The Ending Was Not ME3's Only Problem

[Tuesday Night Fever]

I wondered aloud, several times, while I was playing ME3 "Hey, guys? What if the crucible doesn't work?"

As I was playing the game, I was actually kinda assuming that it wouldn't do anything.

As I was playing, I was operating under the assumption that the Crucible was a MacGuffin designed by a race in one of the previous cycles specifically to be a huge undertaking requiring massive amounts of resources in order to force future races to band together and take on the Reapers as an organized team-effort.

When Shepard and Anderson were sitting shoulder to shoulder, watching the battle rage on outside the Citadel/Crucible... then Hackett radios you to tell you that it isn't doing anything... I thought for sure that Shepard would at that moment come to the realization that the Crucible wasn't a weapon, it was just meant to help bring everyone together.....

...

Then the light elevator happened...

...

Then things get kinda hazy...

 

[Da Orky Man]

Lots of valid points here.

I have no problem with the multiplayer on its own, I think it's pretty fun. However, forcing players to play it in order to achieve the 'best possible ending' is BS. Did anyone here manage to get 4000+ EMS with a default Galactic Readiness of 50%? Because that would blow my mind.

I managed 3400 with 54% GR,and I had a lot of quests left. It would probably take a while, and you'd need both the Geth and Quarians on your side, but \i think you could do it.

I beg to differ. My first playthrough of ME3 was without multiplayer support (my 360 was not connected online). I used a savegame from ME1 and ME2. I completed all side missions in ME3 and played Paragon so I was making friends where it counted. I managed a TMS of about 6800 which meant an EMS of 3400 due to my GR of 50%. I was pretty damn thorough and I was nowhere near the requisite 4000 let alone 5000.

Did you scan enough planets to get the discovery bonuses? I kept finding caches of weapons to defend the Crucible that rose my EMS. And did you get both the quarians and geth. they give you a massive bonus. Did the Council die?

 

[Mikeyfell]

1. "Galactic Readiness"

The worst part about this is that in 10 years, when I want to go back and play the trilogy again (Assuming that the extended cut DLC makes the trilogy worth playing through again) I won't be able to because the multyplayer servers will be dead. So I won't be able to max out my EMS

And this is only part of the bigger underlining problem in ME 3. The game has been reduced from an emotional journey to mathematical one. Taking my hard decisions, applying numbers to them and factoring them in to the "How-well-did-I-do-a-tron" diminishes what Mass Effect was about. Or at least I thought it did, but since they apply numbers to all the decisions that carry over from the previous games that's what Mass Effect's been about filling up a bar with numbers the whole time. This is what they're talking about when they say that ME 3 ruined the first two games to.

2. The Quest Tracking

Yeah, I rarely ever open my journal anyway but with the abundance of clutter and fetch quests I found my self hoping to track some of them in ME 3 and I'm met with this?
I made a habit of doing a round of the Citadel after every single mission just to see what I could turn it.

But the plethora of Fetch Quests is very closely tied in to what I feel is the biggest problem in ME 3 and that is the mute Shepard. Mass Effect 3 isn't about talking to people any more, it's about eavesdropping. Do you remember the Krogan who wanted the Presidium fish? Of course you do. It's because you spoke to him. Do you remember the bar manager at Purgatory who wanted power grid schematics? Probably not, what about the Volus who wanted the Book of Plenix? Maybe. The point is that you didn't talk to these people and by the end of it all you're probably sick of hearing Shepard say "I over heard you talking and thought this would help." And it's not just about the lack of talking to the fetch quest people on the Citadel. Compared to Mass Effect 2 there's a completely negligible amount of dialog convo's in ME 3. Think about any mission in ME 2 (Except for the one where you break Jack out of prison.) and compare the amount of time you spend talking to the time you spend shooting. It's about even, and evenly distributed. (Think about Thane's recruitment mission, you can't go 10 minutes without running into some Salarian workers to talk to.) Think of any mission in ME 3. There's talking at the beginning, then an entire mission's worth of shooting bad guys, then there's talking at the end. And every single mission is structured that way except the one with the female Krogan.

