The Ethics of "Project Harpoon"

[Johkmil]

Why do so many people think disgust, blind hatred and condemnation will make other people healthier?
No-one benefits from spreading self-hatred, it is entirely possible to make people love themselves and work to live a healthier lifestyle. In fact, it is a powerful motivator for actual change; why improve what you hate anyway?

 

[Phasmal]

Remember there are dicks on both sides of the fence, one gets media sympathy however.

Which one is that, then? None of those stories struck me as particularly sympathised by the media. Fat women are judged as disgusting and only praised when they lose weight, women who are skinny are called anorexic, women with muscles are `trying to be men`. Just looks like you'll get shat on by someone no matter what you look like.

And to be honest it's shitty that we so often pit skinny women against fat women. In the end it just comes down to what people look like, and that's dumb. People make noises that they're just concerned for these people's health, but I really really don't buy it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Why do so many people think disgust, blind hatred and condemnation will make other people healthier?

Well, if at first you don't succeed, try try again. Sooner or later it'll stop being a dismal failure, right?

More seriously, I'd tend to question how committed people trying that are to helping people lose weight.

 

[Denamic]

SNIP

That's what saying "I like women with some meat on their bones." means. I was using cool as in a I couldn't care any less type of tone. I even said it isn't my job to tell people how to care about their bodies. That signifies I don't give a shit. I never tried to mask it either. Why you think I did I have no idea.

I've told him it's a shitty excuse but his health and weight isn't my problem.

"Some meat on their bones" is masking it. That's my point. Just say overweight, just say fat. Don't hide behind stuff like "meat on their bone" or "some curves".

I wasn't hiding behind anything. If it wasn't a well known phrase that would be one thing but it's a well known phrase. It refers to both fat and overweight women. It has one meaning and you obviously know it as well billions of others. If I was trying to hide behind a phrase I would use one not many people know that has many different meanings. That's how you hide behind your wording.

You can continue to mistakenly think I was making my words but in the end I am right and you're wrong.

Saying you like "some meat on their bones" is literally saying you like them muscular. Fat isn't meat.

 

[Fallow]

Why do so many people think disgust, blind hatred and condemnation will make other people healthier?
No-one benefits from spreading self-hatred, it is entirely possible to make people love themselves and work to live a healthier lifestyle. In fact, it is a powerful motivator for actual change; why improve what you hate anyway?

Why do so many people think disgust, blind hatred and condemnation will make other people healthier?

Well, if at first you don't succeed, try try again. Sooner or later it'll stop being a dismal failure, right?

More seriously, I'd tend to question how committed people trying that are to helping people lose weight.

Spoiler

Come on guys, all you had to do was read. If you want to signal how accepting and pure you are, at least put the minimum amount of effort into it.

 

[Bat Vader]

SNIP

That's what saying "I like women with some meat on their bones." means. I was using cool as in a I couldn't care any less type of tone. I even said it isn't my job to tell people how to care about their bodies. That signifies I don't give a shit. I never tried to mask it either. Why you think I did I have no idea.

I've told him it's a shitty excuse but his health and weight isn't my problem.

"Some meat on their bones" is masking it. That's my point. Just say overweight, just say fat. Don't hide behind stuff like "meat on their bone" or "some curves".

I wasn't hiding behind anything. If it wasn't a well known phrase that would be one thing but it's a well known phrase. It refers to both fat and overweight women. It has one meaning and you obviously know it as well billions of others. If I was trying to hide behind a phrase I would use one not many people know that has many different meanings. That's how you hide behind your wording.

You can continue to mistakenly think I was making my words but in the end I am right and you're wrong.

Saying you like "some meat on their bones" is literally saying you like them muscular. Fat isn't meat.

That's not what the phrase means. It means to like women that are fat or overweight. http://bfy.tw/1YdE

 

[Johkmil]

Spoiler

Come on guys, all you had to do was read. If you want to signal how accepting and pure you are, at least put the minimum amount of effort into it.

If you want to compare critical reading skills, bring it on.
You did notice the image was cropped by intention to hide the fact that that article was originally from the Daily Mail, British tabloid infamous for straight-up fabricating stories, right? Example: http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/mar/17/dailymail-pcc

Internet source criticism 101:
Be vary if:
1 - You are provided with a picture of an article instead of a link.
2 - The picture is provided with no source.
3 - Only parts of the article is available.

