The Elder Scrolls VI: Gameplay Changes

[TheNamlessGuy]

DELETED

 

[halfeclipse]

*snip*

- The Return of Classes, Major/Minor Skills

Spoiler

Classes should return, like they were in Oblivion with some modifications. You still have the "Thief, Mage, Warrior" archetypes, but within them you can choose things like Paladin (Restoration Warrior), Witchblade (Magical Assassin), Battleamage etc. You could still of course make your own class. Major skills level the fastest, then minor skills, and then skills that are neither major nor minor level the slowest. Classes help a lot in roleplay, and Major/Minor skills help define how a class plays. The ability to make your own class lets you build whatever you want, so you're aren't limited, just defined.

Why? If I'm running around throwing fireballs and lighting I'm clearly a mage, if I've got a sword and plate Armour at the same time, battle mage. Bow and arrow and light armor instead? Archer. It could do with laying out classes better then in Skyrim, but a pop up menu is not the way to do it.

What if you start out as, let's say a farmer or adventurer who has no bonus attributes what so ever and you kind of suck in general. You could of course defeat a rat and perhaps a wolf and you would have big problems fighting a bandit. Like one would be challenging and 2 would be fucking hard.

and to actually become something, like a warrior or an archer or a mage you would have to find a tutor in the field you want to specialize in and pay him to learn you things. Like Risen does. I think that would be a nice way of implementing classes in any game.

Depending on exactly what you mean, it either does that already (There are skill trainers all over the place) would need to be made far to easy (Every city has most/all the trainers. Yawn.) or entirely rework the way skills are done and kill one of the defining characteristics of the series.


Tbh the elder scrolls only has "classes" because collective RPGdom requires them. You can pick any 4 skills (73000 possible skill combos in Skyrim.) and probably be fine and any 6 (over 13 million) basically guarantees it.

 

[runic knight]

well, I like the general ideas. Not so much the classes things, rather liked the fee form way we have in skyrim over the weird juggling rigidness of oblivion or morrowind.

I'd try to add more personality and uniqueness to the npc. Aside from more and varied voice actors, I would also work on the combat system. For one, introduce stances. Each weapon can have a variety of stances you can do with it, all give small but interesting perks and downsides. A defensive stance gives more resistance to stagger but makes you slower when moving with weapon drawn. A speedy one makes you swing faster but causes less damage to the enemy. Some stances work better for some enemies, that sort of thing. Have the be things you can be taught by trainers. You could also apply this to spells. And have stances reflected in how the ncp stand or sit and other mannerisms instead of the same stiffness they all have. Have it so certain styles and stances are tied in with certain enemies and certain voices (wouldn't want a defensive brute warrior sounding like a dainty magic caster sort of thing), and then suddenly the group of bandits you fight now seem more unique and have different threats even if wielding the same weapons. And they seem to come off with personalities as well, instead of the same suicide charge most have at the moment.

I'd also add in a way to use a catalyst for spells. Something to cast spells through a wand or staff or some creature's skull to change their effects (maybe this is how to go from projectile to wall to beam to whatever) and add a little variety and specialization.

Maybe have skills increase in potency when they level (instead of perks required to make them do just that), and have trainers for the perks that change gameplay. For example, you level 1h, you get stronger with it, and after 25, you can find a trainer who teaches you how to do a stronger form of a charged strike. Higher the level of the perk, the harder to find or harder prerequisites you need to meet.

Bring back a little more option on armor. Not the left/right paldron stuff from morrowind, but helm,shoulder,chest,gloves,pants,boot,necklace,2 rings plus what is equipped in hands.

Weapons should degrade and be repairable at forges where you would make gear. Also, enemies should have more then just clean items. Some should be partially refined or badly damaged and what not. Also, having signs of wear on the weapon would be good, even if it is only a simple 100%/66%/33% designation by a secondary texture applied over the first to make it look more worn.

Bring back levitate, but make it like telekinesis where it drains mp massively to the point it's uses are limited. Maybe have it hard to get/needs specific teacher to teach you it/ reward for becoming arch-mage. Also, bring back feather-fall too. And spell creation. Heh, explosion plus featherfall effect with low damage spell = easy floating arrow target.