3. Invisible Characters

How about characters never making eye contact in cutscenes?
How about Specialist Traynor's head turning all the way around like Linda Blair in the Exorcist?

4. Fuglyface Imports

If you've spent some time on the BSN, you can probably name about 12 different threads in which 1000s of people with custom Shepard faces complain that upon import into ME3 their character appears to have suffered botched plastic surgery. And if the screenshots are any indication, the problem is far from solved.

Or that it was over a month until you even had the option to import the face of your custom Shepard. I don't understand how a game ships with a bug that breaks the game before you even start playing. Bioware's QA department should be lined up against a wall and shot.

5. The Rachni

Again, putting aside the ending, the consequences of choosing to save/kill the Queen in ME1 where nowhere near as profound as advertised. Basically the choice amounts to 1 model being reskinned, and a different modulator being used to voice it.

I was looking forward to seeing what Grunt's mission was like if you killed the Rachnai in ME 1, but it was exactly the same (Save 1 dialog option and the amount of numbers being applied to the "How-well-did-I-do-a-tron").
It's just part of a disturbing trend of player choice not mattering for shit.
Whether or not you saved the Council hardly mattered
Which human got the council seat did not matter at all, even though over half the story was based on the human councilor betraying the Citadel. (I would love to see what that mission was like if Anderson was a Councilor)
What you did with the Collector base didn't matter because Cerberus is the main bad guy no matter what.
Whether or not you were against the Quarians attacking the Geth didn't matter. (Here's a little math Admiral Garal and Xen are pro war. Tali and Koris are against it. That means Raan supports the war? That means Raan voted against Tali? That doesn't make sense.)
Turning down Spectre status in ME 2 didn't matter
Picking Morinth over Samara was pointless.
Cheating on your love interest doesn't matter.
About the only thing that has a tangible effect on ME 3 is whether you saved Melon's data or not.

6. "The Crucible"

I still have trouble believing the Crucible even existed in the first place.
Why didn't Vigil say anything in Mass Effect 1?
The thing Vigil does tell you is that the Protheans broke the Reaper's hold on the Keepers.
But Victory tells you that it was a cycle before the Protheans that incorporated the Citadel into the Crucible plans. So the Reapers should know about it.

If this cycle can build the Crucible in a month or two (Or how ever long Mass Effect 3 took)
why couldn't any previous cycle ever finish construction? especially the Protheans who fought the Reapers for centuries? I know the Reapers took the Citadel early on but Victory said they never even finished construction of the Crucible. It's a tangled bloated mess of plot holes that only serves to pave the way for the ending.

7. Writers Playing Favorites With Squadmates

Mass Effect 1 had a relatively small party that wanted for diversity. Mass Effect 2 had a huge cast of wildly different squadmates. What's more, you had the option of gaining their loyalty by spending time with/on them- or just ignoring them completely! It seemed like we were gonna have even more control over our squad's composition in the final installment... and then it came out. Here's the rundown: Garrus & Liara are your best friends and confidants, the Virmire survivor is back, Tali shows up eventually, EDI is your tech expert... and some white guy who got run over by a tequila bootlegger is your muscle. Everyone else is sidelined, regardless of prior choice. Including your potential love interests.

Oh, and I can still call bullshit on Javik/day 1 DLC because it's got fuck all to do with the games conclusion. Javik is the ONLY interesting new addition to the crew, and he costs 10 bucks.

Lots of characters got shafted as far as dialog goes,
ME 1 had a few missions and a lot of dialog
ME 2 had a lot of missions and a lot of dialog, (It got to the point where the dialog seemed to few and far between)
ME 3 had a lot of missions and hardly any dialog. That IS a step backwards! Bioware took the most important part of their game and just did away with it. Liara doesn't have anything to say to you. Kaiden/Ashley and Tali are only there for half a game. Nobody knows James. and they made EDI uninteresting. Garrus is the only one who has anything to say after every mission. (Which I guess is repentance for him having the least to say in ME 2)

Not to mention a bunch of characters that didn't get any face time. Kal'Regar, Emily Wong, Gianna Parasini, Morinth, The Krogan who wanted the fish, anyone from Ferros. and many more.
It makes me wonder what anyone at Bioware was thinking. "Nobody who played the first two games liked talking to people. Why don't we take that boring crap out of our game all together!"

