The Escapist users and Rape

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Palademon

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Mar 20, 2010
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I don't get why you think your point of view dserves a whole thread.

Just because people disagree it doesn't make them rapists, and the whole point of the thread is that it's not a cleanly cut decision.

Also, how is consent while drunk not willful, but initiationg sex while drunk undefendable?
So it's a case of "You consented, it's not your fault you were drunk" whilst at the same time being "You initiated sex, being drunk isn't an excuse."

What the Hell?
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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Oh I do not give a shit in the world if you do not like my views on this subject or not.

Other things I'm more lenient about, but in this case I don't care. You are responsible for your actions. If someone tricks you into getting drugged, take them to court.

If you agree to have sex while intoxicated with a random stranger, tough luck. You either shouldn't be getting drunk around strangers, or you should just plain not be getting drunk in the first place.

I understand that there are some extreme cases every once in while where the female is almost legally unconscious whilst agreeing to it (which in that case they'd practically not even be able to move), and sure, that's rape. But other than that, I have no idea how people like yourself can honestly defend that bogus law. It's sexist, it's unfair (use that word loosely), and it's a legal mouse trap.
 

idarkphoenixi

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May 2, 2011
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I wont say it's the girls "fault" for being drunk. However, she does have a responsibility to drink safely and with friends to keep watch.

Rape is never the victims fault but a lot can be done to prevent the risk of it happening. Many people say the excuse of her dressing inappropriately is disgusting but I say not going through a dark alley alone and wearing a mini skirt + boob tube is just common sense.
 
Feb 9, 2011
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Colour-Scientist said:
I don't bother entering into these kinds of discussions on this site anymore. My best advice is to steer clear of them.
Ditto. There usually is never a good outcome and it just devolves into a shouting and swearing contest.


*leaves thread*
 

Hobonicus

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Feb 12, 2010
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I actually read the comments on that rape ad thread earlier today and dear god did they disgust me. Overwhelmingly the attitude seemed to be "If you're stupid enough to be drunk and vulnerable then don't get surprised when someone rapes you."

A girl giving clear-headed consent and then later falsely claiming that their drunkenness misguided her is an issue that apparently people on that thread believe is more pervasive and important than actual rape. But instead of keeping to that topic they combined it with the actual crime and expanded to the point where people were claiming that a girl allowing herself to be intoxicated, attractive, and vulnerable makes her partially responsible for what someone does to her which is so sickeningly wrong and insulting to both genders that I would be less astounded had I found out the commenters had recently time traveled from the dark ages.

I'm never one to stand up for feminism but sweet jesus there are a lot of incredibly insensitive people in that thread. Like, truly bad people. I'm also never one for any form of censorship - people should always speak their mind - but when the issue of rape comes up and the overwhelming response is extremely defensive and berating backlash, it's so disappointing.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Apr 2, 2010
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"Rape"... is whatever the law defines it as. There's no point trying to morally justify anything. If it's illegal, it's illegal. There is nothing left on the issue, personal standards aside; frankly, my issue on sex has always been: if it's legal, what you do in your free time is nothing to do with me. Go nuts.

xXxJessicaxXx said:
I do try not to drink wine...but it's so tasty. :<
Wine addicts always just remind me of Bernard Black.

 

sinsfire

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Nov 17, 2009
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irishda said:
First point, this one is true. Intoxication has never been a defense ever.
One point of order. You are correct that voluntary intoxication is not a defense. But involuntary intoxication can be. The hypothetical would be someone drugs you then you kill someone due to the drugging, that can be a defense. otherwise i think you have some pretty good righteous indignation going.
 

seraphy

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Jan 2, 2011
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Hobonicus said:
I actually read the comments on that rape ad thread earlier today and dear god did they disgust me. Overwhelmingly the attitude seemed to be "If you're stupid enough to be drunk and vulnerable then don't get surprised when someone rapes you."

A girl giving clear-headed consent and then later falsely claiming that their drunkenness is an issue that apparently people on that thread believe is more pervasive and important than actual rape. But instead of keeping to that topic they combined it with the actual crime and expanded to the point where people were claiming that a girl allowing herself to be intoxicated, attractive, and vulnerable makes her partially responsible for what someone does to her which is so sickeningly wrong and insulting to both genders that I would be less astounded had I found out the commenters had recently time traveled from the dark ages.

I'm never one to stand up for feminism but sweet jesus there are a lot of incredibly insensitive people in that thread. Like, truly bad people. I'm also never one for any form of censorship - people should always speak their mind - but when the issue of rape comes up and the overwhelming response is extremely defensive and berating backlash, it's so disappointing.
Indeed, really have to wonder what is wrong with some people here. Luckily law in most countries isn't that blind as those people.
 

Ickorus

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Mar 9, 2009
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This could have been put in the other thread.

Again: If, of your own volition, you get so drunk that you start making stupid decisions, you should accept the consequences of your actions.

If people were a bit bloody responsible with their alcohol comsumption we wouldn't even be having this discussion because nobody would be so out of their heads that they don't remember whether they consented or not and any cases where that did happen we'd know something was fishy about it.

What I find so wrong about it being illegal is that it leaves a massive grey area in the law that allows people to claim other completely decent and not-rapist people as rapists and essentially destroy their entire lives; rape is a serious and horrible crime and claiming drunken sex as such makes the suffering of people who actually have been raped seem less terrible when others can claim it when really they woke up and didn't like what they found in their bed.