Make the mage guild quest require you to be a good mage. Make it longer, make it more difficult and make it require the use of the magic system beyond some gimmicks. Maybe a centerpiece boss fights that requires you switch between spell types to cause damage or something. Hell, even knowledge of how to use certain spells in certain situations during combat and puzzles rather then what I did, which was kill them all with my sword save the hot/cold puzzle. Just not the fetch-quest crap of skyrim, please.
maybe more later...

 

[BeeGeenie]

There are still lot's of ways around that, like giving singular effects certain particle effects that would be added to the original animation. I also imagine that it would be absolutely do-able to change the color of something. Combine the 2 and you have tons of possibilities to highlight the effects of a spell.

Again, people would complain.
A lot.

Not as much as I'd complain that they completely left out the feature
I don't care if it's a simple palette swap, as long as I get to choose from a list of effects and name it. In Oblivion I got to have my arch-mage, Voldemort, shooting Avada Kedavra bolts. And it was awesome. I didn't care that it was just a generic "do X physical damage for Y seconds" spell with a different name. It was mine.

Also, I miss levitation from Morrowind. I understand that they removed it so it wouldn't throw off their precious set pieces, and I can respect that... but it was still awesome.

 

[putowtin]

Different save slots for different characters. That's all I've ever wanted out of a Bethesda game.

This! A million times this!

I get so confused scrolling through my 5 characters saves trying to find the one I want (especially now we have Dawnguard)

 

[Tiger King]

a bit of armour customisation would be cool.
The way things are you collect the materials push a button and the armour always comes out the same.

It would be nice to customise the colour and style. I was also thinking you could add items you find like gems or trophys won in battle.
say you choose to be a warrior and you collect scalps or heads from enemies and you display them from armour spikes or chains.
maybe animal pelts could be used too.

 

[Solracziad]

Different save slots for different characters. That's all I've ever wanted out of a Bethesda game.

This. All of this. So much! I am eternally grateful for Bioware doing this both DA and ME.

 

[F'Angus]

I do wish they would put some stuff like Pauldrons and Greaves back in. Plus a couple of weapons that they took out, mainly short-swords and spears.

Otherwise I really enjoy Skyrim's system, I don't really want to see it become like Fallout's.

 

[evilneko]

Different save slots for different characters. That's all I've ever wanted out of a Bethesda game.

This. All of this. So much! I am eternally grateful for Bioware doing this both DA and ME.

But... Skyrim puts the name of the character into the save filename, so it's not like you can't run multiple chars at once...

 

[Flizzick]

Make quest-lines longer, and make the skills incorporated with factions actually matter.

It seemed like you could use any play style with every quest-line and not be penalized for it.

Case in point:
1. I was the Harbinger of the Companions and Arch-Mage of the College in Winterhold after what felt like 3 quests each, all of which I hung back and stealth killed enemies with my bow.

2. As a thief character, I expected to have a real blast with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood (like I did in Oblivion), but was kind of disappointed at the lack of stealth or cunning needed for both of those quest-lines.

 

[evilneko]

- The Return of Classes, Major/Minor Skills

Meh. Classes are an unnecessary and obsolete concept. Plus, you've got the three Guardian Stones for your archetypes, and the Lover's stone for your jack-of-all-trades.

- Racial Skill Bonuses
Rather than starting with higher skill in something, your Racial Skill bonus should mean you're just naturally more talented at learning that skill - essentially it gives you 2/3 extra minor skills - or if they skills are minor skills for your class, ups them to the level of major skills.

I suppose I could get behind this.

- Return of Attributes/Abilities

I see primary attributes as superfluous. Most of the benefits you get from them are already tied to other stats. Take Strength for instance. All of its benefits are now tied to other stats: damage is tied to the skill used to inflict it, carrying capacity to stamina, blocking effectiveness to block, etc. Much like classes, they just aren't needed anymore.

- Skills System Revamp
The way skills and perks are handled in Skyrim is interesting, but I think they could be done better. First thing is "skill scaling" - essentially, as a skill in a certain area levels up, your base abilities in that skills are also go up. Instead of taking "Armsman" to upgrade the damage your one-handed weapons do, just leveling up One-Handed will make your one-handed weapons more powerful. The same with Magic, Archery and Armor, etc.

