The Escapist Community is a tad too toxic

[runic knight]

I find that to be the source of the toxicity. An OP posing a question, or making a statement, and the majority of posters latching onto one sentence that they personally take issue with. They ignore the rest of the OP, or more often the main point, in order to focus on something irrelevant to the discussion as a whole. I could find more examples but your already on the site. Just look around.

*reads thread*

That thread went to shit because many people are familiar with the OP. He's constantly doomsaying about political correctness.

So when he makes a thread claiming that a comic about a female Muslim superhero didn't deserve an award people start maaking some obvious conclusions. Especially when he ends his post with, "It just seems to me it got an award for "diversity" rather than actual merits which makes me wonder what the fuck happened to our culture." People latched onto that sentence because it was the crux of his issue and the main thrust of his argument.

That said, you're not wrong about the forum having essentially divided itself along battle lines. A lot of the activity is the same set of faces repeatedly clashing over similar topics. Hell, I'd probably be one of them if I posted more often.

And that girl was totally asking for it, everyone knows she is a slut anyways, right?

Yesh, I can see why people saw the "victim blaming" similarities very well here.

Whatever someone's personal feelings towards the OP of the tread may be, coming into it just to attack them instead of at least trying to use the topic as it was intended, to be discussed, is just wrong. There is no excuse, and that sort of justification perfectly highlights the issue. It happening time to time is one thing, but this is a frequent issue.

Someone latching onto that sentence after jumping to a conclusion really makes it come off as arguing in bad faith. It demonstrates taking a topic and turning it into a petty personal battleground, and really just makes this OP's point for him.

The forums are more toxic then they have been, and the habit of some users to join a thread just to shit it up and post petty jabs or derail for personal political pedantry is a large reason why. It breeds hostility and between that and the general issue of passive aggression in the forums, it is no wonder so many in the community are not happy with things.

 

[BreakfastMan]

It's not just you noticing. The forum has basically become an even worse version of R&P.

Been saying this for mooooooooooooooonths.

Annoyingly so.

Gratingly so.

...I'm so lonely.

See, the only problem is that it doesn't bother me. I was born in R&P, molded by it.

"I am the R&P, Randy"

OT: No, you are too toxic, you terrible person!

Anyway, the community has certainly gotten more toxic over time, mostly due to a number of major events driving wedges and creating hostility in the community. People like to mention GamerGate, and that was certainly the latest and the worst, but the community has been going down this path for a while (see: the initial appearance of Anita, Retake Mass Effect, etc.). The old community managers like Nasrin managed to slow it down for a period, but the community manager before our current one essentially did jack shit and let the community rot. It certainly didn't help that GamerGate struck during that time either, and I think that is definitely one of the primary reasons that contributed to it going out of control here.

 

[Saetha]

Ironically the various attempts to be more inclusive have only driven people further apart.

What attempts were made to be more inclusive?

Various attempts? General talk about how the community needs to be more welcoming and accepting?

I mean what actual attempts because I am utterly unaware of any.

General talk isn't exactly an attempt at anything...

I didn't mean active attempts - it's not like the Escapist's been putting out recruiting booths on the streets. But there's definitely been a tonal shift on this site and in gaming in general about including everyone.

Oh I'm so sorry instead of asking when someone says something I find odd I'll just believe mindlessly. There is that better? It was a simple question to you but if it's ever so toxic to merely ask a question I can respond like this instead.

Given your reply, and the fact that you got into it with a poster directly above my comment, you're kind of proving the OP's point...

 

[madwarper]

I imagined that wasn't an attempt at inclusivity so much as it not being against the rules and them not being willing to take the step to say they didn't want it.

Possibly. I don't claim to be knowledgeable about the history of GG, but it seemed that other forums were constantly closing/deleting threads and banning members that spoke of it. So, I imagine that allowing the conversation to exist on the Escapist was a way to not only keep the members we had, but to also be inclusive to those that were ostracized from other sites.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

that had to be one of the most frustrating threads I've ever read in my life.

On one side the people who defending book were like "you didn't like the Book you must be a bigot who hates diversity."

And the other side was like "yes you're right the only reason anyone likes it because of diversity and they are nothing more than machine unlike us because we are not controlled by the sjw"

And I just want to scream...

[HEADING=1]MAYBE PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT THINGS THAN YOU![/HEADING]

I mean holy shit is that so hard to understand that people simply like/hate things you don't like/hate, no it has to be some political motive! I mean holy Shit.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I imagined that wasn't an attempt at inclusivity so much as it not being against the rules and them not being willing to take the step to say they didn't want it.