8. So... if The Collectors had technology that could instantly seek out an immobilize entire populations...

I... Didn't even realize that until you pointed it out. it makes me want to face palm even harder.


I also notice you didn't mention the God Awful controls
Seriously, 5 commands on one button?
5 opposing commands on one button.
I didn't even know that you could get 5 things to be polar opposites.
Run, take cover, vault, roll, use.
It's like they thought giving every enemy a cheep ass attack didn't make the game frustrating enough, they had to make the game mentally exhausting to play by leaving all the important maneuvers completely up to chance.

 

[RJ 17]

I wondered aloud, several times, while I was playing ME3 "Hey, guys? What if the crucible doesn't work?"

As I was playing the game, I was actually kinda assuming that it wouldn't do anything.

As I was playing, I was operating under the assumption that the Crucible was a MacGuffin designed by a race in one of the previous cycles specifically to be a huge undertaking requiring massive amounts of resources in order to force future races to band together and take on the Reapers as an organized team-effort.

When Shepard and Anderson were sitting shoulder to shoulder, watching the battle rage on outside the Citadel/Crucible... then Hackett radios you to tell you that it isn't doing anything... I thought for sure that Shepard would at that moment come to the realization that the Crucible wasn't a weapon, it was just meant to help bring everyone together.....

...

Then the light elevator happened...

...

Then things get kinda hazy...

That's certainly an interesting way to look at things...the Crucible as being a way to bring the galaxy together. Buuuuuut I have to disagree as I think there's evidence throughout the game that shows that the Crucible is supposed to work. People keep mentioning that it is something capable of producing enormous amounts of energy they just need a way to focus the energy...that is, the Catalyst.

The truth of the matter is that no one - not even the Protheans - had any idea what the Crucible was supposed to do, only that the cycle before them seemed convinced that it could end the war.

If it were just a giant device to get the galaxy united and working together, it'd actually be a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. By all accounts there is no way to defeat the Reapers conventionally, a doomsday device is the only ope the galaxy has. An all out war against the Reapers with every fleet might lead to a very bloody battle with heavy losses on both sides, but the Reapers would come out on top.

Now, had the galaxy listened to Shepard from the very beginning and thus had one gigantic, massive fleet ready and waiting for the Reapers, it might have been different. But as-is the fleet - while the largest in galactic history - is still made up of the remnants of fleets that have already had their effective strength depleted in battles against the Reapers.

 

[Goofguy]

Lots of valid points here.

I have no problem with the multiplayer on its own, I think it's pretty fun. However, forcing players to play it in order to achieve the 'best possible ending' is BS. Did anyone here manage to get 4000+ EMS with a default Galactic Readiness of 50%? Because that would blow my mind.

I managed 3400 with 54% GR,and I had a lot of quests left. It would probably take a while, and you'd need both the Geth and Quarians on your side, but \i think you could do it.

I beg to differ. My first playthrough of ME3 was without multiplayer support (my 360 was not connected online). I used a savegame from ME1 and ME2. I completed all side missions in ME3 and played Paragon so I was making friends where it counted. I managed a TMS of about 6800 which meant an EMS of 3400 due to my GR of 50%. I was pretty damn thorough and I was nowhere near the requisite 4000 let alone 5000.

Did you scan enough planets to get the discovery bonuses? I kept finding caches of weapons to defend the Crucible that rose my EMS. And did you get both the quarians and geth. they give you a massive bonus. Did the Council die?

I was pretty damn thorough with the scanning, probably spent a third of my game time doing it. Looking back on it, maybe I missed out on one or two scanned assets. Yup, I got both the Quarians and the Geth. And I saved the council.

In retrospect, the biggest hits to my military strength were the Alliance's losses when they saved the Council and the odds and ends I missed out on like Conrad Verner and Kelly Chambers' ex-Cerberus friends. In terms of the Krogan Genophage resolution, I think the best outcome (numerically, that is) is curing it, with Wrex in charge, Eve surviving (due to Maelon's data) and the bomb de-activated. Unless sabotaging the cure with Wreav in charge, Eve dead, Mordin surviving, bomb de-activated which adds Salarian support is better.

