The Escapist - One opinion

[Gerazzi]

@Conqueror Kenny: Everyone has the right to have their voice heard. Trolls are the only ones who should be banned because they aren't trying to have their voice heard, they are just trying to create an issue.

@Calobi: I understand why you would say that, but if the user isn't causing trouble and just there to talk, instead of unashamedly trolling over and over, then they should be given a second chance. I don't think it's fair to assume that the mod's judgment is final and holy in comparison to the person committing the "crime" so to speak.

@others who have had no problems with the mods: Simply because you haven't had any problems with the mods, does not mean that no one has had problems with the mods. I find it narrow-minded to think that that generalization applies to everyone.

2) Don't ban users for having opinions

I don't think they do.
I'm a Fascist and have a Fascist usergroup, if they were banning people for their opinions I would have been gone ages ago.

I was saying that some people have been banned in the past for giving bad reviews of some of the escapist's original series.

 

[Kogarian]

I agree. The death spirals of the conversations also ruined this site for me. I get on a year later, and what's that? Someone's asking which song they want played at their funeral? And everyone thinks their proper spelling and grammar make up for their unoriginal topics? Like I didn't see that when I started lurking (before Yahtzee was hired on).

 

[Pimppeter2]

The reason you see people with high post counts being banned is because they have extensive histories of breaking our TOU. What appears to be a minor infraction to you may actually be a minor infraction that shows months if not years of failing to understand, respect or abide by the rules of our forums. If you (generic) cannot learn, then we do not want you as part of our community. It is as simple as that.

This is the only true problem I have with the rules of the community. I'd like to make a disclaimer first talking about how great the mods have been to me, personally, as John Funk here knows. The mods have given me a lot of second chances, and have listened to me if I feel a bit unjustly punished. I've had 2 bans, and 2 probations taken away. So yeah, the mods have been very nice to me.

That being said, the problem is that we don't know how post history works. Most recently the whole Cheeze Pavilion/Hope Chest scenario. Simply put, we have no idea how thin the ice is.

For example, if a mod where to come past a suspension worthy offense, and they took a gander at my post history to see if it was ban worthy, would they see that my last offense (Before the low content one like a month ago) was almost 5 months ago or something? Or would they simply see all my offenses regardless of severity or date?

Now, lets make up a user and call him Fred. Fred has been on the site for 6 months and has racked up 5 3 day probations for low content posts, a 1 day suspension for a sexist joke, and another 1 day probation for linking his blog or whatever they call them nowadays. Fred is caught with a semi-malicious post and is put on 14 day suspension to seriously think about his time here. Does the mod take into account the reason for the prior offenses? Is it quantity of the offenses or the severity of them that comes into play.

Personally, I think we as a community need to know how ban history works, so that people can fully understand mods decisions. That's my 2 cents.

In other news, I think that posting "TL;DR" (Too long;Didn't read) in a long forum article or review should be a bannable offense. But I may stand alone on that one.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

2) Don't ban users for having opinions -
Because something is controversial, or because someone is sort of a dick, does not mean that you have the right to ban them. When their posts become non-productive, random, illogical, or you have the distinct suspicion that they may be trollin', then you have the right to ban them. Not for saying that "Rebbecca Mayes Muses sucks because of these reasons:", not for insulting Yahtzee. For posting "FIRST".

I was going to be kind of with you, until I read this.

This site is a privately owned and maintained business, not the damn US congress. They can ban anyone at any time for any reason, up to and including "because".

 

[DuplicateValue]

It annoys me that you haven't received any mod action for this yet.
It just seems inconsistent.

I mean, I got a 3 day probation for implying that another user was arrogant, whereas you have directly called the mods "imbeciles" and gotten away with it.
And one of them actually saw it and posted a reply, so I can't put it down to ignorance.

 

[Gerazzi]

It annoys me that you haven't received any mod action for this yet.
It just seems inconsistent.

I mean, I got a 3 day probation for implying that another user was arrogant, whereas you have directly called the mods "imbeciles" and gotten away with it.
And one of them actually saw it and posted a reply, so I can't put it down to ignorance.

If they ban me, then my message will be complete, and then there is a chance of a user outcry.

2) Don't ban users for having opinions -
Because something is controversial, or because someone is sort of a dick, does not mean that you have the right to ban them. When their posts become non-productive, random, illogical, or you have the distinct suspicion that they may be trollin', then you have the right to ban them. Not for saying that "Rebbecca Mayes Muses sucks because of these reasons:", not for insulting Yahtzee. For posting "FIRST".

I was going to be kind of with you, until I read this.

This site is a privately owned and maintained business, not the damn US congress. They can ban anyone at any time for any reason, up to and including "because".

It's not whether or not they can, it's whether or not they should.


EDIT:

I didn't c u thar pimppeter. But yeah, I saw first hand how nice the mods have been with you, but that just adds to my case. There is literally no consistency with the mod's actions. You said it yourself. Now is that fair?

 

[manaman]

If I get censored fighting for the freedom to speak, so be it.

Why in the world would you think you have freedom of speech on what amounts to private property? These forums are wholly owned and run by the Escapist. You agree to abide by their rules when you became a member of these forums. In other words don't like it, tough shit. You aren't shackled to a desk and forced to post, you are free to find a forum that fits you elsewhere at any time.

Suppose I kick you out of my house for insulting someone/something I care about, are you going to stand there in front of me on my property and argue that your freedom of speech is being violated?

Now on about your points:

1) Don't ban users for jokes, don't ban them for saying the word "cock" -

I wish they would ban more people for stupid offensive jokes. Not a permaban mind you, unless the poster can't figure out after a couple of warnings what is and is not accepted content. They are not in fitting with the community, and the image they project. They are annoying, juvenile, and worse still when a thread devolves to that point discussion is basically gone. But they are amiable you want to make jokes like that you are free to go to the groups and make all the jokes you want provided it is in keeping with the discussion and the allowed content in that group.