Possibly. I don't claim to be knowledgeable about the history of GG, but it seemed that other forums were constantly closing/deleting threads and banning members that spoke of it. So, I imagine that allowing the conversation to exist on the Escapist was a way to not only keep the members we had, but to also be inclusive to those that were ostracized from other sites.

Possible. Not apparently what the person who orignarly said it was thinking when they meant it though. But I could see it the way you put it kind of possibly.

 

[Nazulu]

Nah, it's always been toxic one way or another. Whether it's people getting their knickers in a twist over a misunderstanding or thinking of the worst thing when glossing over something, people are ready to throw their shit as a mob.

Everyone just needs to get that they should do their best not looking at those topics in the worst way straight away, and I say that when it comes to other Escapee's especially. Company's like EA and Konami can go fuck themselves.

 

[Saetha]

It's all the fault of a general tone of inclusiveness.

I wouldn't say it's the fault of that. Just an ironic parallel development.

Yes and it isn't a response to your friendly accusation was it? Oh poor innocent Saetha not at all confrontational why would anyone reply like that to poor Saetha.

I wrongly assumed the intentions of your question. Sorry about that. But honestly, at this point you've been far more confrontational then me.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

It's all the fault of a general tone of inclusiveness.

I wouldn't say it's the fault of that. Just an ironic parallel development.

Well you literally said the various attempts to be more inclusive have only driven people further apart. Which I can only read as saying they were the cause kr at least part of it. So if that was just poorly phrased before okay.

Yes and it isn't a response to your friendly accusation was it? Oh poor innocent Saetha not at all confrontational why would anyone reply like that to poor Saetha.

I wrongly assumed the intentions of your question. Sorry about that. But honestly, at this point you've been far more confrontational then me.

I have never claimed I don't respond in kind for the sake of peace. I do respond in kind even if it won't make things any happier

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

And that girl was totally asking for it, everyone knows she is a slut anyways, right?

seriously dude if there is a Godwin law version of rape that would be it. That was kind of poor taste. There is a time and a place for rape analogy and it isn't when you disagree with someone on the Internet.

 

[Something Amyss]

An OP posing a question, or making a statement, and the majority of posters latching onto one sentence that they personally take issue with.

That's great, except it was not an incidental, throwaway statement. That's where things start to fall apart in terms of the argument of toxicity. The irony is that there's long been a very toxic issue in our community of outrage because [thing I don't like] getting praise or [thing I like] not getting praise. We're to the point that a 9/10 score is sufficient to warrant someone being fired for "hating" a game.

But people really don't seem to want to address that, so...I don't know, whatever.

That's kinda like victim blaming isn't it? It's the OPs fault for making reasons others don't agree with.

No, victim blaming would entail saying that he was somehow asking for, say, insults. Nothing in that thread of which I'm aware was out of line. People responded within the framework set out by the OP.

Everything always seems to look worse now than in the past

Can't really say if it is or not tho

We need an empirical study to determine this!

I think we should all investigate ourselves. I'll start by looking into my conduct, interviewing me, and determining that I am awesome. You should do the same.

We can all report back with our findings.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Yeah, there really is an edge of bitterness to the forums. Most of the regular posters now, just sound weary of the whole forum discussion thing and the lack of new fresh posters is really killing the site.

 

[Redd the Sock]

While less polite about it, I pretty much said the same thing in that thread: Too many people trying to eat the poster alive instead of, you know, explaining why he was wrong and the book was good because of reasons A, B, or C (I gave up on that on 2 pages in and by that point the best that had been given was it was somewhat well written, which is like saying it's good because it's good).

 

[BloatedGuppy]

There is plenty of civil discussion to be found on this website. There is also plenty of uncivil discussion. The latter tends to cluster in controversial threads, and particularly in controversy-baiting threads, like the one described in the OP. If one creates a thread intended to provoke/antagonize a hotly contested debate, one cannot then act surprised when said debate erupts. Feigned dismay over an entirely predictable and intended outcome is the laziest brand of dishonesty.

Distasteful (and wearisome) correlations to rape notwithstanding, there is nothing inherently wicked or "toxic" about disagreeing with statements or tone in a contentious thread. This is a public forum, not a soap box, not a blog, not a venting chamber. If people cannot stomach disagreement, they should not be sharing their opinions in a public space. If one desires a rapt audience or cheering squad, one is well advised to either garner a following through force of personality, or to choose friends selectively and jettison those with the temerity to question one's conclusions.

