Same here, that part, especially when Raiden and his sister are talking really got me.mannaroth said:
The Escapist Presents: The Escapist On: Storytelling
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I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Braid yet. That game certainly gave me a few pangs in the heart.
Lately I've gotten addicted to the TV series Chuck, and have been thinking what it is about the show that engages me so, and how I identify with Chuck always seems to be the most effective element. Yes, I have done computer repair in retail (Circuit City Firedog, we fixed Geek Squad's work
), but that romantic hook between Chuck and Sarah is what keeps me coming back. As spies, they're put in extraordinary circumstances, but that stuff is all just context for the core suspense of the series, which is how they approach all the various combinations of problems that you can have in a relationship and how they work through it. You don't need to be a CIA agent to identify with that.
Braid seems to do this a bit more deliberately, but in a sort of interactive way. Each of the storybooks, and even the strange atomic epilogue seem to capture the pain of lost relationships and growing up. We can't rewind time, but we sure as hell can understand why this guy would want to. The plot isn't even that clear or delivered in a forcibly linear way, but it still manages to hook people.
I think this is why many discussions of story in games always end up talking about JRPGS. Note: I admit that I haven't played many JRPGs outside the typical Final Fantasy titles, Chrono Trigger, and a little bit of Baten Kaitos, but surely I'm not the exception when I say that by the time I got around to playing Final Fantasy 7 & 8 and similar titles I was entering my teen years. These two games are full of all the things that a young male teenager can easily identify with, albeit set in an extraordinary context. People swoon for Tifa from FF7, because she's the childhood friend who grows up to be beautiful and ends up with a bigger, stronger guy than you. Squall from FF8 is a mess of insecurity who seems to have issues in effectively communicating himself in social situations. These are fairly common speedbumps you encounter growing up, and the fact that someone took the time to talk about it makes you feel better about your own particular experiences. Most JRPG developers seem to understand this and create stories to suit their audience.
To get off of the JRPG kick, and to recognize that identification is an element that can be crafted in more ways than one, I want to look at CoD: Modern Warfare 1 & 2. The first game put you in the shoes of a new recruit. You got razzed by your superiors, and found yourself in ridiculous situations such as a sinking ship and a suspenseful sniping mission (yes, different character, but he was in the same situation: still relatively green in comparison to the guy he was working with).
Personally, I'm really not that great at FPS games. I'm usually the guy making dumb mistakes like shooting your friends on Left 4 Dead or stubbornly taking the same route despite getting sniped there every time. CoD 4 seemed to pull me out of the dirt and show me the ropes, culminating in an epic showdown that tested my ability to do everything I'd learned prior in the game. I felt a connection between Soap and myself, we were both sort of thrown into a new environment and grew from it.
Modern Warfare 2, in contrast, seemed to have not only a more difficult campaign than CoD 4, but also seemed to not care about the player as much. Forgive me if I'm missing something (eventually I just got sick of the mission and started playing only multiplayer), but the only mission with remotely interesting plot is the airport massacre, and frankly I can't really identify with being forced to murder hundreds of people to keep a cover. It was an interesting maneuver to play with the fact that you're working in an interactive medium, but in order to get the impact of that moment I feel the campaign's plot was severely lacking in the identification department.
TL;DR: I'll be emotionally moved by any game that's all about me.
Lately I've gotten addicted to the TV series Chuck, and have been thinking what it is about the show that engages me so, and how I identify with Chuck always seems to be the most effective element. Yes, I have done computer repair in retail (Circuit City Firedog, we fixed Geek Squad's work
), but that romantic hook between Chuck and Sarah is what keeps me coming back. As spies, they're put in extraordinary circumstances, but that stuff is all just context for the core suspense of the series, which is how they approach all the various combinations of problems that you can have in a relationship and how they work through it. You don't need to be a CIA agent to identify with that.Braid seems to do this a bit more deliberately, but in a sort of interactive way. Each of the storybooks, and even the strange atomic epilogue seem to capture the pain of lost relationships and growing up. We can't rewind time, but we sure as hell can understand why this guy would want to. The plot isn't even that clear or delivered in a forcibly linear way, but it still manages to hook people.
I think this is why many discussions of story in games always end up talking about JRPGS. Note: I admit that I haven't played many JRPGs outside the typical Final Fantasy titles, Chrono Trigger, and a little bit of Baten Kaitos, but surely I'm not the exception when I say that by the time I got around to playing Final Fantasy 7 & 8 and similar titles I was entering my teen years. These two games are full of all the things that a young male teenager can easily identify with, albeit set in an extraordinary context. People swoon for Tifa from FF7, because she's the childhood friend who grows up to be beautiful and ends up with a bigger, stronger guy than you. Squall from FF8 is a mess of insecurity who seems to have issues in effectively communicating himself in social situations. These are fairly common speedbumps you encounter growing up, and the fact that someone took the time to talk about it makes you feel better about your own particular experiences. Most JRPG developers seem to understand this and create stories to suit their audience.