All in all, I am confident that I got at least 90% of the assets unless there is a massive glaring asset I missed.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

That's certainly an interesting way to look at things...the Crucible as being a way to bring the galaxy together. Buuuuuut I have to disagree as I think there's evidence throughout the game that shows that the Crucible is supposed to work. People keep mentioning that it is something capable of producing enormous amounts of energy they just need a way to focus the energy...that is, the Catalyst.

There may have been evidence that it would do something, but there was no real reason to believe that it would be a weapon. For all Hackett knew, the thing might have turned out to be a giant flashlight, or a massive high-tech version of one of those little pop guns that shoots out a "Bang!" flag (although hopefully with a sweet lazer light show!).

The truth of the matter is that no one - not even the Protheans - had any idea what the Crucible was supposed to do, only that the cycle before them seemed convinced that it could end the war.

But... if my (obviously canonically wrong) theory was accurate, wouldn't it still have ended the war (assuming war resources were adequate)?

If it were just a giant device to get the galaxy united and working together, it'd actually be a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. By all accounts there is no way to defeat the Reapers conventionally, a doomsday device is the only ope the galaxy has. An all out war against the Reapers with every fleet might lead to a very bloody battle with heavy losses on both sides, but the Reapers would come out on top.

No argument about it being a waste of resources. But if a bit of wastefulness is what it takes to make everyone set aside their differences and work toward a common goal... isn't it worth it in the end?

I would actually argue that it is possible to defeat them conventionally, though. They're tough, and there are a lot of them - no doubt about that. But we've seen them destroyed. Shepard has personally seen a few of them taken out without the Crucible, and they're definitely seen taking significant damage from the Victory Fleet's guns.

Javik admits that the reason why his cycle failed to defeat the Reapers conventionally was because the organics of his cycle were far too homogenized. Though he didn't seem particularly confident in the Victory Fleet's chances, he did seem to imply that he felt they stood a much better chance at defeating the Reapers conventionally than his own people. I suppose you could argue that he was making that claim with the assumption that the Victory Fleet was being backed by the Crucible, but he also admits that he's a soldier - not a scientist - and wasn't qualified to make any assumptions at all about the Crucible or what it does.

Now, had the galaxy listened to Shepard from the very beginning and thus had one gigantic, massive fleet ready and waiting for the Reapers, it might have been different. But as-is the fleet - while the largest in galactic history - is still made up of the remnants of fleets that have already had their effective strength depleted in battles against the Reapers.

100% totally agreed about the galaxy listening to Shepard (damn you, Turian councilor!)... but it didn't. Clearly, something needed to bring everyone together. The Crucible, with a little bit of help from Shepard, proceeded to do that against odds that had previously been believed to be insurmountable.

Again, I know the theory I was going by while I was playing ended up being wrong. But I do still think it could have been quite sound.

Frankly, I think we could have ended the war with a lot less bloodshed if only we'd just introduced the Reapers to humanity's finest achievement - pancakes. If only they'd known the pure concentrated awesome of pancakes, maybe they would have spared us.

I could really go for some pancakes now. Damnit.

 

[RJ 17]

That's certainly an interesting way to look at things...the Crucible as being a way to bring the galaxy together. Buuuuuut I have to disagree as I think there's evidence throughout the game that shows that the Crucible is supposed to work. People keep mentioning that it is something capable of producing enormous amounts of energy they just need a way to focus the energy...that is, the Catalyst.

There may have been evidence that it would do something, but there was no real reason to believe that it would be a weapon. For all Hackett knew, the thing might have turned out to be a giant flashlight, or a massive high-tech version of one of those little pop guns that shoots out a "Bang!" flag (although hopefully with a sweet lazer light show!).

It's only described as a "weapon" by military people, but that's only because Liara keeps saying "it's a device that the Protheans believed could wipe out the Reapers." They don't know what it's supposed to do, but they do know that it's supposed to destroy Reapers, so they call it a "weapon" since it'll be used to defeat the reapers.