If all three are true, don't take anything provided as fact and, by all means, do not spread it further.

Come on Fallow, all you had to do was read. If you want to signal how wrong others are, at least put the minimum amount of effort into it.

Captcha: make my day.
Indeed.

 

[webkilla]

The project makes fun of the sad fact that these fat women basically have the potential to be slim and beautiful women - that's it. It parodies their own bellyaching, highlighting how silly their own claims are

You've equated being slim with being beautiful, which is subjective.

You're also claiming that losing a substantial amount of weight and keeping it off is feasible, which objectively it isn't for most people. Statistically, the amount of people that try and succeed at this is tiny, single digits percentile if that.

>claiming that its impossible for 'most' people to lose weight and keep it off
>implying that being slim doesn't key into certain natural instinctive evolved responses that we conciously perceive as beauty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7z25sN1rZ4
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/17-facts-about-human-sexual-attraction_n_3817941.html

Ya... no.

You have all the rights in the world to stay fat. I will not object to that. You can be a chubby-chaser if that's your thing. I will not object to you doing that - but do not expect me to join in.

Sure, it might be really tough to get to astronaught levels of fitness - I never claimed you have to do that - but staying non-chubby isn't that difficult if you eat right, get a lil exercise and lay off the junkfood.

Oh you don't have to... but I don't have to find a fat person attractive either.


Christ - all the people in this thread basically going "Making us aware that a fat person could be a slim person is making us feel bad - and that's not nice - so people shouldn't be allowed to do that, because our hurt feels"

Look - I know that losing weight ain't easy - but that's life, its tough like that. What do you want, do you want the very standard of beauty for all of humanity to be altered so obese becomes the new beauty standard - will that make you feel good? I sure hope not.


FFS: Do not forget what all this was started in response to - those morons at that bulimic help center or whatnot that tried to equate being overweight with being normal (and going so far as to imply that chubsters could function as anything from tomb raiders to pit fighters)


I for one find it abhorent and disgusting to see any kind of effort to redefine "beautiful" so that obese people can feel better about themselves. It's not healthy, and doing shit like that would only encourage such weight-gains. Lets not go down that road

Yes I know that is an extreme that hopefully none of you agree with - but there are idiots out there who are genuinely advocating for this. I will link to it if you do not believe me - but its honestly not that far fetched... just google "big is beautiful" or look up almost any fat acceptance online community.


Now please, go ahead and tell me how wrong and cruel I am for not agreeing with you

 

[Bat Vader]

The project makes fun of the sad fact that these fat women basically have the potential to be slim and beautiful women - that's it. It parodies their own bellyaching, highlighting how silly their own claims are

You've equated being slim with being beautiful, which is subjective.

You're also claiming that losing a substantial amount of weight and keeping it off is feasible, which objectively it isn't for most people. Statistically, the amount of people that try and succeed at this is tiny, single digits percentile if that.

>claiming that its impossible for 'most' people to lose weight and keep it off
>implying that being slim doesn't key into certain natural instinctive evolved responses that we conciously perceive as beauty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7z25sN1rZ4
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/17-facts-about-human-sexual-attraction_n_3817941.html

Ya... no.

You have all the rights in the world to stay fat. I will not object to that. You can be a chubby-chaser if that's your thing. I will not object to you doing that - but do not expect me to join in.

Sure, it might be really tough to get to astronaught levels of fitness - I never claimed you have to do that - but staying non-chubby isn't that difficult if you eat right, get a lil exercise and lay off the junkfood.

Oh you don't have to... but I don't have to find a fat person attractive either.


Christ - all the people in this thread basically going "Making us aware that a fat person could be a slim person is making us feel bad - and that's not nice - so people shouldn't be allowed to do that, because our hurt feels"

Look - I know that losing weight ain't easy - but that's life, its tough like that. What do you want, do you want the very standard of beauty for all of humanity to be altered so obese becomes the new beauty standard - will that make you feel good? I sure hope not.


FFS: Do not forget what all this was started in response to - those morons at that bulimic help center or whatnot that tried to equate being overweight with being normal (and going so far as to imply that chubsters could function as anything from tomb raiders to pit fighters)


I for one find it abhorent and disgusting to see any kind of effort to redefine "beautiful" so that obese people can feel better about themselves. It's not healthy, and doing shit like that would only encourage such weight-gains. Lets not go down that road

Yes I know that is an extreme that hopefully none of you agree with - but there are idiots out there who are genuinely advocating for this. I will link to it if you do not believe me - but its honestly not that far fetched... just google "big is beautiful" or look up almost any fat acceptance online community.


