The Elder Scrolls modders amaze me.

[80Maxwell08]

EDIT: Ok I do NOT hate any of the Elder Scrolls series. I'm actually glad they manage to succeed so much since Bethesda seems to be one of the few people who doesn't try to dick over their fanbase and from the sheer amount of work that goes into each game. I was just asking about the modding community and their work ethic to a job they don't get paid for. Ok edit over.

Ok quick note I'm only talking about everything after daggerfall since I don't know anything about that or arena. From what I understand about the elder scrolls series ) regardless of the overwhelming high review scores they all have major flaws (I've heard all of these from people who both like and dislike the series, also I'm not one of them since I haven't played enough of any of these to say anything one way or another this is just what I've heard).

They all have an ungodly amount of bugs (though I hear Skyrim is better in this regard) to the point where the Unoffical Oblivion Patch mod is still being updated to this day, the writing is bad (apparently though I can't testify to that since I just started Oblivion and I haven't played more than half an hour of Morrowind also I haven't gotten Skyrim) and the combat is lackluster (Once again I've heard Skyrim is better than this but I've also heard its just more of the same).

What amazes me is how dedicated the fanbase is to making them into the greatest games ever. That the modder (or modders I don't know) who made the Unoffical Oblivion Patch mod still wants to keep working on it shows serious dedication. Then we have Morrowind which is still having new mods made today so it can keep up with modern games. Even Skyrim has had modders going crazy without the Creation Kit being released. So far people have completely rebalanced the combat in Oblivion (sereral people several times actually) and one made a completely new combat system for it. Then we get to the people who made their own games in it (like Nehrim) but people have been doing that one for a long time so while still impressive isn't exactly new (though I am surprised of the amount of people who are doing all the same mods to Nehrim [modding a mod. just throwing it out there]).

I guess my question for discussion value would be this. Why? What drives these people? Where does this dedication come from?

 

[Radeonx]

Because the open worldness of their games are done really well.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Passion, I guess. There is a big difference between modders and developers - finance. Modders don't get paid for their work, so there is no incentive to create something that will appeal to a large audience. They are completely free to work on it however they like and for how long they like.

A good example I can give, is the mod: Europa Barbarorum for Rome: Total War. It is almost an encyclopaedia of reliable info on that historical period, yet huge descriptive texts would appeal to a small audience and turn the majority away. Therefore they simplified the game so that more people would be interested in it and they make a profit.

 

[irishda]

As games go, they're pretty shitty by the standards of their time. But, they offer RPGers a real chance at playing a fantasy life that's not called the Sims or WoW. They're expansive games, despite all their flaws, so its like D&D for the modern era. There's a subgroup of gamers that enjoys freedom to do whatever they want in their games. The Escapist community happens to hold a large share of this subset, hence all the love for games like Skyrim and Minecraft. Although it's weird that there's no love for Little Big Planet then on this site.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Because the open worldness of their games are done really well.

This. Combined with the rich lore makes people get tunnel vision.

Bethesda just has some formula going people love, making people ignore the flaws.

 

[Tanis]

Holy crap I can't read that.

Try using the 'ENTER' key, it breaks things up and makes it easier.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Holy crap I can't read that.

Try using the 'ENTER' key, it breaks things up and makes it easier.

Done. Is that better?

 

[Versuvius]

Everything has it's flaws. Yes TES in general has it's bad bits but the good bits overwhelm them. Name me a game that is utterly perfect.

 

[Hal10k]

Have you ever played a game, and said to yourself, "This game would be perfect, if only one thing were changed"? Modders are the people who think that, then immediately try to figure out how they can do it. For the Elder Scrolls, it really got off the ground with Morrowind. TES had a sort-of existing fanbase of people who really enjoyed the games, but had their own "one thing" to change. These people discussed their changes online, and swapped files to see what the the changes would do. Bethesda noticed this, and shipped the development tools with Morrowind when it was released in order to make extensive changes to the game easier to develop. Because of this, the popularity of mods increased significantly, to the degree seen today where the community is so vast that some see it as the true draw of the games.