The truth of the matter is that no one - not even the Protheans - had any idea what the Crucible was supposed to do, only that the cycle before them seemed convinced that it could end the war.

But... if my (obviously canonically wrong) theory was accurate, wouldn't it still have ended the war (assuming war resources were adequate)?

I'd say no, seeing as how the entire game every military leader keeps saying "There's no way we can win conventionally." If it was as simple as gathering up a massive fleet and throwing it at the Reapers, I'd imagine the galaxy would have been fine to begin with considering Shepard's actions, but I'll get to that further on down.

If it were just a giant device to get the galaxy united and working together, it'd actually be a MASSIVE waste of time and resources. By all accounts there is no way to defeat the Reapers conventionally, a doomsday device is the only ope the galaxy has. An all out war against the Reapers with every fleet might lead to a very bloody battle with heavy losses on both sides, but the Reapers would come out on top.

No argument about it being a waste of resources. But if a bit of wastefulness is what it takes to make everyone set aside their differences and work toward a common goal... isn't it worth it in the end?

I would actually argue that it is possible to defeat them conventionally, though. They're tough, and there are a lot of them - no doubt about that. But we've seen them destroyed. Shepard has personally seen a few of them taken out without the Crucible, and they're definitely seen taking significant damage from the Victory Fleet's guns.

Javik admits that the reason why his cycle failed to defeat the Reapers conventionally was because the organics of his cycle were far too homogenized. Though he didn't seem particularly confident in the Victory Fleet's chances, he did seem to imply that he felt they stood a much better chance at defeating the Reapers conventionally than his own people. I suppose you could argue that he was making that claim with the assumption that the Victory Fleet was being backed by the Crucible, but he also admits that he's a soldier - not a scientist - and wasn't qualified to make any assumptions at all about the Crucible or what it does.

Ahhhh but it's not The Crucible that brings the galaxy together...it's Shepard and his massive testicles that do so. Did the Crucible cure the genophage? Nope. Did the Crucible end the war between the Geth and Quarians? Nope. Sure, once the various groups signed on they committed resources to helping with the Crucible, but Shepard wasn't able to just show up and be like "SOMEONE SET US UP THE BOMB! ALL REAPER BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!" and have everyone go "Holy shit, you're right! We all need to build this thing! Screw settling our own differences, lets help with this!"

Javik says they have a better chance for success because "There was no final great battle for (his) cycle." So many things were different about the current cycle. Galactic governments weren't immediately smashed by the Citadel Ambush as the Reapers use as their Plan A. The Relays were still accessible because of this. Things were not as grim (yet) as they were in the Prothean cycle...there were true reasons for hope, namely the Crucible was completed and ready for deployment (and all the amazing things that Shepard does in ME 3).

As for taking out the Reapers, the only Reapers Shepard takes out are Destroyers which are most effective as ground forces...there's still the vast hordes of "Sovereign-Class" Reapers that make up the bulk of the Reaper fleet. You remember Sovereign, right? The single ship that took 3 fleets to destroy? And even then they only succeeded because Sovereign made the mistake of linking it's mind to Saren's body thus utterly stunning the great machine once Shepard destroyed Saren? Yeah, they've got a fleet of those bastards.

Now, had the galaxy listened to Shepard from the very beginning and thus had one gigantic, massive fleet ready and waiting for the Reapers, it might have been different. But as-is the fleet - while the largest in galactic history - is still made up of the remnants of fleets that have already had their effective strength depleted in battles against the Reapers.

100% totally agreed about the galaxy listening to Shepard (damn you, Turian councilor!)... but it didn't. Clearly, something needed to bring everyone together. The Crucible, with a little bit of help from Shepard, proceeded to do that against odds that had previously been believed to be insurmountable.

Again, I know the theory I was going by while I was playing ended up being wrong. But I do still think it could have been quite sound.

Frankly, I think we could have ended the war with a lot less bloodshed if only we'd just introduced the Reapers to humanity's finest achievement - pancakes. If only they'd known the pure concentrated awesome of pancakes, maybe they would have spared us.

I could really go for some pancakes now. Damnit.

