The escapist, I need your help.

[Mr.Mattress]

(This coming from a "Christian Deist")

1 of 3 things happened:

1: Brainwashing, but not some complex form of it. Just the simple "Since everyone around me is doing it, I am pressured into doing it"; Something Hitler did in his early speeches. All you gotta do is wait for the stuff to get out of her system. If it's persistent, I'd call for an Intervention.

2: She really had a religious experience at that camp. If that's the case, nothing you can do will change her mind. Sorry, your stuck with a Religious Nut Job who's pretty much withdrawn.

3: This is all a sick joke she's doing just to keep her parents happy but she's worried about getting caught. If that's the case, look for subtle signs that signal this as a joke. Then confront her on it.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

If she's being cold and looking down on other people, it isn't a good change for her, in my opinion. I'm not religious; I think that I can make my own decisions about being a good person. I don't need a pastor to tell me what's right and what's wrong, and while I believe that God could exist, I don't feel I need him in my life. Being a Christian would just enrage me. However, for some people, religion can help guide them through all the troubles of life. My priorities are different than some people's. Personally, I have this one as a first:

1. Be good to other the other things on Earth. I don't give a shit who made them: they're other living things and you should be good to them.

I think that a truly positive religion would enforce kindness. Look at all those people saying, "Oh yeah, the Buddhist monk who has devoted his entire life to practicing kindness and bringing about peace - he deserves eternal torture because he didn't revert from the faith he was raised in to worship my god." Bullshit. If that's what God thinks, I'm not going to be his servant. People who constantly act 'holier than thou' are missing the point somewhat, in my opinion.

If she is treating others poorly, that does not mean that the change to Christianity was bad. Rather, she needs to realize that being a Christian isn't about acting better than those who are not, and also to realize that everyone deserves to be treated well.

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Off topic somewhat: Mad World, your name made me drop what I was doing and go listen to that Tears for Fears song immediately. No joke, it did. I like that song...

Serious question here, but if you die as a baby, what happens? Do you burn in hell forever because you never accepted Jesus? That seems, unfair. And why does God need love, anyway? Also, would the baby grow up? Or would it forever be a baby?

I normally listen to Metal, but Mad World is an amazing song. The Tears for Fears one has more meaning, but the Gary Jules one is a better song overall.
I know... it's an awesome song. Personally, my favourite is Gary Jules' version, but Tears for Fears' is excellent, too.

 

[superbatranger]

One of two things could have happened. She actually converted free will and all, or she was brainwashed.

 

[Mad World]

So...you're being punished for something that no-one can ever change, and will be punished for that eternally without any chance of setting things straight? What's the point of even punishing them then? May as well just 'destroy' their soul or whatever and be done with it.

No - we need to be punished; simply destroying us completely is not enough. Those who deny the Lord deserve permanent torment.

I know that it sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

a person with the name "Mad World" is defending religion.


WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED, PEOPLE!?

and yes, I payed attention to your defense. your "defense" is HORRIBLY flawed.

My name has nothing to do with it; if I can recall correctly, I chose my name from the song "Mad World." Also, it sounds cool.

Anyway, how is it "horribly flawed"?

So how is it not petty or sadistic?

I get that the reasoning may be beyond our comprehension or whatever, but in your eyes, does that not seem slightly petty or sadistic to you?

Like say if we take it to the human level: You get a letter in the post saying to paint a yellow smily face on your door in the next 3 days. You don't do it and then are kidnapped, plugged into a machine that ensures you will never die and tortured without reprieve. Billions of years pass, and all you know is that it's but a flicker compared to the amount of time you'll need to endure yet.

You could say that they was clearly warned to paint a face on the door. But that's kinda ignoring the elephant in the room here.

It's not petty or sadistic because it is God's Will, and He is perfect. As I've said, those who deny God must be punished.

I used to think to myself, "Is that really fair?" But I know that God would never do anything unjust.

Humans beings don't have the right to decide who deserves to endure torture for all eternity; only God does. So I would consider that hypothetical situation to be unfair.

I didn't say in every way, but if god gives us our morality code then it must be based on his own sense of morality.

Like God, we share good morals, but because of the original sin, we also possess desires for evil. That is because of what we did.

God is perfect, but we are not; therefore, some people do not accept God's Will as fair or good.

I don't particularly want to put words in God's mouth. I personally would have had mercy on the theoretical Buddhist if I were God, so long as he hadn't publicly rejected and attacked Christianity, but who knows what God truly thinks?

You don't need to put words in God's mouth; He has clearly stated that those who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour will perish (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

God will not permit non-believers into Heaven.

Serious question here, but if you die as a baby, what happens? Do you burn in hell forever because you never accepted Jesus? That seems, unfair. And why does God need love, anyway? Also, would the baby grow up? Or would it forever be a baby?

I normally listen to Metal, but Mad World is an amazing song. The Tears for Fears one has more meaning, but the Gary Jules one is a better song overall.

Romans 10:14 states: "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?"

This specific verse - I think - not only applies to people who have never heard of Christ; it also applies to babies. As for kids very young: there is no way to be sure, but as stated in Genesis 18:25, "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" We can rely on God to always make the right choice, so we have no need to worry.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

To put it bluntly, judging by the manner in which your friend types it appears as though she isn't the sharpest spoon in the drawer. Such people are often easily manipulated, and religion has brainwashing the dull down to a science.

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

the GROUP part of it, it feels so... Cultish. not to mention how the people feel soulless and unhappy.No one who has ever defended it ever given a proper argument for it. It feels empty, and support of it gives an impression of utter insanity.