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

holy wall of text batman

i really don't know what to say i never played a elder scolls game in my life or any game that Bethesda has made. i got oblivion today since is was 75% off in steam. even if i don't like it the price was cheap so it is at least worth a shot
so what is the best mods for this game anyway?

 

[Fleetfiend]

Kind of hard to read from the errors and run-ons, but anyways.

You know why people like TES? It's huge, well-imagined, and FUN. More often than not the bugs are entertaining, and the mythos is pretty deep. There is SO MUCH to do in the games that most players, at one point or another, are overwhelmed by the complexity.

Perfect? Absolutely not. Great? Yes.

 

[Versuvius]

Though, i am slightly offended when people go "I have played a bit of this and none of that and havent got this but WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE IT?". What an utterly terribad stance to have. Want good mods? Google. "What are the best mods for x" then go to TES nexus/Skyrim nexus. Asking us is silly because theres bloody loads.

 

[kebab4you]

Everything has it's flaws. Yes TES in general has it's bad bits but the good bits overwhelm them. Name me a game that is utterly perfect.

CoD:MW3 ... bhahaha sorry I couldn't resist ^^

OT: As mention already, passion for their favourite game to become even better.

 

[Leoofmoon]

So you hate a game because every one else likes it?

 

[lovest harding]

Millions of people played these games and most of them enjoyed their time enough to not go online and complain, but didn't enjoy them enough to go online and tout their godliness. It's all about personal opinion and experience. I have yet to experience earth shattering bugs (unless you count a dozen freezes on Oblivion over a thousand hours and 2 freezes in Skyrim over 200 hours to be earth shattering, I didn't even experience one freeze of Morrowind).

And with all those mods, that's once again personal preference. I never once modded gameplay in Morrowind and Oblivion (I own both on PC). I think these games play fairly well (albeit Skyrim has tinted that for me as I really like the way it plays).
I've also played most of Oblivion on 360 and didn't feel there are an unnecessary amount of bugs in the game (and if you have the chance to look at the Oblivion mod patch's documentation a lot of the fixes are quite minor (things like making sure rocks aren't floating or tweaking/fixing item lists, which is nice but not necessary, not to belittle the patch as it's wonderful, but it's not a sign of how horribly bugged the original game is when the 95% of its fixes are minor).

In any case, I enjoy the games I have played (and I can only speak to as why I've loved Bethesda since Morrowind). I have yet to be crippled by these overwhelming bugs (I don't doubt that they happen, I just think a few hundred, or even thousand, people complain about a bug online and immediately the absurd assumption that every person who's ever played the game has experienced a buggy piece of shit that they unduly love out of some rampant fanboyism is ridiculous).

As I said, I can only speak of my experience and why I love these games and the company. I'm not going to run through every complaint you've said that someone has told you about, but feel free to assume that I disagree with the point anyway (because I 9 times out of 10 I will). xD

EDIT: I deleted the first part. I felt like a douche. xD

 

[80Maxwell08]

Have you ever played a game, and said to yourself, "This game would be perfect, if only one thing were changed"? Modders are the people who think that, then immediately try to figure out how they can do it. For the Elder Scrolls, it really got off the ground with Morrowind. It had an existing fanbase of people who really enjoyed the games, but had their own "one thing" to change. These people discussed their changes online, and swapped files to see what the the changes would do. Bethesda noticed this, and shipped the development tools with Morrowind when it was released in order to make extensive changes to the game easier to develop. Because of this, the popularity of mods increased significantly, to the degree seen today where the community is so vast that some see it as the true draw of the games.

Well then that basically answers it. Bethesda saw people who wanted to change it themselves, embraced them and game them the tools for the job. Thanks for the post.

holy wall of text batman

i really don't know what to say i never played a elder scolls game in my life or any game that Bethesda has made. i got oblivion today since is was 75% off in steam. even if i don't like it the price was cheap so it is at least worth a shot
so what is the best mods for this game anyway?

Well I fixed the post so there. Also I asked that in another post I made. Granted its only gotten a few posts but its still there and there are some good suggestions.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.331827-Which-Oblivion-mods-to-get-along-with-the-ones-I-have-listed

 

[AstylahAthrys]

Because they're fun? Because the bugs have never been major for me? Because the lore of the games is absolutely incredible? That's good enough for me.