Again, the Crucible had absolutely nothing to do with uniting the galaxy. It gave them all something to work on, but it was Shepard and his pure, Master-Chief-*****-Slapping Machismo that united the galaxy.

And it would be Chipotle burritos, if any food product, that could get the Reapers to cease their rampage.

 

[Simonoly]

For me, the most pathetic thing about ME3 was the galaxy map exploration.

The Mako sections in Mass Effect 1 and the planet scanning in ME2 were far from perfect, but at least you had to actually do something and carrying them out required at least some intelligent input from the player (e.g. ME2 probes cost credits and credits are in a finite supply so you have to be thoughtful about which minerals you extract from a planet in order to construct the upgrades you need). But with ME3 it's completely brainless. You enter a system, fly around scanning to find one maybe two planets with a war asset. Then you scan that planet to find the single war asset there with infinite probes to obtain it. When the percentage of war assets reaches 100 you're done and that's it! There's ZERO variability in what you can do! You can't fail anything. Even if the Reapers detect you they're so easy to avoid and you can just doge in and out of the system to get everything available.

The've relegated the galaxy map exploration to a pointless collection of hoops to jump through in order to increase a bar that has very little effect on the story.

I think the best thing about ME3 is the multiplayer. Oh dear...

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

And it would be Chipotle burritos, if any food product, that could get the Reapers to cease their rampage.

Burritos? I suppose forcing them all to need a restroom break would be one way to cease their rampage...

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on the other stuff, though (well, and probably that one too!). While I don't deny that Shepard was super-important to getting everyone together, I also doubt everyone would have given up forces that could have been used to defend their own homes if they didn't think Shepard (and the Alliance/Council by extension)believed, deep down, that the Crucible could destroy (or maybe disable?) the Reapers, regardless of what it actually was going to do (if anything at all).

Granted, this is all assuming there's any credibility at all to a theory that the game's ending proved inaccurate... along with many other theories that were unfortunately better than what we got.

Not even the power of pancakes and chipotle burritos could save us from the disappointment we got from the hands of the rEApers.

 

[RJ 17]

And it would be Chipotle burritos, if any food product, that could get the Reapers to cease their rampage.

Burritos? I suppose forcing them all to need a restroom break would be one way to cease their rampage...

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on the other stuff, though (well, and probably that one too!). While I don't deny that Shepard was super-important to getting everyone together, I also doubt everyone would have given up forces that could have been used to defend their own homes if they didn't think Shepard (and the Alliance/Council by extension)believed, deep down, that the Crucible could destroy (or maybe disable?) the Reapers, regardless of what it actually was going to do (if anything at all).

Granted, this is all assuming there's any credibility at all to a theory that the game's ending proved inaccurate... along with many other theories that were unfortunately better than what we got.

Not even the power of pancakes and chipotle burritos could save us from the disappointment we got from the hands of the rEApers.

All I've been doing since the beginning of our little conversation is showing you that you wouldn't have to wait for the end to have your theory disproved. This is the internet, we're on a forum, we're SUPPOSED to make asses out of ourselves by arguing for argument's sake! While the Crucible certainly does offer the hope of "We've got a plan other than just going kamikazi against the Reaper fleet", the Turians refused to help unless the Krogan helped them, the Krogan refused to help unless the genophage was cured, the Asari refused to help because they're a bunch of stuck up blue lesbians, the Salarians refused to help because they're a bunch of isolationist bastards, and the Quarians done gone went and attacked the Geth, locking up both of those fleets. It was Shepard that took the necessary steps to ensure that people signed on, if your theory were correct, simply mentioning "I Haz Crucible" would get the various races to help. Hell, the game could have been over at the very beginning when you speak with the Council and say "We need everyone to work together, we've got the plans for the Crucible, join us so we can win!" but the Council shoots Shepard down...[sub]god damn fucking Salarian councilor always shaking his head every time two people look at him....[/sub]

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

snippety snip

And it's so wrong to be an opportunist? Well... okay, maybe it is. But still, it's not unreasonable for a race to put its own interests first and foremost. Frankly, I'd find it to be pretty unrealistic for anybody to devote their best military and scientific personnel to a cause, even one as great as that, if they didn't believe they personally were going to in some way profit (beyond winning).