To get off of the JRPG kick, and to recognize that identification is an element that can be crafted in more ways than one, I want to look at CoD: Modern Warfare 1 & 2. The first game put you in the shoes of a new recruit. You got razzed by your superiors, and found yourself in ridiculous situations such as a sinking ship and a suspenseful sniping mission (yes, different character, but he was in the same situation: still relatively green in comparison to the guy he was working with).
Personally, I'm really not that great at FPS games. I'm usually the guy making dumb mistakes like shooting your friends on Left 4 Dead or stubbornly taking the same route despite getting sniped there every time. CoD 4 seemed to pull me out of the dirt and show me the ropes, culminating in an epic showdown that tested my ability to do everything I'd learned prior in the game. I felt a connection between Soap and myself, we were both sort of thrown into a new environment and grew from it.
Modern Warfare 2, in contrast, seemed to have not only a more difficult campaign than CoD 4, but also seemed to not care about the player as much. Forgive me if I'm missing something (eventually I just got sick of the mission and started playing only multiplayer), but the only mission with remotely interesting plot is the airport massacre, and frankly I can't really identify with being forced to murder hundreds of people to keep a cover. It was an interesting maneuver to play with the fact that you're working in an interactive medium, but in order to get the impact of that moment I feel the campaign's plot was severely lacking in the identification department.
TL;DR: I'll be emotionally moved by any game that's all about me.
I agree with you on CoD 4 (haven't played Half-Life so I can't judge). While the story of CoD 4 itself wasn't all that bad, I found it's approach to storytelling to be rather lousy. I found the cutscenes at the start of each level really disengaging and left me uninvolved and prevented me from getting immersed into the game. I never liked Griggs simply because I found him to be too much of a stereotype. I considered Gaz and Price to be really cool, but that was because of the preconcieved belief I had that the British SAS are really cool, whichis also why I enjoyed playing as one. Likewise, I found the idea of being an American quite boring, so I didn't particularly enjoy playing as a US Marine. And despite Gaz and Price being cool, they're still underused characters. Sure, we get an idea of Price being a no nonsense and often mean type of guy, but his character hardly makes the impact it should on the story considering his role and Gaz has so little dialogue that he's practically one of the randomly generated named soldiers you fight alongside throughout the game.Onyx Oblivion said:
Ehm... Well... I don't understand how I didn't see this coming. I shoulda put a link or something. The name just sounds so incredibly random. He isn't that famous.Susan Arendt said:
Metal Gear Awesome [http://www.youtube.com/user/egoraptor?blend=1&ob=4] is the most famous one. Almost all his cartoons have 'awesome' in the title. They are quite funny, to be honest.
Anyways, I saw an interview [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ3vJsTJ898] of him, where he talked a bit about story telling and/or cutscenes. Watch at about 4:00 to 6:00 or something.
Cheers Susan!
[sub]Nincompoop is proud that an editor has spoken to him[/sub]
Alot of games have had me interested due to their story and atmosphere. Such as for example Knights of the Old Republic, and most other Bioware games. The Half Life series truly sets the standard for a simple, yet highly atmospheric and quality First Person Shooter experience.
Apart from that there hasn't been much else. Though there has been two games so far that has had me emotionally involved to a deep level. I didn't cry, but was still very touched by Starbreeze Studios' The Darkness and the latest Bioware installment Dragon Age.
Apart from that there hasn't been much else. Though there has been two games so far that has had me emotionally involved to a deep level. I didn't cry, but was still very touched by Starbreeze Studios' The Darkness and the latest Bioware installment Dragon Age.
Strangely, one of the most emotional games for me is one which doesn't really have any characters - Homeworld 2.
Maybe it's just because I'm a sucker for space opera, but I thought it one of the most epic and moving stories I've seen in a game, and the cutscenes and music [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0vPMjBdLws&feature=related] turned the impact up to the max.
The first time I played the last mission against the Planet Killers, I didn't really know what to do and even though I won, 98% of the population of Higara ended dying. I felt so terrible about it that I couldn't watch the ending video, I had to go back to redo the mission and not let even a single person die, which made the ending movie [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlz_HW6k5bI&feature=related] all the more moving.
I can't remember if I cried, but it I did, it was from the sheer epicness of it.
Maybe it's just because I'm a sucker for space opera, but I thought it one of the most epic and moving stories I've seen in a game, and the cutscenes and music [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0vPMjBdLws&feature=related] turned the impact up to the max.