Now please, go ahead and tell me how wrong and cruel I am for not agreeing with you

I don't agree with you and I don't think you're wrong and cruel. I don't agree with SJWs and I don't believe they are wrong or cruel.

Editing the pictures of real or fictional people is a dick move. I think we can both agree on that. Beautiful is a market. If more people start finding bigger people attractive beauty will be shifted towards them to make money. As far as I can see that's isn't going to happen anytime soon. Sure there are plus size models but the majority of women that are called beautiful are skinny. You don't really have anything to worry about. You're right, you don't have to find a fat person attractive just as I don't have to find a skinny person attractive. As I said before in an earlier post to someone else I turned down a woman because she was skinny.

People are idiots because they advocate for something you disagree with? How about instead of generalizing someone's intelligence you get to know them first. Just because they advocate something you disagree with doesn't mean they are idiots. I don't agree with what SJWs advocate but I don't consider them idiots. I couldn't care any less about movements like "big is beautiful". It isn't my job to care about insignificant shit like that.

 

[webkilla]

The project makes fun of the sad fact that these fat women basically have the potential to be slim and beautiful women - that's it. It parodies their own bellyaching, highlighting how silly their own claims are

*snip*

Uhm... no

1) I do NOT agree that photoshopping fat people skinny is bad - you need to remember the original context here!
- anti-eating disorder people were photoshopping skinny/fit people fat and claiming that it was more normal and not bad for you
- trying to normalize being fat means ignoring the undeniable health risks

THAT is what I call idiotic.

THAT is the kind of idea I disagree with.


and you might not care that other fat acceptance advocates are doing really stupid shit - but you apparently fail to realize that you, as another defender of fat people (well, you come off as one) end up looking stupid by proxy because of their actions.

...you might not care about that - but when enough of the fat-acceptance people I hear of are talking lunacy, then the rest of them - even if they're being nice on their own - then they're dragging you down with them.

EDIT: just to clarify - again - you can be as fat as you want, just don't delude yourself (and especially not others) into thinking that its healthy to be fat.

 

[Timeless Lavender]

Not Surprise. The internet has successfully desensitize ever nerve I have to be angry anymore. But the whole existence of this "Project" and people's defense for this just show how irrational, illogical and irredeemable those people are. They rather defend their video games characters ( PS. Not a fan of the Bulimia project Photoshop) rather than actually defend real people.

This whole movement reeks of self-righteousness, thinking that "over weight " women are unattractive to "everyone". There are people who find them just as attractive just like people who found smokers, motor cyclists, fake tanned people as attractive.

Also, LOLs on their view on over weight and normal weight. Instead of using social and culturally views of healthy, they should have best used the scientific views of healthy AKA the correct one.

Oh, I forgot to LOLs at people who thought that insulting and editing the pics are ways to motivate "over weight" persons. Yup it does, but they forgot to add the "De" in front of it.

 

[Dizchu]

I'm sorry I put the effort in to not be a lazy slob. Fat people accepting their unhealthy lifestyle and thinking it's a good thing are the problem.

I am a lazy slob. I don't have the best diet. But because I am skinny, I am somehow exempt from this treatment?

>claiming that its impossible for 'most' people to lose weight and keep it off

Not impossible, but difficult. People have different metabolisms, people have been raised differently, people have different lifestyles, careers, responsibilities, interests, ideals, etc. It's easy for me to say that staying thin is easy and fat people just "don't try hard enough" because I don't need to put any effort into staying thin.

I'm not saying that this completely excuses overweight people and makes obesity fine, of course it doesn't. But whether or not they want to put the effort into losing weight is their decision. I mean, you said yourself that

You have all the rights in the world to stay fat. I will not object to that. You can be a chubby-chaser if that's your thing. I will not object to you doing that - but do not expect me to join in.

Nobody is asking you to join in, by the way.

>implying that being slim doesn't key into certain natural instinctive evolved responses that we conciously perceive as beauty

This is an extremely oversimplified way to look at it. There are some cultures, both historically and presently, that have admired fatness. If you live in a culture where food is sparse, being overweight is seen as a status symbol. There have been works of art from thousands of years ago all the way up to the present day that have depicted overweight women as the pinnacle of beauty.

