The Escapist Community is a tad too toxic

[StormShaun]

Ah, nostalgia, one of the greatest things that calls us back to the past.
It makes everything in the past seem much better... When it really wasn't.

If you ask me?
Sure, we had a couple more shows that could be applied to my interests, but the core Escapist community is still here. The forums are still fine (as long as you don't go to the more... 'Controversial' threads within the R&P or Game Industry forums), most of the members are nice, and most importantly to me, the RP section is still good... And it has been for several years.

Of course, this is only me.
To anyone else, they could see this differently.

 

[jklinders]

The community here is rather toxic.

Certain people here seem to like to play rather passive aggressive games with the forum CoC that cause others to trip up and get wrathed.

I really would not rather get further into it than that.

It would be rather nice to see more discussion of a posts overall thrust than simply latching on to one fucking line and beating the shit out of it to score cheap debating points, but this is the internet and we can't have everything can we?

 

[And Man]

snip

I feel the thread you picked is a fairly poor example, because the 2015 Hugo awards have been rife with controversy regarding the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies, diversity and social justice issues, etc.

There was the fact it is a comic and not a book or short story in a more conventional sense.

It won the Hugo Award for Best Graphic Story

 

[Lufia Erim]

Seems more like the OP tried to sell a particular view and people didn't like that his reasons for his claims were flimsy. The solution is to maybe support your views better

That's kinda like victim blaming isn't it? It's the OPs fault for making reasons others don't agree with.

Now don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no problem with people calling out someone, hell i start to think people take pride in calling me out BUT at the very least do so after having answered the question at hand.

No. Think about it. He has to be a victim first. Being disagreed at doesn't make him a victim.

Well "like" being the keyword.

If "like" in your sentence makes the rest of your sentence nonsensical, then it is time to rework what you were trying to say.

You use the word like to compare two different thoughts. English 101. It's called a comparison.

 

[Don Incognito]

I've heard it said that a certain group who were rather opposed to GG being discussed here and not getting quite their own way may have chosen to deliberately started to aim to make the forums more hostile and toxic.

How true it is I don't know but I've seen a lot of accusations flying round from members of said group at just other users for disagreeing with them or even off hand jokes.

Fascinating!

See, I've heard something just a bit different, that people who are rather opposed to a certain group who were rather opposed to GG being discussed here have chosen to deliberately start to aim to make the forums more hostile and toxic.

Unfounded rumors and passive-aggressive accusations are fun!

 

[Godhead]

The toxicity here is no worse than it was when the Tropes vs Women kickstarter was still active 3 years ago.

 

[chocolate pickles]

It might have something to do with the fact that if you don't agree with the liberal approaches to the issue being discussed, you usually end up with 4 passive agressive paragraphs telling you your opinion is wrong.

Like, seriously. Barely any game discussion these days. Now to get a hot topic, just create a feminism/ethics thread and watch the posts roll in.

 

[Teoes]

I dunno - it's been looking a little cleaner lately. Maybe it's just me; maybe I'm confusing a lack of activity for not as shitty.

I've heard it said that a certain group who were rather opposed to GG being discussed here and not getting quite their own way may have chosen to deliberately started to aim to make the forums more hostile and toxic.

How true it is I don't know but I've seen a lot of accusations flying round from members of said group at just other users for disagreeing with them or even off hand jokes.

Fascinating!

See, I've heard something just a bit different, that people who are rather opposed to a certain group who were rather opposed to GG being discussed here have chosen to deliberately start to aim to make the forums more hostile and toxic.

Unfounded rumors and passive-aggressive accusations are fun!

MY side has had nothing to do with it. It's all YOUR side's fault! Oy vey.

 

[Josh123914]

What? Escapist is one of the huggiest hugboxes on the internet. Good luck finding a place that suits your needs, have you tried NeoGAF? They'll ban people for going against the hivemind/groupthink over there. Might suit you better if you can't handle discourse or people disagreeing with you.

It's not necessarily a hugbox, but those sort of things are able to form in this environment.

I mean I understand why you're not allowed to namecall here, but getting a warning for rightfully calling somebody out for lying or being wrong is something I seriously want changed.

I mean, I could make a thread about how (for example) VanQ hates bees. You can claim otherwise on this forum but I'm unhindered in and can continue by stating how you hate stripes and are allergic to honey.
You'd be right to call me a liar, but then you'll be the one warned (which for your opponent will be a mark of victory) for namecalling, and I am not.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Anyway, the community has certainly gotten more toxic over time, mostly due to a number of major events driving wedges and creating hostility in the community. People like to mention GamerGate, and that was certainly the latest and the worst, but the community has been going down this path for a while (see: the initial appearance of Anita, Retake Mass Effect, etc.)