Wow, really? There must be some pathetic Christians in your area, mate. I don't know a single Christian who feels "soul-less and unhappy" because of their faith, in fact quite the opposite. Now, that being said, there are bad Christians, just like there are bad everything else. But we aren't all just some cult. For instance, I don't even go to my church's youth group, not because it's a cult, but because I find my faith to be a personal issue that I like to handle outside of groups. There are some people who treat it like a cult, but the same can be said about, well, anything. Take main-stream science, for instance: How often do you see dissenting opinions accepted there? Someone even whispers "young earth creationist" and everyone flies off the handle. Why is that? There is too much hate for it just to be "I don't agree with the idea". Just something to think about.

I think you've spent too much time around the so-called "super-Christians", people who take everything to an incredible extreme and freak out at the slightest supposed offense. Those people? They aren't Christians. They are just douche-bags masquerading under a religion, and they exist everywhere.

Im refering my Impression of them. I make decisions off logic, but religion is a matter of spirituality, and the vibe I get is... I can read peoples expression very easily, and quite frankly, the people in the churches ive been to were wearng fake smiles. and no, Im not refering to the ones who brainwash their kids, even the light hearted semi-religous ones seem saddened by themselves. It disturbs me, greatly. I've had thirteen years to think about it, and thats the conlusion Ive come to.

 

[LogicNProportion]

It's known that those camps are no good...

But, I find most beliefs, especially those pertaining religion to be healthy. Give it time, she should eventually ween herself off the original rush after she sees some crushing real life.

xD

But seriously, just give it time.

 

[Railgun88]

Get a group of people together for any amount of time and with the right manipulation you can turn anyone to pretty much anything.

I'm not sure how to best answer you without making negative comments about certain aspects of the Christian community but it sounds an awful lot like brainwashing. I'm sure you can find the documentaries online where they visit these camps and I was truely sickened. My personal feelings for Christianity aside, just the methods employed shocked me and I couldn't believe anyone could target children in such a manner.

Ultimately, if she is happy, or she believes she is happy then there is little you can do to change that. If anything, trying to get in the way will simply make her cut ties with you. You or your friends cannot reverse the conditioning which occured during that week. That may sound harsh but incredibly clever conditioning is exactly what it is.

I should point out this doesn't happen will all christians, just certain groups and it sounds like that is the kind of place she went to.

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

If you think you can undo the kind of shit seen above, then good luck to you.

I'm not afraid of terrorists, serial killers, cannibals, or eldritch monstrosities. But that scared the fuck out of me.

You too? This is the scariest thing I've ever seen. And I have seen my friend have to shoot someone. But this by far, is much worse.

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

*SUPER SNIP*

I was joking, though really I don't care how good it is, if you want to seem sane thats an ironic title.

and its flawed in that your arguments are more or less just religious preaching, eith every single blatantly obvious logic flaw involved.

 

[Naheal]

*Snipped for length*

I've found that this is common for folks who have recently converted to Christianity. Someone made a convincing argument, that's all. Give it time, it'll pass.

 

[Sacman]

I've gone to church every Sunday since I was born and it has only made me less religious...

 

[Legend of J]

This reminds me exactly of an episode of a tv program i watched same word by word then they formed a religous cult in the youth.....hmm.

 

[Mad World]

I was joking, though really I don't care how good it is, if you want to seem sane thats an ironic title.

and its flawed in that your arguments are more or less just religious preaching, eith every single blatantly obvious logic flaw involved.

I thought that you probably were. Anyway, people should be able to get past the name - and it shouldn't even be an issue to begin with.

I'm defending my views, and if people don't agree, so be it; but that won't stop me from defending them. Anyway, I don't consider it to be flawed.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I'd call the police, man. Brainwashing is not ok (unless I'm the one doing it).

 

[Super Toast]

Just ask her what went on in that camp.

 

[StrangerQ]

How i see your situation.

Like many others i see that either she really had personal experience that had drastic effect on her personality or the infamous brainwash...

However If you find out that experience is true... support her because from my experience if you have faith it is something to respect.


this is small story how i lost faith so skip if you are not interested about my personal experience

Spoiler

Ironic is that back when i was younger
i was part of my local boy scout group (take notice that here in Finland thx to Luther religion is not main thing even in scout group who tho include some prayer etc in meeting). I had really big problems with my temper (example attacking my fellow scouts jumping to their throats if they happened to piss me off) and my group leader often suggested to prey for better feel and get strength to keep my cool...
However this did not work and i was aggressive and sad inside... at one of camps i simply lost my faith... i was religious and some what liked going to church but when you are told that preyer helps and it just doesent even when you have full faith it just kills bit of you inside and changes you. tho i was later able to get my temper undercontroll by medical treatmen i allways carry this empty bit that used to have faith

That is just my story but back to your friend.
Intervene and by speaking with subtle leading towards why so big change is best way...
I'd be seriously worried if she "cant remeber why"


Edit: Oh just remembered... religion is not all bad for example there is part if bible that i pretty much use as daily philosophy

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven ~
2 A time to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted.
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to tear down, and a time to build up.
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5 A time to throw stones, and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, and a time to shun embracing.
6 A time to search, and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep, and a time to throw away.
7 A time to tear apart, and a time to sew together; A time to be silent, and a time to speak.
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; A time for war, and a time for peace.

 

[Tfirmin002]

@urgh76

XD omg i've never laughed so much at an article in my life... "kids will meditate on pokemon when there older!"