Have I just been really lucky when it comes to bugs with Elder Scrolls? I have experienced a major bug once, which was fixed by reloading my last save, and even the minor ones are pretty sparse for me. Yes, there are bugs, but I feel like it's blown out of proportion sometimes. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Though, i am slightly offended when people go "I have played a bit of this and none of that and havent got this but WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE IT?". What an utterly terribad stance to have. Want good mods? Google. "What are the best mods for x" then go to TES nexus/Skyrim nexus. Asking us is silly because theres bloody loads.

I'm not asking why people like the game I'm asking why people are so dedicated to fixing them though I got my answer from someone else. I'm not insulting it I was curious what drives those people to do so much work. Also the only reason I stopped playing Oblivion today was because my character got over-encumbered and I couldn't figure out how to drop anything after hitting every single key on my keyboard.

I had heard from these one guys on the interwebs that you were actually an alien made of play doh and meth. I'm right because I've heard these things, therefore we should discuss if you have the same rights as real people.

Millions of people played these games and most of them enjoyed their time enough to not go online and complain, but didn't enjoy them enough to go online and tout their godliness. It's all about personal opinion and experience. I have yet to experience earth shattering bugs (unless you count a dozen freezes on Oblivion over a thousand hours and 2 freezes in Skyrim over 200 hours to be earth shattering, I didn't even experience one freeze of Morrowind).

And with all those mods, that's once again personal preference. I never once modded gameplay in Morrowind and Oblivion (I own both on PC). I think these games play fairly well (albeit Skyrim has tinted that for me as I really like the way it plays).
I've also played most of Oblivion on 360 and didn't feel there are an unnecessary amount of bugs in the game (and if you have the chance to look at the Oblivion mod patch's documentation a lot of the fixes are quite minor (things like making sure rocks aren't floating or tweaking/fixing item lists, which is nice but not necessary, not to belittle the patch as it's wonderful, but it's not a sign of how horribly bugged the original game is when the 95% of its fixes are minor).

In any case, I enjoy the games I have played (and I can only speak to as why I've loved Bethesda since Morrowind). I have yet to be crippled by these overwhelming bugs (I don't doubt that they happen, I just think a few hundred people complain about a bug online and immediately the absurd assumption that every person who's ever played the game has experienced a buggy piece of shit that they unduly love out of some rampant fanboyism is ridiculous).

As I said, I can only speak of my experience and why I love these games and the company. I'm not going to run through every complaint you've said that someone has told you about, but feel free to assume that I disagree with the point anyway (because I 9 times out of 10 I will). xD

First off I have absolutely no idea what your first paragraph means whatvoever. The only Bethesda game I could honestly talk about with perspective on it is Fallout 3, the GOTY edition, which I returned after 4 hours since it crashed on me twice and once made me lose a lot of progress I didn't feel like redoing.

Though I know a lot of people who have had tons of bugs and crashes and people who have virtually no bugs or crashes. Also I only listed 3 complaints I've heard over and over though I've never heard a single person contest any of them save the bug thing.

So you hate a game because every one else likes it?

When did I even say I hated the game? I have nothing against the game series I was asking about the insanely dedicated modding community.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Because I enjoy open world RPG's and the elder scrolls are about as big as they get, its all down to preference, I dont understand how people can absolutely love sports and racing games but im not denying they arent good games

 

[irishda]

Everything has it's flaws. Yes TES in general has it's bad bits but the good bits overwhelm them. Name me a game that is utterly perfect.

God of War 1-3, Modern Warfare, Arkham Asylum, Diablo 2, Dawn of War, Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Two Thrones (combat in SoT was lame), Little Big Planet 2, Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, KOTOR, and Mario Kart.

That's my list, all of which felt like they had done A+ work in terms of mechanics, pacing, story, changed something about their genres, and (this is an important qualifier) had no bugs (or at least very, very few: I'm looking at you Mario Kart exploit in Wario's track).