Initially I pinned the first big schism on the Extra Credits fiasco. That was the first truly ugly incident involving the site I can remember since joining, and it left a number of folks incensed in some way (I was ambivalent, personally).

But I think you're more on point: The overblown ME3 outrage and appearance of "Her Holiness, Never Shalt Thou Criticize Her Work: Sarkeesian" were the first major big tipping points of this site's slide into the toxic shitter.

ME3 was...well, OK, EA/Bioware made some vague promises and didn't keep them. Yeah, the ending sucked rocks, but even today, I don't think it warranted the kind of outrage it received. The keystone moment of absurdity for that year, I think, is that after several solid months of bitching and whining, ME3 won Game of the Year on the Escapist, as voted by its own population.

I have no rational explanation for that beyond "Silent Majority trumps Vocal Minority" but even that's just a guess.

Sarkeesian...she was the first major warning sign of gaming becoming "political"; in air quotes because I mean the colloquial version of "political" rather than the literal one; the version that describes a process of infantile finger pointing more than a discussion of public organization/policy.

Her work created a schism, because despite "sounding" reasonable to some, it was ultimately dependent on "give-or-take" interpretation, rather than matter of fact. That isn't what the press' narrative surrounding her wanted everyone to believe, but that's the truth behind any work of criticism.

Speaking of narratives...where there is political schism, inevitably, there is the sociopath "Forum Thought Police": A breed of user whose agenda is to nitpick and "correct" others for seemingly no other reason than to toy with them.

I think there's a fundamental difference between responding to someone to disagree, and responding to satisfy some urge to "correct" what are otherwise personal interpretations. And when a subject of discussion involves heavy political ideology (like Sarkeesian's work) there's little room for anything BUT personal interpretation.

The telltale signs of the Thought Police:
-Alarmingly frequent usage of "misinterpret/misrepresent"
-A tendency to put words into the mouths of others, usually after omitting important parts of what they said
-Harping on minor errors or meaningless technicalities, and aggressively keeping the focus the other person and what they said rather than what they're actually trying to say (like they're being interrogated)
-Acts offended when you call them out or refuse to play their stupid mind games

Ah, nostalgia, one of the greatest things that calls us back to the past.
It makes everything in the past seem much better... When it really wasn't.

If you ask me?
Sure, we had a couple more shows that could be applied to my interests, but the core Escapist community is still here. The forums are still fine (as long as you don't go to the more... 'Controversial' threads within the R&P or Game Industry forums), most of the members are nice, and most importantly to me, the RP section is still good... And it has been for several years.

Of course, this is only me.
To anyone else, they could see this differently.

Aye, we tend to reinterpret things as we grow older.

My memory isn't flawless, but if there is one thing I can recall with certainly, it's a time where checking my inbox on this site didn't come with a sense of trepidation. When opening a message felt more like an invitation of further discussion and less like expecting to find a packaged turd on my doorstep.

I won't say that everything on this site is worse since I joined, but I do know the passive-aggressive nitpickery wasn't anywhere near as bad as it's been in the past 2-3 years.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Well then, imagine if the Game Industry Discussion forum didn't exist to soak up all that bile...

Who can say what caused it, but it's a sign of the times more than of the Escapist itself. We didn't used to have online lynch mobs simply because someone told a bad joke, but here we are. Obviously the whole Sarkeesian/Quinn whatever-the-hell-that-was got the snowball rolling over here.

 

[Andy Shandy]

You know what, you're probably right. I would say - as plenty others have though - that it isn't just The Escapist but most video games websites in general (it may be similar with other subjects, but I mainly browse video game sites). It doesn't excuse it, obviously, but it does explain it.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Suggesting that it won because 'diversity' seemed to be the main point. It's hardly like we have to pretend that certain people aren't always quick to claim that people do things for 'diversity' and complain about it.

I agree with the OP's statement that the forums are a bit too toxic, but for this reason. It seems almost anything can be turned into a debate about race (though I haven't seen this much, personally, for a bit), sexism or diversity at the drop of a hat. Not to mention the number of actual threads about those topics.

Well there definitely is toxicity. Just look at the bizarre response I got right beneath your post lol.