As much as many people like to believe, there isn't this one "ideal" body type that has been universally sought after since prehistoric times. The only things everyone seems to agree on when it comes to "ideal beauty" are things like facial symmetry and lack of prominent indicators of disease. And no, being overweight isn't the same as having leprosy.

All of this is coming from someone that prefers slim people. My preferences don't invalidate everyone else's.

Oh you don't have to... but I don't have to find a fat person attractive either.

Who said you did?

Look - I know that losing weight ain't easy - but that's life, its tough like that. What do you want, do you want the very standard of beauty for all of humanity to be altered so obese becomes the new beauty standard - will that make you feel good? I sure hope not.

I for one find it abhorent and disgusting to see any kind of effort to redefine "beautiful" so that obese people can feel better about themselves. It's not healthy, and doing shit like that would only encourage such weight-gains. Lets not go down that road

Nobody is arguing this. Not in this thread at least.

And you can't redefine "beautiful" because beauty is a subjective concept. I find beauty in death metal music, violent video games, run-down buildings and mathematics. Things that are commonly considered "ugly" or "dull". I also find many of the things that are commonly considered "beautiful" to be superficial and boring, maybe even ugly themselves (over-exposed celebrities like Kim Kardashian, for example).

You can't argue that those things aren't beautiful because your interpretation of those things is not the same as mine.

Why are you generalising the entire discussion to two sides, one that is "rational" and the other that thinks "bones are for dogs, meat is for men" and other such obnoxious thin-shaming clichés?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Editing the pictures of real or fictional people is a dick move.

Yeah, those poor fictional people, what ever shall they do? Oh well, next week they'll probably be Disney princesses.

- anti-eating disorder people were photoshopping skinny/fit people fat and claiming that it was more normal

With average proportions and claiming it was normal. Which is far from the norm of the genres those pictures were from.

Also, what DizzyChuggernaut said.

 

[Bat Vader]

The project makes fun of the sad fact that these fat women basically have the potential to be slim and beautiful women - that's it. It parodies their own bellyaching, highlighting how silly their own claims are

*snip*

Uhm... no

1) I do NOT agree that photoshopping fat people skinny is bad - you need to remember the original context here!
- anti-eating disorder people were photoshopping skinny/fit people fat and claiming that it was more normal and not bad for you
- trying to normalize being fat means ignoring the undeniable health risks

THAT is what I call idiotic.

THAT is the kind of idea I disagree with.


and you might not care that other fat acceptance advocates are doing really stupid shit - but you apparently fail to realize that you, as another defender of fat people (well, you come off as one) end up looking stupid by proxy because of their actions.

...you might not care about that - but when enough of the fat-acceptance people I hear of are talking lunacy, then the rest of them - even if they're being nice on their own - then they're dragging you down with them.

EDIT: just to clarify - again - you can be as fat as you want, just don't delude yourself (and especially not others) into thinking that its healthy to be fat.

I know the context here and I consider what both sides did to be massive dick moves. If someone wants to get as big as a house that's their choice. If they end up dying of a massive heart attack that's their own damn fault. If someone wants to puke their guts into a toilet and become bulimic and anorexic that's their choice. If they end up dying from it that's their own damn fault. Like I said before it isn't my job to tell people how to live their lives. As long as it doesn't negatively effect/affect me I couldn't care any less how someone lives their lives. I'm skinny and healthy and that's all I care about. Fuck people.

 

[Bat Vader]

Editing the pictures of real or fictional people is a dick move.

Yeah, those poor fictional people, what ever shall they do? Oh well, next week they'll probably be Disney princesses.

I'm sorry is it somehow wrong to equally hate on both sides in this stupid fight? Last time I looked taking a third option was a valid choice.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Editing the pictures of real or fictional people is a dick move.

Yeah, those poor fictional people, what ever shall they do? Oh well, next week they'll probably be Disney princesses.

I'm sorry is it somehow wrong to equally hate on both sides in this stupid fight? Last time I looked taking a third option was a valid choice.

Equating fictional characters with real people isn't usually a great idea.

 

[webkilla]

Editing the pictures of real or fictional people is a dick move.

Yeah, those poor fictional people, what ever shall they do? Oh well, next week they'll probably be Disney princesses.