2) Don't ban users for having opinions -

Here you are free to have whatever opinion you want to unless you start directly insulting others. Racist and sexist comments are directed insults. Other then that well I can say the moon is a much more happy place the Saturn all day, and nobody cares.

3) Don't ban users for not liking you -

Got some examples? I don't.

4) Don't ban users for getting drunk on power and posting something stupid -

This is basically a rehash of your other points. If a member consistently shows they are unable to control themselves after warnings then they are no longer a welcome member of the community.

5) Only ban trolls -

What is a troll? It's sometimes up in the air. Someone who simply hates something and is expressing their opinion you think so highly of, could come across as a troll. Funny that you should trust the mods to use their own discretion when deciding what is and is not a troll, but you question them in every other capacity.

6) Use probation for most offenses -

Why change a system that seems to work? Like it or not the world doesn't end when you get banned from this site, and if you really made any friends here then you can talk to through any number of other communication services.

7) Only re-ban duplicate accounts if the user is being a dick still -

You can actually make additional accounts, that is not strictly against the rules. What is against the rules is ban dodging.

8) Someone should be told what their charges are -

There are no "charges" mods have discretion, mods decide punishment. That's it, no due process. The end.


Do I explicitly trust the mods in every regard? No not really. The mods are people and just like people they can read a comment in a foul mood and decide it was inflammatory when it was intended as a joke, but you can appeal to the mods any time action is taken against you. I know that without the mods this community would not be a place I would post to. Just look at /b/ if you want to see how people would behave without the rules.

In other news, I think that posting "TL;DR" (Too long;Didn't read) in a long forum article or review should be a bannable offense. But I may stand alone on that one.

I really, really agree with this, and I have never had it used on me. The forums are for discussing things. You don't want to discus the topic at hand then why even bother posting?

 

[Gerazzi]

@Manaman: You have defended your points wonderfully.

In regards to three, I'm going on the rule that it says not to insult the mods.


I believe that we should be more focused on giving people a second chance, because then they have a chance to be a better person and contribute more to the community instead of banning them and forgetting they ever existed.

If someone did something wrong then they have to know what, exactly, they did in order to make themselves better. I didn't mean to say that they should know what their charges are, in order for them to debunk the charges, but rather so that they know never to do that again.

I also didn't intend the implication that there should be no rules. What I am saying is that the mods, like the users, should have rules that prohibit them from ban-hammering over small offenses if their day is going bad.

While it may be true that it may be efficient, there is no reason for there to be a no-second-chance system.

Also, I usually define trolls as those who rely on, rather than specific examples to support their opinion, instead result to flaming others.

 

[manaman]

In regards to three, I'm going on the rule that it says not to insult the mods.


I believe that we should be more focused on giving people a second chance, because then they have a chance to be a better person and contribute more to the community instead of banning them and forgetting they ever existed.

If someone did something wrong then they have to know what, exactly, they did in order to make themselves better. I didn't mean to say that they should know what their charges are, in order for them to debunk the charges, but rather so that they know never to do that again.

I also didn't intend the implication that there should be no rules. What I am saying is that the mods, like the users, should have rules that prohibit them from ban-hammering over small offenses if their day is going bad.

While it may be true that it may be efficient, there is no reason for there to be a no-second-chance system.

Not having had mod action myself this is second hand information, but as I understand it they do send you a message with the action you received and a bit of information on why you got the action. They also give what basically amounts to a warning for minor offenses or posts that might be taken as offensive. A permaban is the end all punishment, all other forms of punishment, especially the probation, are giving the user a second chance, and aside from obvious bot's, spammers, and those that create accounts to get past previous bans, I have never seen the mods permaban for a first offense.

As far as not insulting the mods goes, well you are not supposed to be insulting anyone in the first place, to make the punishment more harsh is a bit power trippy, but it's never a good idea to break the rules and direct that rule breaking at an enforcer of the rules.

 

[Gerazzi]

As far as not insulting the mods goes, well you are not supposed to be insulting anyone in the first place, to make the punishment more harsh is a bit power trippy, but it's never a good idea to break the rules and direct that rule breaking at an enforcer of the rules.

That's it right there. All people of the forums should be treated equally.
An insult to a mod should be treated the same way as an insult to a regular user.

Also, I guess it's kind of wrong for me to say that the mods go around banhammering whoever they don't like. I should say that they ban people who had minor offenses before, and then a major offense.

They can basically pick and choose who they like and who they don't.

I mean, we're all human. We've all made mistakes.

 

[DuplicateValue]

Huh, I forgot about this thread.

If they ban me, then my message will be complete, and then there is a chance of a user outcry.

Aww, that's cute. No, nobody will cry out at your loss. You're just one user out of thousands. Very few people will even remember you. Same goes for me and anyone else you care to pick out of the crowd.
As I've said before, plenty of people have tried this and got banned. The mods have left you be for some reason.
This thread doesn't even bump any more. Now stop being silly.

 

[Gerazzi]

Huh, I forgot about this thread.

If they ban me, then my message will be complete, and then there is a chance of a user outcry.

Aww, that's cute. No, nobody will cry out at your loss. You're just one user out of thousands. Very few people will even remember you. Same goes for me and anyone else you care to pick out of the crowd.
As I've said before, plenty of people have tried this and got banned. The mods have left you be for some reason.
This thread doesn't even bump any more. Now stop being silly.

So... You're going to bump this thread now that it's been dead for a while..?
I also didn't say there would be a user outcry, I said there was a chance of user outcry.

Are you just trying to make me flame you?