back and read the first paragraph of my OP. I'd also like to add Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines to that list, since it's one for the people who can't stand isometric gameplay.
 

More Fun To Compute

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Idiocracy is just a dumbed down modern version of Harrison Bergeron [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-175006468841636088] anyway.
 

Erana

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Valentine82 said:
Erana I think you misunderstood, the purpose of the specific example I gave you wasn't to talk down to you as if you were stupid it was to make a point regarding what I'm talking about. The question was socratic in nature, a mere device by which to convey my meaning.

Another question like this, to address what you're saying. Do you want me to go down a list of every game that has been released over the past five years and explain step by step what I'm talking about?

The Fable to Baldur's Gate 2 comparison is my way of narrowing down the field and picking mainstream hits from two different time periods, both considered RPG games, to show how dumbed down RPG games have gotten.
With rationalizations like that, I could just say, "Duke Nukem 3D, Half-Life 2, End thread."
But with the topic of this thread, I've got to say: "that's capitalism." Video games are, as a collective industry, following what the people are interested in enough to purchase them. I doubt that a single generation could make that much of a difference in natural intelligence...
 

Valentine82

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Actually it drew it's inspiration from the book "The Marching Morons" and more modern findings affirming the reversal of the Flynn Effect, which was predicted in the 1930's by hereditary biologist. Actually the predicted reversal of the Flynn Effect played a major role in the Eugenics movement, which fell flat on it's face due to the inherent inhumanity and inequity of the methods being used, and the often illogical and racist things that were being selected against.

Eugenics, of course, is neither good nor evil, and should not be colored as an inhumane and inequitable idea just because those who attempted it in the past did so in an inhumane and inequitable way.
 

Zersy

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Valentine82 said:
Many of you are too young (as in, you've just hit puberty) to recall games like Arcanum of Steamworks and Magic, Fallout and Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 2 Shadows of Amn, and Planescape Torment. Despite their often times well written and deeply interactive stories, the gamer and thus the market has gone in a dumber and more intellectually lazy direction.

Enter the era of dumbed down gaming. Most gamers will be perfectly content with the contrived and mediocre, and most giants of the industry have noticed this. Who needs a meaningful and interactive storyline when you have a pet dog and a big sword? Who needs a solid plot and a decent ending when you have explosions and super mutants? Why have a deep and innovative game when you can have a dumbed down collection of colorful Mini-Games? Kudos to anyone who knows the games I'm speaking of.

Maybe this follows a trend in evolution. Statistically people with an IQ level between 90-100 are more likely to have children and are likely to have more children that people with an IQ level of 110 or above. Given the heritability of intelligence, games and movies aren't just dumbing down, all of society is dumbing down. Society has become more enlightened, but it hasn't become more intelligent. We don't really have to worry about Idiocracy becoming a reality because 90 seems to be where IQ levels bottom out before becoming a hindrance on social function, but we face the real possibility of humanity becoming every bit as dumbed down as our entertainment media has become.
What is happening to soceity right now is "Newtons Law"

for every actions there is a equal and oppissite reaction

We were at the top of economic times , now we are at the worst
we were at the worst in movie making, now we are at the top
we were at the top of creativyt of games , now we are leaning towards "playing it safe"

so just wait it out the universe will naturally correct and follow the laws