The Turians were already under attack, if they didn't get the support of a race that they believed could hold their own in battle, there would have been no home for their military to return to. The Asari and Humans were in the same situations, and couldn't offer support. The Batarians were mostly wiped out. The Salarians, with the exception of the STG, are often seen as weak in battle (and even then, STG is really more about sabotage than ground warfare). So who does that really leave that's in a position to actually be okay with devoting the troops and resources, and can be trusted to fight fiercely? The Krogans.

The Krogans can also definitely have a very understandable asterisk at the end of their agreement to join up and fight. It's likely that they would take heavy casualties defending the Crucible from the Reapers, which is devastating for a race with such low birth rates. The losses that they could potentially take might potentially doom the entire species if something wasn't done about the genophage. And is it unreasonable to assume that to a Krogan, something like this might be their only chance for a real long time (or maybe ever) to get the other races to change their mind about the genophage?

The Asari were in the same position as the Turians, obligated to help their own and sparing what they could for the Crucible - except that, like the Turians, they had nothing to spare. By the time they got their chance in the narrative to make the same sort of deal the Turians made, it was too late. Upon discovery that the only hope was working together with the whole Crucible shindig that was brewing... Asari fleet, reporting in.

Salarians... ehhhh.... they're jerks. Fuck 'em.

The Quarians didn't appear to even be all that aware of the Crucible project until Shepard and the Alliance came along to request support. They just happened to already be at war with the Geth at the time. Notably, Geth that were under the direct influence of the Reapers. Note that by helping the Quarians against the Geth, you're actively removing a large war resource from the Reapers (or converting that resource to fight alongside everyone else), so it only makes sense for that situation to be resolved before devoting full support. The Quarians getting their home planet back was merely a perk.

Shepard was the deal-maker to sign everyone on, which is why I absolutely believe that Shepard was important, but the Crucible existed as the MacGuffin to make the races believe that they weren't just wasting their time and diverting resources that could have helped their own people for nothing. If the Alliance didn't have the Crucible under construction and the hope that it would save the day, I think Shepard would have gotten significantly different responses from the various races.

And really, the Crucible plan is really the only thing that gets anyone to initially give Shepard a second glance. If Hackett hadn't interrupted the Normandy's trip to the Citadel with a detour to Mars, it's likely that Shepard would have only been able to drum up light (if any) reinforcements for Earth, since everyone would have been busy setting up their own defenses.

And yeah... I've got nothing against pointless arguing. It's a slow day at my office. Just watching that clock tick, and tick, and tick away until it's time to get hammered.

 

[Ascarus]

while this is mostly true,

Spoiler

if you want the couple second end shot of shepherd taking in a breath

after choosing red, green or blue, you need an EMS > 5000 (4000?). either way that number cannot be reached without participating in the MP game.

fuck that bullshit. MP participation should never impact the SP campaign in any way. period.

Like I said, I had 6500 war assets and finished the game before I ever touched the multiplayer, so I know for a fact it's 100% possible to beat the game with the required amount of EMS without playing the multiplayer once. You just have to import a game from at least ME2 to have enough.

But if you ask me, if you jump into the third game of a trilogy without playing the first two, you aren't allowed to complain about it not catering to your every whim.

!?!

How did you get that many war assets without going online? I've imported my save from the very first game and the most I can get is roughly 3100!

it cannot be done without either a modified coalesced.bin file or participating in the MP game. you can get a TOTAL MILITARY STRENGTH (TMS) well over 5000 very easily. BUT your READINESS RATING will be stuck at 50% unless you participate in the MP. As such any value you have for TMS is multiplied by .5 and that is your EFFECTIVE MILITARY STRENGTH (EMS). you CANNOT get over 5000 EMS in the single player game w/o multi-player participation or an editted coalesced.bin file.

even if you import saved characters from ME1 and ME2 from the very beginning and stay paragon the entire way. there simply aren't enough military units in ME3 to recruit to get there to get to the required 5000 EMS.

officially i don't think bioware has ever confirmed or denied this, but data miners have shown what is available in the game. if you are interested here is a pretty comprehensive thread about this on bioware's forums -- hell it is all spelled out in the first post:

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/323/index/10481662/1

 

[Erttheking]

Meh, minor problems that didn't really bug me.

