The European Union, your views
- Thread starter LockHeart
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Uh.. no. No.Oopsie said:
The USA is one country divided in many similar states(actually identical by their inhabitants, culture, currency, language, everything). The EU is a union of countries. It consists of many completely different countries, with completely different views on the world, which is good, and completely different people, races, languages, everything.
Its purpose is mostly economical, it acts like.. well, like a union of countries. Each country still mostly runs itself completely by itself, is mostly independent and the only main interaction it has with the union and the other countries is either helping others or recieving help and stuff like regulating resources, the army and shit like that.
Hell, some countries still have monarchy, while some don't, does USA have that? Didn't think so.
USA has none of that. It's in almost all views a single country.
I'm just saying that the fact that they aren't hampered by EU tariffs with outside nations, and can trade normally with EU members as they are part of the European Economic Area, coupled with the lack of taxes to pay to the EU, means that they're economically better off as they can fully exploit these resources.Axeli said:
Of course I meant economically, who really cares about military strength in this day and age?LockHeart said:
The EU can become the world's biggest economic power when I think of all the variety of cultures and the different products we produce.
Europe is great at exporting a great variety of goods all around the world and the Euro has been very stable. Unfotrunately, it's becoming a bit too valuable now with the recession, limiting our exporting strength a bit, but that'll pass.
Hm. I remember back in school we had a topic in English LK about Great Britain, "the 51st state". Basically, it was about the UK being more in touch with the USA than Europe and why many British wish to leave the EU. I didn't really believe this back then but it does sound a lot like that right now.
Axeli said the other thing already.
Norway realized they like the way they live their life and don't need help from others to stay stable. Do you think other EU countries before joining the EU were as stable as Norway, or on their way to becoming as stable? Not really. Most of them needed to rely on each other, even since the world wars. Norway and Switzerland just decided they don't want to make sacrifices for benefits because they wouldn't actually benefit much, since they're very successful on their own. Again, even since the world wars.LockHeart said:What do you mean by compete? Militarily? Economic?
Norway has the second highest GDP per-capita (after Luxembourg) and third highest GDP (PPP) per-capita in the world. Not a part of the EU.
Military competition wouldn't matter in a state of heavily armed, nuclear neutrality. Lower taxes and cut red tape to allow more businesses from all over the globe to set up here = economic growth. Once other countries establish valuable economic links, military action is highly unlikely to ever occur, especially with our current defensive pacts.
Economical advantages? Care to elaborate? All I've seen are higher taxes to fund the EU...
Open borders can be negotiated through bilateral treaties.
If we want to support other countries we can voluntarily give aid, we don't need it taken from us through extra taxes.
We already have 'stricter rules'. They override our homemade ones and follow a legal structure completely alien to the Common Law.
EDIT: Just re-read this and apologies if it seems a tad agressiveThis was typed in between trips to rescue tea from certain firey and chargrilled death.
Your idea about wars is actually great, but it's not about wars with other countries around the world, but about preventing european countries from starting a war between themselves. With EU now, a chance of a war between european countries is very slim.
Other countries (like my home country, Slovenia) benefit much from being part of the EU, though many people complain about the prices skyrocketing because of the euro (seriously, everything is double than before we joined), but overall, the Euro (currency) is supposed to be very stable.
Perhaps you haven't seen any economical advantages, but without the EU, the disadvantages (and the taxes with them) would probably be much higher.
Open borders are meh for me. Same thing as before, really, I don't give a damn, travelling was easy back then too.
But overall, I agree that the Britain got screwed over. You never actually needed help, but unfortunately for you, your leaders were always people-persons and were glad to give a hand to other nations I guess
And they naturally assumed you people could afford to give a penny or two more for the poorer nations. I guess you could've stayed like Norway (hell, you kept your superior currency), but instead chose to share that superior currency with others.Though I don't see much bad about the EU, not from my point of view or from many other countries'. But you still got screwed over
Although, think what it would be like if Britain didn't join. The EU would be weaker, many nations would still be poor, and everyone would think you're assholes.
When you would think of those small monarchies that they could actually small, relatively independent democracies, you have the USA. Take gun laws for instance. They differ from state to state.retro himself said:
European "unifying" legislation is already, and has already been passed, solidifying us as a single power. You may call it a purely economical pact, it is not.
Many enviromental, criminal and financial laws are already in effect, european union wide (I'm only mentioning the countries in which you can travel freely as an European, and which has the Euro as it's currency).
A European constitution was proposed to the peoples of the nations in Europa, which my country declined after a referendum. However, the sad truth of a massive ruling body soon showed itself as our own European Representatives mentioned on television they'll pass it anyway through the back door. And for the most part they already have. By changing my nations own law through it's own, leaking constitution. Europe is already a fully, constitutionalized supernation.
I won't deny we need the economic power of all nations within the EU. What I think we don't need is yet another bureaucratic institution which makes decisions on a untransparant level we never even heard of over here.
Gun laws differ from state to state within certain boundaries. There are still blanket federal laws on gun control. Also the way the US government works is that the federal government can overule a state law that it deems unconstitutional. I don't think most EU nations would like this 'union' to be overuling their laws.Oopsie said:
Apologies for the snipping. I hate text wallsKSarty said:
Why isn't it different? For example; One governing body which overrules any regional laws. If Dutch law can't help you anymore, you turn to the European court. Which has the power to overrule any law in that nations law if it's in the European law.
Ofcourse if that isn't the way it works in USA I will happily retract my first post.
Including the placeholders left in the Constitution project.
It was like signing a blank leaflet, knowing that there would be text added afterward, although without knowing what it would be. Best way to get screwed.
But screwed we were anyway (Lisbon and all).
Yeah sorry about that, I didn't really notice how big all the quotes were getting.Oopsie said:Apologies for the snipping. I hate text wallsKSarty said:
Why isn't it different? For example; One governing body which overrules any regional laws. If Dutch law can't help you anymore, you turn to the European court. Which has the power to overrule any law in that nations law if it's in the European law.
On topic, its not just a matter of the form of government. Like retro himself already said, nearly every country in Europe speaks a different language and has, in some cases, vastly different cultures. The US is typically called a "blending of cultures" because as a whole, it is easy to see a universal culture across all the states. A European Union would be head-on collision of cultures.