The first time I played the last mission against the Planet Killers, I didn't really know what to do and even though I won, 98% of the population of Higara ended dying. I felt so terrible about it that I couldn't watch the ending video, I had to go back to redo the mission and not let even a single person die, which made the ending movie [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlz_HW6k5bI&feature=related] all the more moving.
I can't remember if I cried, but it I did, it was from the sheer epicness of it.
Here's a game I almost completely forgot about... R-Type Command for PSP! I totally shed a tear for the ending cutscene even though the story leading up to that point was ridiculously improbable.
The fleet of humans-who-were-assimilated-by-the-enemy-but-don't-realize-it that you've been controlling for the second campaign finally come home only to realize they've become the enemy. The fleet turns around and begins to leave peacefully only to be attacked from behind by reinforcements for the human armada they just blew through. The music and the carriers struggling to return to space as they're being wiped out by enemy gunfire really pulls on the heartstrings.
The way I see it as opposed to other forms of media story is only an element of a video game an element which can add to game but can easily be overlooked if the gameplay is enjoyable.
A movie with great actors who all played their roles well and were convincing won't save the movie if the story is bad. And a book with a bad story is just a bad book.
When it comes how a game tells a story I think video games have a huge advantage to other media, because only in video game can you give your audience the option to search out the story of the game instead of just displaying it before them.
A recent example of that approach would be Demon's Souls the majority of that games actual story is from dialogue with npcs and in the descriptions of unique items, and levels themselves.
Other examples of this are, Elder Scroll series with it's books, also both Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect with an in game codex.
But I do think there is a point where story does get in the way gameplay. During Uncharted 2 in the train scene where you have to the kill boss, I shot him with over 100 bullets from a M4 and he didn't die. Then I tried it again but this time ran right into melee combat and two melee sequences later he dropped dead.
That left me so upset that from then on all I could do was see the faults in the game. Like how Drake is supposedly a non-violent mass murder or how he had numerous chances to kill the primary villain but you couldn't because it was during a cutscene.
Assassin Creed 2 suffers the same problem too but not as bad. In the assassin tombs there are times when they take away the ability to use your throwing knives for the whole time you're in the tomb. Why? Because they (the developers) don't want you to kill the agile guard that they want to make you chase until you get to a guard room where there are five more guards that you now have to kill. Scripted in events and story like these are boring for me caused me to have a great dislike of Uncharted 2 which in my opinion doesn't have the gameplay to make up for it.
A movie with great actors who all played their roles well and were convincing won't save the movie if the story is bad. And a book with a bad story is just a bad book.
When it comes how a game tells a story I think video games have a huge advantage to other media, because only in video game can you give your audience the option to search out the story of the game instead of just displaying it before them.
A recent example of that approach would be Demon's Souls the majority of that games actual story is from dialogue with npcs and in the descriptions of unique items, and levels themselves.
Other examples of this are, Elder Scroll series with it's books, also both Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect with an in game codex.
But I do think there is a point where story does get in the way gameplay. During Uncharted 2 in the train scene where you have to the kill boss, I shot him with over 100 bullets from a M4 and he didn't die. Then I tried it again but this time ran right into melee combat and two melee sequences later he dropped dead.
That left me so upset that from then on all I could do was see the faults in the game. Like how Drake is supposedly a non-violent mass murder or how he had numerous chances to kill the primary villain but you couldn't because it was during a cutscene.
Assassin Creed 2 suffers the same problem too but not as bad. In the assassin tombs there are times when they take away the ability to use your throwing knives for the whole time you're in the tomb. Why? Because they (the developers) don't want you to kill the agile guard that they want to make you chase until you get to a guard room where there are five more guards that you now have to kill. Scripted in events and story like these are boring for me caused me to have a great dislike of Uncharted 2 which in my opinion doesn't have the gameplay to make up for it.
I'm the fourth person to repeat this, but MGS 2 is definitely the closest I've come to crying in a video game - I've always been in love with that game's story, and it was my favourite out of the entire series. Another game that moved me was Silent Hill 2, particularly if you get the "sadder" endings of the game - I've never played a game where I've felt so connected on an emotional level to a character; it's hard to pin-point exactly how the game developers managed to do that, but in certain parts of the game it was as if I was sharing James' pain with him. Overall, a fantastic video - it's nice to see such an eloquent examination of the more complex aspects of video games.
I have cried. I admit.
It was on Earth. Me and god knows how many others were holding the Wormhole, I can't dare to imagine how many there were total on the 7 shards of that map. We saw the last bane fall and the final bits of fireworks went off. Me and my squad lined up for a screenshot and in the chatbox I saw the GM. "10....9.....8" We all said as many of our byes as we could. The chatbox was filled with last second pleas to not do it.
"1"
And the servers for Tabula Rasa were cut.