This is already the case, except with Destruction magic unfortunately. Perks are bonuses in addition to that granted by having higher skill.

"Perks" instead should be treated like "talents" - basically, things that your constant use of the skill and practice have taught you. Even odd numbered level you're given a Perk point to spend, and you can choose one perk you meet the skill requirement for, like Skyrim or Fallout. However instead of the perks like Armsman or the Novice>Master perks, perks are designed to actually affect gameplay.

I think it's hard to say they don't affect gameplay.

An example of the new perks would be something like these Restoration options:

Healer - Spells with healing effects cost 25% to cast
Regeneration - Healing effects of spells are 25% more effective
Banisher - Spells that affect the Undead are 25% more effective
Bane of Death - Healing effects damage the Undead
Golden Hands - Can Dual-Cast Restoration Spells for 2x effectiveness

etc.

Well, two of those already are perks in Skyrim... also, dual casting should be greater than 2x. (vanilla dual cast is 2.2x)

- Loot/Smithing Overhaul
Essentially, these does what Morrowind did - the high level equipment (Glass, Elven, Dwarven, Deadric, Ebony etc.) is no longer Smithable or buyable (with rare exceptions) - initially. Instead the high level equipment can only be found by dungeon diving, searching, and stealing it from the people who are wealthy enough to own it. Some things, like Dwarven, Elven or Orcish might appear in shops occasionally, but you have no chance of ever seeing Ebony, Glass, Dragon Bone or Deadric in a shop or randomly on some bandit. You'll have to explore and find the best equipment.

The one exception is if your Smithing skill is high enough, you can find and read/be taught how to make these pieces of equipment once you locate the right person/find the right book. It make sense that you wouldn't gain magical knowledge on how to make the best equipment by Smithing 1000s of daggers and jewelery, but an experienced Smith could be taught how to make the best equipment for themselves.

Well I guess that would make your high level armor set even more special, but it's kind of a pain already to gather up a full set of glass. :/

- Armor/Clothing
Equip-able items need to be expanded - something like Head, Left/Right Shoulder, Chest, Legs, Feet, Cloak, 2x Rings, Necklace, Shields.

More slots is always better. Also, adding a couple more general "Body AddOn" slots (Fallout for example has 3, pretty sure Skyrim does too) would be really, really nice. Imagine Tailor Maid with 5 nonspecific slots... :O

- "Semi" Scaling

Pretty sure it's already the case that some stuff isn't scaled. Most is though, yeah. So basically you want more unleveled stuff. Fair enough. I say include it as a difficulty setting.

- Magic and Spells
Spells, as noted before, should scale with your skill level. ...(snip)...
Custom spells should come back as well, as well as some new elements - Earth spells?

Damn right they should scale. I shouldn't need a mod to fix this blatant oversight! I don't care that 'Flames' is virtually free at mid-high level, it's still crap because of its damage output.

Custom Spells, with the ability to delete obsolete ones, would be very welcome. My spellbook in Oblivion was so damn cluttered...

- Reputation/Factions Relationships
Its quite simple - becoming friendly with one faction makes another dislike you, and vice versa. This can and should escalate to exclusion from their cities/towns, vendors, quests and even result in being attacked on sight. IE: Becoming too friendly with the Dark Brotherhood makes the Companions no longer like you because they believe you to have no honor and refuse to deal with you.

Also, having a certain reputation should affect how NPC interact with you - for example, the Master of the Dark Brotherhood should inspire terror in mere bandits and cause them to flee rather than fight.

Now, this gets kind of thorny: how exactly do the Companions (to use your example) know about your involvement with the Dark Brotherhood? I'm pretty sure the Brotherhood doesn't publish a phonebook, after all, and if that Whiterun guard walking along the road had known about that erm, strange guy... I don't think he would've let him hang around there.

- Hardcore Mode

Eh, long as it's optional. Also, wtf is with leveling up only when sleeping anyway? I always thought that was just plain stupid.

 

[Darkmantle]

So basically... just do what Morrowind did, except with the new engine!