- anti-eating disorder people were photoshopping skinny/fit people fat and claiming that it was more normal

With average proportions and claiming it was normal. Which is far from the norm of the genres those pictures were from.

Also, what DizzyChuggernaut said.

average?

wait to be nice and america-centric

I'll stay over here in scandinavian europe where the AVERAGE norm for body size and shape is still somewhere around reasonably slim.

See, when you say average - you're normalizing. Setting the norm as fat isn't healthy.

That's what I'm objecting to - so please don't.


And to all the belly-aching that losing weight is too difficult, and 'muh metabolism' I can only say: No you. You have literally no excuse. There are so many simple diets out there, quite a lot of which are tooled to ensure that you don't feel that you're starving yoruself - though if someone's a person who's used to wolfing down big macs and whoppers left and right at every meal, then dialing that back is sure to make one feel a tad empty inside.

Quit making excuses and either make like that Shia Lebuef video and DO IT - just straight up admit "I do not have the willpower and/or personal dicipline to regiment my own diet, I am a failure at one of the most basic things a human should be able to do"

Making excuses only makes my debating boner harder, so why not just own up and bite the bullet, or I'll be going in with dry-wit.

 

[webkilla]

Editing the pictures of real or fictional people is a dick move.

Yeah, those poor fictional people, what ever shall they do? Oh well, next week they'll probably be Disney princesses.

I'm sorry is it somehow wrong to equally hate on both sides in this stupid fight? Last time I looked taking a third option was a valid choice.

Equating fictional characters with real people isn't usually a great idea.

"Fictional fit people makes me feel inferior - lets make them fat like me instead"

Great logic there - even greater to make fun of

 

[Thaluikhain]

average?

wait to be nice and america-centric

I'll stay over here in scandinavian europe where the AVERAGE norm for body size and shape is still somewhere around reasonably slim.

Fair enough...but then why are you complaining about an American campaign aimed at Americans then?

See, when you say average - you're normalizing. Setting the norm as fat isn't healthy.

Setting the norm? The norm exists despite what people would have it as. Acknowledging that something exists is not the same as creating it.

And to all the belly-aching that losing weight is too difficult, and 'muh metabolism' I can only say: No you. You have literally no excuse. There are so many simple diets out there, quite a lot of which are tooled to ensure that you don't feel that you're starving yoruself - though if someone's a person who's used to wolfing down big macs and whoppers left and right at every meal, then dialing that back is sure to make one feel a tad empty inside.

Nice story, excepting that it doesn't work that way in the really real world. Before you say it, I am borderline underweight, I'd have serious difficulty putting a substantial amount of weight on. Eating badly might make me feel sick, but not fat.

"Fictional fit people makes me feel inferior - lets make them fat like me instead"

Great logic there - even greater to make fun of

Or to strawman, it seems.

 

[umbr44]

As a healthy-ish sized person who was larger before, and also slimmer, since reaching my final height of 6 foot. (High of 13 stone, low of 9.5 stone, currently about 11 stone 4 pounds.)

I think it's easy to forget, or not even realise that even for one person, losing weight is not a straight forward thing. If I were to binge out and eat an entire cake, I would put on weight; if I immediately upped my exercise to counteract that, I would lose that weight easily, but it's harder to lose weight you've had for a longer period of time.

For simple numbers sake, say that I weight 11 stone, after eating that cake I now weigh 11 stone 1 pound. I lose that extra pound in a week and then return my life the way it was before....I then stay at 11 stone. Now lets say I've weighed 11 stone 1 pound for 5 years with exactly the same lifestyle as above, I up my exercise for a week and lose that extra pound. I return to my normal lifestyle but within a week or some I'm at 11 stone 1 pound again.

Our bodies are still designed to horde fat in case food runs out, if you are overweight for a long period of time, your body thinks that is normal and will do anything it can to get back there. Diets fail often because returning to a normal relatively healthy lifestyle after isn't always enough, your body will try to get back it where it was before.

So yes, it IS harder for people who have been overweight for a long time to lose weight, that it is for someone who just binged and ate an entire 15 inch pizza.


Having said that... I do think it is wrong if anybody tries to show an overweight lifestyle as being healthy, I just think it's unfair to equate losing short term weight gain to long term weight gain. They are different and it's not surprising that many people can't manage it even when they try.