I know a lot of people don't hold the game at high stakes. But I loved it. Not because it had awesome gameplay. Not because the maps were all imaginative, and felt alive. But the community. TR had the most grown up community I've seen. The community in the closed and open Beta of Fallen Earth comes as a close second, but the people in TR were the best. Even people who you just met at the entrance of an instance. "Hey, wanna squad up?" "Sure." and for those handful of missions, you were the best of friends.
Some other games have tugged the strings, but that's it.
It was on Earth. Me and god knows how many others were holding the Wormhole, I can't dare to imagine how many there were total on the 7 shards of that map. We saw the last bane fall and the final bits of fireworks went off. Me and my squad lined up for a screenshot and in the chatbox I saw the GM. "10....9.....8" We all said as many of our byes as we could. The chatbox was filled with last second pleas to not do it.
"1"
And the servers for Tabula Rasa were cut.
I know a lot of people don't hold the game at high stakes. But I loved it. Not because it had awesome gameplay. Not because the maps were all imaginative, and felt alive. But the community. TR had the most grown up community I've seen. The community in the closed and open Beta of Fallen Earth comes as a close second, but the people in TR were the best. Even people who you just met at the entrance of an instance. "Hey, wanna squad up?" "Sure." and for those handful of missions, you were the best of friends.
Some other games have tugged the strings, but that's it.
Russ, your head is reflecting the green screen...
I have cried from a game, I'll blame F3, not gonna say when, but it got me.
I have cried from a game, I'll blame F3, not gonna say when, but it got me.
I love these! Keep up the good work, guys.
Now that I think about it, it seems kind of strange that there's never been a game storyline that's brought me close to tears (excluding tears of rage, when the dang thing crashes for the fortieth time). To be fair, other forms of media tend not to make me cry either, but they do do a better job of almost doing such. You'd think games would have more emotional impact because of the immersiveness and whatnot.
I'm thinking it's either because a decade of gaming has desensitized me, or because - sadly, but truly - a lot of game developers just don't pay too terribly much attention to the storyline.
By the way, have any of you guys ever played "Don't Look Back?" 'Cause that one almost did the trick.
Now that I think about it, it seems kind of strange that there's never been a game storyline that's brought me close to tears (excluding tears of rage, when the dang thing crashes for the fortieth time). To be fair, other forms of media tend not to make me cry either, but they do do a better job of almost doing such. You'd think games would have more emotional impact because of the immersiveness and whatnot.
I'm thinking it's either because a decade of gaming has desensitized me, or because - sadly, but truly - a lot of game developers just don't pay too terribly much attention to the storyline.
By the way, have any of you guys ever played "Don't Look Back?" 'Cause that one almost did the trick.
Great video! You should make some hard copies and send it to a lot of the devs of there. One particular game that got me (although I was much younger at the time, sigh) was Jane Jensen's masterpiece "Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers". When I first found the fate of one of the main characters I pounded the desk, I walked about the room and smote the furniture, "He can't die!" I shouted. Great piece of storytelling that one, sadly almost all but lost to the sands of time. Oh and Russ, I know you wanted to say System Shock (2). I understand though, it's a bit too far in the past(sigh again). Sgt. Bronson's final log. Yeah.
And I'm willing to bet that Ultrajoe's watched that video several times just so he could coo over your voice being "aural chocolate."Logan Westbrook said:
I want to see games that emotionally engage me to the point of crying. I think that it's more than just a matter of story, it's atmosphere, musical score and gameplay as well which influence the story in the manner of telling, much like prose, poetry etc. influence the stories told.
An example of this not from games is Ghost In The Shell. The work as a whole is, in my not-very-humble opinion a spectacular work of art. To single out one feature like "it's an anime" or "it has the Major who is eye candy and kicks So Much Arse" feels like it cheats the rest of its due. It's the story, it's the art, it's the characters and it's the social commentary. The combination is greater than the parts by far.
It's just a matter of translating that into games. Unfortunately for the medium it's far easier and less expensive to put out something to target a mass audience than it is to work out the art of getting a powerful emotional response.
A game that makes you cry...
The closest a MOVIE has brought me to tears lately was Requiem for a Dream. But that was a tale of constant good spirit but ultimate failure... Wouldn't a game that makes you fail by default be the opposite of rewarding? I can accept watching a movie and not feel rewarded, but play something for 10 hours and die? Not sure is the interactivity might get in the way of emotions.
Also, most gamers are not THAT attached to their games. They just play them sometimes for a few hours. Just sayin'.
The closest a MOVIE has brought me to tears lately was Requiem for a Dream. But that was a tale of constant good spirit but ultimate failure... Wouldn't a game that makes you fail by default be the opposite of rewarding? I can accept watching a movie and not feel rewarded, but play something for 10 hours and die? Not sure is the interactivity might get in the way of emotions.
Also, most gamers are not THAT attached to their games. They just play them sometimes for a few hours. Just sayin'.