This just sums up my feeling perfectly. Just make Morrowind with Skyrims graphics, and a better combat system. I would be all over that.

I'm not sure what is encompassed by engine so I'll just ask, does the new engine include the actual combat mechanics? because I hated the combat mechanics in morrowind. I hate that my sword connecting is not necessarily a hit, I hated not being able to manually control my shield.

And I do not know how people could find that enjoyable. Unless they enjoyed the game despite those flaws.

It really was a 'despite those flaws' type situation.

I'm sure if Fappy [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Fappy] was here he'd agree, but there was a fantastic world to explore full of interesting characters, you just had to get past the terrible combat system. Unfortunately, combat is a big part of the game, so there is a lot to get past.

I tended to play a Mage, so it didn't bother me as much.

Out of interest, which TES game did you play first?

In order from first to last

Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Skyrim. Only one I didn't enjoy was morrowind, I've even tried going back to it a few times, and still no dice.

 

[Solracziad]

Different save slots for different characters. That's all I've ever wanted out of a Bethesda game.

This. All of this. So much! I am eternally grateful for Bioware doing this both DA and ME.

But... Skyrim puts the name of the character into the save filename, so it's not like you can't run multiple chars at once...

Your right. It's not critical, it would just make it easier to organize save files. I like to
keep multiple save files for each character. This tends to get pretty confusing.
EDIT: for qoute!

 

[WaysideMaze]

In order from first to last

Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Skyrim. Only one I didn't enjoy was morrowind, I've even tried going back to it a few times, and still no dice.

I can't speak for daggerfall and the way it plays, since I've never played it, but I think going from Oblivion/Skyrim to Morrowind is much harder simply because of the terrible combat system.

I played metal gear solid 2 before I played metal gear solid, and really hated MGS because the controls felt shit and clunky in comparison.

Maybe there's a mod for the Morrowind combat that improves it? I have no idea, it's been years since I've played it, and it was in my early stages of PC gaming before I even tried modding. I pester because I genuinely believe Morrowind has the superior (if not graphically uglier) world to explore.

 

[Lyri]

I'm not sure what is encompassed by engine so I'll just ask, does the new engine include the actual combat mechanics? because I hated the combat mechanics in morrowind. I hate that my sword connecting is not necessarily a hit, I hated not being able to manually control my shield.

And I do not know how people could find that enjoyable. Unless they enjoyed the game despite those flaws.

I'm going to step in here and answer this question.

My entire problem with Skyrim is that it's too fast, it's a quick romp in the Elder Scrolls verse and the finished product feels like premature ejeculation.
Compared with the others we've played with Skyrim is just over and done with far too quickly, there is some enjoyment to be had there but it's not as nearly complete.

You're probably wondering what this has to do with everything right? Well normally so would I but here we go.
Combat is a huge part of that game, you pick up your chosen weapon and you swing it for all you're worth and deal damage to your foes.
Once you see that magical sign in the centre of your screen One Handed 28 turn to One Handed 29 you know you're getting "better".
The rub is though you've always been as good, every swing has been a guaranteed hit and it is just the same with every other kind of weapon, this game is designed to go by quickly.
Skyrim wants to be accessible and easy, it's the prostitute of the Elder Scrolls series, the dark mistress whom you handed your money and now she's giving you services rendered.
Pick up a sword - level it up.
Pick up a hammer - level it up.
Pick up a mace? level it up.

Morrowinds combat was quietly elegant and it slowed the entire game down, it made your character a thing of hard work.
You wanted an awesome do everything character? You had to work for it, there was no other choice. You couldn't be a master of long blades and blunt weapons without training both up in earnest, you had to put the work in.
Morrowind wanted to make you take your time and develop your character in a forge, sure that mechanic may of had it's annoying parts but you have to see it for what it is and not what you thought it was.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

I had a couple of ideas for changes myself, revolving around how spells are dealt with in the game. I think it would be cool if, instead of reading a spell book and then being able to shoot its spell from your hand whenever you want, you should wield the book itself as a weapon. Equip the book in one of your hands and when you open it, its spell flies out from its pages, performing its intended effect.