That does not mean that needless belligerence in responses is any more laudable than needless belligerence in OPs, simply that the latter often begets the former. That's not "victim blaming", that is the simple observation of cause and effect. No one is the "victim" of an argument that they started.

As Frappe has wisely pointed out, if people want more civil and collegial conversation they can foster it by behaving civilly and collegially...and not only with those who share their predilections. They can stop penning angry diatribes and bait threads, they can stop searching for the most volatile engagements to post in, they can stop combing threads looking for the one guy they disagree with so they can vomit forth a bilious reply. Those are all things people can stop doing if they genuinely want civil discussion and a reduction in forum "toxicity". I'm not sure any of the local cadre of drama addicts will ever do any such thing...for what should be fairly obvious reasons...but everyone grows out of a phase at some point. Maybe this could be that day! Anything's possible.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Nothing against The Escapist, that's just how the internet works.

If you're automatically sure that you know what reality is and who and what is
really important - if you want to operate on your default-setting - then
you, like me, will not consider possibilities that aren't pointless and
annoying. But if you've really learned how to think, how to pay attention,
then you will know you have other options. - David Foster Wallace

And then he killed himself :/

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Here's the thing though: I'm not the world's most frequent poster on this site, but I do spend a decent amount of time here, and I'm convinced that a good chunk of the people on this site WANT ultra controversial subjects having to do with (currently) ultra controversial subjects, like transgenderism, gamergate, trigger warnings, victim-blaming, rape culture, police violence, or take your pick of basically anything considered to be at the forefront of the current culture wars.

There was a brief period of time that I remember when news of ultra controversial subjects was pretty slow, and people were literally going out of their way to resurrect gamergate or transgender threads just to create some sort of thread that was going to generate heated discussion and be over 200 posts.

Obviously gaming and general nerd culture are pretty broad, but there are only so many "what type of RPG character do you play?" or "coolest FPS weapon?" threads one can make until we start to see the same answers over and over again. But you can guarantee that when you make a gamergate thread or an anti (or pro) Anita Sarkeesian thread that you're going to get hundreds of responses.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I think we should all investigate ourselves. I'll start by looking into my conduct, interviewing me, and determining that I am awesome. You should do the same.

We can all report back with our findings.

I have investigated myself and found that all my findings are confidential, but will support any and all assertions about myself that I make, even ones that contradict other ones.

OT: I'm not really sure how you can blame the replies that thread got as a sign of toxicity when that thread was poisoned from the get-go. People latched onto the last sentence of that OP specifically because that last sentence was the only thing of substance to latch on to. It was a petty gripe about Ms. Marvel winning an award as terrible sign of something horribly wrong with "our culture" with no actual reasoning given as to why it didn't deserve an award, let alone why something else deserved the award instead. The OP didn't even try to make an argument, didn't even try to foster a discussion, he just wanted to complain. As such, that particular thread turned out the only way it could, the only way the OP gave it to turn out, because people responded to the only thing he made the thread about.

okay I don't agree with the poster (saying Ms. Marvel won because of sjw is able bit arrogant and insulting to the people who liked it.) he did list he didn't like the writing and thought other books deserve to win and did the concept better.

Nothing against The Escapist, that's just how the internet works.

If you're automatically sure that you know what reality is and who and what is
really important - if you want to operate on your default-setting - then
you, like me, will not consider possibilities that aren't pointless and
annoying. But if you've really learned how to think, how to pay attention,
then you will know you have other options. - David Foster Wallace

And then he killed himself :/

well um...... I'm sad now.

here's a picture of a bunny wearing a school bag to cheer us all up

Spoiler: Mod edit: please put large images in spoilers.

edit maybe I should post more pictures of cute animals in controversial threads to cheer people up

 

[Charli]

No it isn't, you just getting too invested in a forum.

The Escapist is probably the least 'toxic' forum I post on. Forums by their very nature attract controversial topics and clashing opinions, be prepared for them to crop up at any time.

My advice is try to disconnect yourself a bit more from the forums, you'll be far happier. Hell look how long I've been around and add +1 year of lurking, no one knows who the fuck I am half the time! And so they should, I post my opinion, no more than 2 replies to an argumentative quote, and then I'm out again.

You think the escapist is bitchy, boy I could show you things. I saw a thread escalate to a point where everyone involved in it was banned. Quite remarkable.