I'd explain why I disagree but RJ17 already did that pretty well.

 

[RJ 17]

What do we snip apart from snippage? MOAR SNIPPAGE!

That's certainly a mouthful considering the brevity of my post that prompted it, but I guess you're just better explaining the details of your theory.

The Batarians were hit right out of the gate, this is why the Alpha Relay had to be destroyed, so yeah, they weren't coming to anyone's help to begin with. However after wiping those bastard Batarians out and stocking up on Cannibals, the Reapers headed straight for the Sol system to take out the biggest threat presented to them: humanity (FUCK YEAH FOR THE HUMANS! ). The Turians, Asari, and Salarians hadn't been hit yet. Well, the Turians were the next target after Earth. But there's no such excuse for the Asari and Salarians. Both those races know specifically that the Crucible is being built, and yet they don't help out. They both take isolationist approaches "We're gonna beef up our own defenses rather than pitch in to help your gamble."

Of course there's going to be a lot of "We gotta look out for ourselves" mentalities to break through...and that's what Shepard does by brokering the legendary alliances that he does. The turians vow to help Shepard not because he's got the Crucible plans, but only if he can manage to get the Krogan to help the situation on Palaven (while Earth still burns). The Krogan - grateful for being cured - vow to help you just for helping them out. The Quarians - having just regained their homeworld only to have it threatened once more - are willing to fight to protect what they've just won. The Geth - having gained full intelligence AND free will - know the Reapers must be destroyed and join up as well. The asari - seeing that they're officially the odd-man-out (so to speak) only offer their aid once Thessia is in the direct line of fire. Think how easy the game would have been had the asari councilor approached Shepard after the council meeting at the beginning of the game and said "Shepard...we cannot commit our fleets to you...but there is something on Thessia that you should really take a look at. It might help with this Prothean device of yours..." At which point Shepard could go to Thessia BEFORE it's utterly destroyed, acquire the Prothean VI right then and there, and apparently that would really be all they needed to help build the Crucible and get the Catalyst.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

Snippity-doo-dah, Snippity-ay

Just because the Crucible was designed specifically to be a huge undertaking to bring everyone together, doesn't necessarily mean it would succeed. If a race or races wanted to remain isolationists, it's not like the Crucible would shoot out rainbow happy rays of cooperation (maybe?) that would sway those races to join the fight. It merely existed as an object to give people hope that working together toward a single goal as a unified force could potentially defeat the Reapers once and for all.

Shepard was the agent who got the ball rolling, but without his (her?) diehard belief in the Crucible, it likely would have been far harder to convince everyone to leave their planets and their people behind. The Crucible gave everyone the hope that if they stood their ground in the Sol system, they'd never have to fight the battle on their own streets. If they didn't believe in the Crucible, for all they knew they'd be sending their forces into the grinder only to leave their homes defenseless.

There's also the argument about Shepard and possible bias. Assuming there's no Crucible, why should anyone have gone along with Shepard's pleas for support? Wouldn't he (she?) just be seen as a man (woman?) acting out of desperation to save his (her?) home? How would his (her?) pleas be any different than the ones from every other planet being invaded?

Shepard: Send your fleets to save Earth!
Turians: Fuck you! Send your fleets to save Palaven!

If anything, given the galaxy's stance toward humanity as a whole, it's likely that we would have just been thrown under the bus and left to fend for ourselves, to delay the Reapers long enough for everyone else to get their own defenses prepared (since humanity's defenses clearly weren't).

Oh, and obligatory follow-up FUCK YEAH, HUMANITY!

Edit:
And woohoo! Thank you for an amusing way to pass the time during a boring day at work, but now its time to get hammered! Yay!

 

[Doneeee]

Oh another me3 thread. I think I'm going to go hide until they're all gone.

 

[Emiscary]

Oh another me3 thread. I think I'm going to go hide until they're all gone.

If you could do so quietly I'm sure everyone would appreciate it.