I would also like to see a spell creation system, similar to enchanting, where you write your own spell books. Combining a ruined book and a filled soul gem, you can custom make your own spells, choosing whether they are projectile, over time, charge up, aoe projectile etc and their damage according to what soul gem you used, among other things. You should also be able to make hybrid spells, such as an over time spell which deals fire damage to enemies while healing you, or a projectile spell that deals half frost damage, half shock damage and soul traps the target. What I didn't like about spells in Skyrim was that you would be restricted to a certain kind of spell being useful in each tier of destruction, for the first tier you get the damage over time flames, sparks spells etc but once you get to higher up tiers, they become obsolete. Why can't I use a higher tier damage over time destruction spell? I know the master lightning spell is one but it takes a while to charge up and they are at completely opposite ends of the destruction skill.

 

[Darkmantle]

I'm not sure what is encompassed by engine so I'll just ask, does the new engine include the actual combat mechanics? because I hated the combat mechanics in morrowind. I hate that my sword connecting is not necessarily a hit, I hated not being able to manually control my shield.

And I do not know how people could find that enjoyable. Unless they enjoyed the game despite those flaws.

I'm going to step in here and answer this question.

My entire problem with Skyrim is that it's too fast, it's a quick romp in the Elder Scrolls verse and the finished product feels like premature ejeculation.
Compared with the others we've played with Skyrim is just over and done with far too quickly, there is some enjoyment to be had there but it's not as nearly complete.

You're probably wondering what this has to do with everything right? Well normally so would I but here we go.
Combat is a huge part of that game, you pick up your chosen weapon and you swing it for all you're worth and deal damage to your foes.
Once you see that magical sign in the centre of your screen One Handed 28 turn to One Handed 29 you know you're getting "better".
The rub is though you've always been as good, every swing has been a guaranteed hit and it is just the same with every other kind of weapon, this game is designed to go by quickly.
Skyrim wants to be accessible and easy, it's the prostitute of the Elder Scrolls series, the dark mistress whom you handed your money and now she's giving you services rendered.
Pick up a sword - level it up.
Pick up a hammer - level it up.
Pick up a mace? level it up.

Morrowinds combat was quietly elegant and it slowed the entire game down, it made your character a thing of hard work.
You wanted an awesome do everything character? You had to work for it, there was no other choice. You couldn't be a master of long blades and blunt weapons without training both up in earnest, you had to put the work in.
Morrowind wanted to make you take your time and develop your character in a forge, sure that mechanic may of had it's annoying parts but you have to see it for what it is and not what you thought it was.

the pace of the game had little to do with the combat system. Skyrim felt so short because it totally lacked an appropriate amount of quests. I dislike becoming archmage in what, 3 quests? 5 maybe? Or how fast I became the leader of the thieves guild, how fast my stormcloaks conquered skyrim etc etc.

the combat system being pointlessly obtuse and poorly explained is not a positive feature, it only detracts from the game, but people keep telling me how good it is like they are stockholm syndrome sufferers. Make it clear that when I'm missing or when I'm hitting. Make it clear how your system works. Or just come up with better ways to do skill scaling. Make untrained weapons swing more wildly, deal less damage, not stagger opponents. There are dozens of ways to use real skill scaling without reverting to a broken system.

 

[Darkmantle]

In order from first to last

Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Skyrim. Only one I didn't enjoy was morrowind, I've even tried going back to it a few times, and still no dice.

I can't speak for daggerfall and the way it plays, since I've never played it, but I think going from Oblivion/Skyrim to Morrowind is much harder simply because of the terrible combat system.

I played metal gear solid 2 before I played metal gear solid, and really hated MGS because the controls felt shit and clunky in comparison.

Maybe there's a mod for the Morrowind combat that improves it? I have no idea, it's been years since I've played it, and it was in my early stages of PC gaming before I even tried modding. I pester because I genuinely believe Morrowind has the superior (if not graphically uglier) world to explore.

I'm sure the world is great, and I was interested in exploring it, but I couldn't get anywhere or get anything done. So I got frustrated, and rightfully so. That's a game where you need not only the manual, but a strategy guide to make it through your first time. It's poor game design, I would like a new version of morrowind with updated graphics and a better system overall.