I just take issue with OP's attempt at an example and identification of the source. People disagreeing isn't toxic and that's all that happened in the OPs example

 

[Fappy]

Conflicts on this site used to be funny. When was the last time we had a quality troll? What happened to all the playful teasing?

We're apparently not allowed to have fun anymore

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

What attempts were made to be more inclusive?

How about the decision to allow GG threads to exist on the Escapist?

I imagined that wasn't an attempt at inclusivity so much as it not being against the rules and them not being willing to take the step to say they didn't want it.

Because of course if one personally doesn't like something one should ignore all the rules and become a dictator. Obviously a benevolent one since one knows better than all the uncivilized proles with different opinions. /s

Back on point, There's nothing in what you wrote there which stands up to evidence based scrutiny. I refer to the GJP leaks where we see Ben Kuchera, failed head of the PA Report and professional hack, leaning on Greg Tito, a high ranking employee of one of his competitors, to try and get him to swing in with the narrative that the professional bullies, charlatans and arseholes, who mostly made up the GJP mailing list, were spinning. If the staff were as close to banning GG from the forums as you imply then the level of peer pressure felt by employees like Mr Tito would easily have enabled them to justify banning it somehow, that it was not banned seems to suggest that the staff at this marvelous website were not close to banning it but the records do show that they and the moderation team here policed the topic heavily for any rule breakers so as to keep the topic under control.

These are not the practices of a website who was barely allowing something, they are the practices of a website who are not going to punish innocent forumgoers and consumers of it's content because of some lies printed by their competition.

Lol what the hell? Perfect example of the kind of attitude that really does make it toxic. I say GG wasn't against the rules and would take an extra step to keep out, trying to point out that it wasn't allowed out of inclusiveness but rather allowing it was the passive position and disallowing the active... but apparently for at least one GGer this isn't glowing enough praise so I get this bizarre rant at me for things I never said.

I didn't make any suggestions there. Though you seem to fail to understand how rules on the site work. If they wanted something gone they could just make new rules, which is hardly ignoring the rules. But I didn't suggest they should.

Evidence based scrutiny? Maybe you should start by seeing what I actually said. I never said they were on the verge of banning it. I didn't imply it either. I said they weren't willing to take the step to say they didn't want it to point out disallowing it is an extra step to exclude it as opposed to allowing it being an extra step of inclusion.

God, talk about being insanely sensitive over anyone not praising GG and making up shit I never suggested or implied. Here's a perfect example of toxicity.

 

[IceForce]

Some of the responses in this thread amuse me greatly. In particular the number of people saying that they lament how 'politicized' this forum has become.
Because only a few months ago, at the beginning of the year, there was a call from on-high to make this site more 'apolitical'. And people cheered and praised this decision.

Fast-forward to today, and The Escapist community is more politicized than ever. Apparently 'apolitical' wasn't something they were after afterall.

 

[Josh123914]

Conflicts on this site used to be funny. When was the last time we had a quality troll? What happened to all the playful teasing?

We're apparently not allowed to have fun anymore

Well there was Developous over on Role Playing, but I think trolls and severely autistic people just have larger outlets now.

1 troll can "trigger" thousands now. I hate to say it but by internet standards we as a site are just too mundane and dare I say it "normal" to be worth toying with, and if the site does get flak, its usually for tenuous political reasons and not for laughs.

We could make a Zeel appreciation group if you want though.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I read the OP. Then I read the second post.

Then I just wanted to scream: Get a little bit of self-awareness, please?!

I don't know how it was earlier, but some kind of really existing basement, which contains hostilities. And a strict policy of no talk of politics outside of GID and R&P could work wonders. At least this is what I know from other forums. Also, a lot of people should be more light-hearted. A joke is a joke, and taking offense should not really exist. Especially on the internet.

Should I try to emulate your example in the future and instead of directly disagreeing passive aggressively suggest you lack self awareness? At least I'm not sanctimoniously pretending to want less hostility while making comments about others like that.

Sorry for this, apparently extremely toxic post. It seems disagreement is toxic but I'm not gonna stop disagreeing just because some of you want to call all disagreement toxic

 

[madwarper]

Wow. Yeeah, because suffocating discussion would have been so much better.

You know? Thank you for proving my point.

The Escapist decided to be welcoming to GG discussions, rather than stifling. However, even that decision has added to the toxicity, evidenced by your needlessly sarcastic response and the obvious fact that you did not read all my posts in this thread.