EDIT: And stop changing our fucking words, we haven't been saying "If you get drunk it's your own fault you got raped" no, we're saying "If you get drunk, and whilst drunk consent to sex with a stranger, it's your own damned fault and you should take responsibility for your actions and the actions of drunk you" Rape in my eyes it when someone FORCES themselves upon you, not when you willingly go to bed with them. (Drunk or otherwise)

Wanna know why I feel so fucking strongly on this subject? A friend of mine, a great guy by all accounts, was accused of rape because whilst he and some woman were drunk they had sex and the woman didn't like what she saw in the morning; the guy didn't take advantage of her, he didn't spike her drinks or even buy a damned drink for her; she didn't report it in the end but she spread the shit around enough that it fucked his life over pretty bad for a while.
 

Thaluikhain

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Jan 16, 2010
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seraphy said:
Indeed, really have to wonder what is wrong with some people here. Luckily law in most countries isn't that blind as those people.
Er...I'd not be too sure about that. Conviction rates for rape are consistently tiny, in part because these sort of attitudes aren't merely held by people who post on the Escapist and exist otherwise in some isolated limbo.
 

seraphy

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Jan 2, 2011
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Ickorus said:
EDIT: And stop changing our fucking words, we haven't been saying "If you get drunk it's your own fault you got raped" no, we're saying "If you get drunk, and whilst drunk consent to sex with a stranger, it's your own damned fault and you should take responsibility for your actions and the actions of drunk you" Rape in my eyes it when someone FORCES themselves upon you, not when you willingly go to bed with them. (Drunk or otherwise)
Don't be stupid. You can't give consent when your judgement is impaired.

I'll give you other example that isn't about rape but is similar, someone would try getting signature for a will for example, from a drunk person. Do you think that will would hold in court if it was challenged, clearly the one who wrote it wasn't in right mind to do that agreement. As such it is null and void.

This is exactly same thing.
 

seraphy

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Jan 2, 2011
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thaluikhain said:
seraphy said:
Indeed, really have to wonder what is wrong with some people here. Luckily law in most countries isn't that blind as those people.
Er...I'd not be too sure about that. Conviction rates for rape are consistently tiny, in part because these sort of attitudes aren't merely held by people who post on the Escapist and exist otherwise in some isolated limbo.
Ah. Well you are correct of course. But at least in theory law is bit better than these people.
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
My problem is is that if I get drunk on wine I tend to jump on the nearest male thing in the vicinity, I can hardly blame them for that in the morning can I. xD

I do try not to drink wine...but it's so tasty. :<
Ah yes the club and bars paradox, girls won't touch you with a 10 foot pole until they get plastered and then you haveto wonder if it's even legal.

I actually keep to that "don't hump drunk girls" rule but that only racked up more then a few unkind words towards my character, on the upside I never had to pick up soap in a prison shower.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Aug 22, 2011
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Alcohol is great.

People who are fun to be with while drinking alcohol are usually good fun to have around while not drinking alcohol. A nice bottle of wine shared with friends over a lenghty exchange of words and thoughts and notions that allow everyone to feel a little bit more human, a little bit more enlightened - splendid fun.

Getting completely pished out to find yourself in jail, court or some stranger's bed - no fun, methinks.

The trouble starts when people use alcohol as a cheap excuse, a tool to deliver premeditated idiocy.

If one drinks so much alcohol that it is not merely a well-accepted potion of fun and merriment, but an intoxicant poison that fogs the mind, dissolves the brain and summons up more filth and stinky bits than the average stomach content of the average human being can hold, we are in trouble territory. Most people tend to be immature and stupid at some point in their life. It's up to us if we decide to do our best enjoying life or die trying, or drink ourselves silly until we're shivering, spitting and rambling specimen A down at the looney bin.

I would expect a lot of people to have gotten into situations they wouldn't have had to endure had they not decided to drink themselves stupid. On the other hand, how many folks are jailed or fined and now convicted felons because the law allowed the other party to try and exorcise some demon instead of feeling shame for their own poor decision-making skills?

We're humans, hooray for that. But we're also little more than animals when left to our own devices. Most of us abuse our big clunky brains for nefarious or selfish reasons, it's only natural to not want to side with either the "victim" or the "rapist" if both decided to let loose and drink themselves to the intellectual capacities of amoebas with genitals.
 

Ursinedriver

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Nov 30, 2010
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Radelaide said:
No means no; no matter if you're sober, drunk, high, whatever.
True. The issue here however, is whether yes means yes when you're drunk. Personally, I feel that if you're going to do something that impairs your judgement willfully, then you are responsible for whatever you do while your judgement is impaired. If I get high and decide to rob a bank, I'm still going to be charged with bank robbery as if I was sober, likewise, I believe that if you get drunk of your owwn free will, any actions you take will drunk should be seen as just as valid as when you were sober.
 

Torrasque

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Aug 6, 2010
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In my defense, I am pretty sure the OP asked my opinion of the matter, and my opinion doesn't give a balls about the correct legality of matters.
But yeah, everything that you said above makes sense.
If someone did say "I was drunk, and this drunk person had sex with me and I consider it rape", they'd have no case at all.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Nov 9, 2008
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Dr. Pepper Unlimited said:
Colour-Scientist said:
I don't bother entering into these kinds of discussions on this site anymore. My best advice is to steer clear of them.
Ditto. There usually is never a good outcome and it just devolves into a shouting and swearing contest.


*leaves thread*
Indeed. This shit is far too vague and up for debate. We should put insta-locks on these to be honest.