The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Evan Waters]

Felicia Day isn't some nice little girl that the internet pushed from obscurity into the lime light, she is an opportunistic girl that's used a niche demographic for her own advantage.

Here's a hint- SO HAS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS BUSINESS.

THAT IS HOW YOU SUCCEED. YOU CREATE OPPORTUNITIES. YOU DO NOT WAIT AROUND FOR THEM.

That doesn't make her unethical or not "nice" or some kind of manipulative *****. She's probably a decent person who got some celebrity because of The Guild and Dr. Horrible and has leveraged that into more work, some of it in the video game world because The Guild is about an MMO and she seems genuinely interested in games so why not?

Seriously. What wrong is being done? What does she need to answer for?

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Also The Guild doesn't contribute to gaming, it's ABOUT gaming but only as a plot device, that's like saying a drama about a fictional football team contributes to the sport.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Nathan Fillion doesn't pimp himself out to gamers, quite the opposite in fact, he tends to tell us to shut up from time to time.

I seem to recall various interviews leading up to ODST where Nathan Fillion was talking about how much he enjoyed Halo. If our fictional Natasha Fillion (famous for her portrayal of Captain Malorie Reynolds of Firefly) said the same thing, tears of rage would (apparently) have been shed.

 

[Vault101]

That's kind of the topic at hand. Many people see her as doing this. We usually couldn't care less. If it's okay to use her "perceived geekiness" as "a foot in the door to an acting career", then what's wrong with calling her out on it? If she's willing to use gamer stereotypes in her favor, then why is it when someone uses them against her they are suddenly sexist?

This thread seems to have turned in to her fans vs people that hate her, and completely ignoring the Destructoid situation. The issue is here is whether or not Ryan Perez' question had merit to it: I think by your own words it does. Felicia Day isn't some nice little girl that the internet pushed from obscurity into the lime light, she is an opportunistic girl that's used a niche demographic for her own advantage. As such, she should be prepared, and deserves to be asked, questions that aren't always going to be flattering.

how do you actually know this? this seems more like an interpretation on your part

and the fact is its plain as day that this was NOT a legit question...it was a sarcastic rhtorical question with the sole purpose of being an ass...and the guy was an ass, did he deserve what he got? I don't know, probably not

eather way a guy said somthing stupid, made a terrible mistake. things like twitter can have the power to fuck things up as weve seen here...but Its silly to try and dress it up as "a legitimate question"

if I say to somone "are you fucking retarded?" <-am I actually geniunly curious as to weather or not they have an intullectual disability?

the "sexism" part comes from the "implication" or the "idea" that "any female in the gaming biz is OBVIOUSYL just there for her looks" <-which came through in the comment

 

[mindlesspuppet]

So good job pointing out Felicia Day is an actress. Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

Ahahaahahaha....

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.....

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

*cough*

You're right man, like really... Or are you? I think you're just acting like you hate Felicia! Or maybe you're acting like someone who's acting like they hate Felicia! Maybe everyone here actually fucking hates video games, and they're just acting like they do! Maybe I'm not really human, and I'm just a lizard acting like a man!

....No, but seriously, do you think before you type?

Certainly celebrities never take on a public persona to garner a specific audience, I'm sure that never happens... But way to comment with no real insight, argument, or anything of value.

snip...

You are just assuming she is 'acting' like one of us. Male celebrity gamers don't seem to have to prove themselves so why should female gamers.

The same thing happened with Aisha Tyler when she presented for Ubisoft at E3

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

 

[Blade_125]

What has Ryan Perez contributed to journalism? I have no idea, but if he hadn't contributed anything to his job I am sure he would haev been fired before now.

His question was stupid. If she can make money doingwhat she does then what does it matter what she has contributed. If no one wants to watch whatever she does (I've only seen the guild and her dragon age videos nad I enjoyed both) then she will stop being ale to do her projects.

Ryan, people are onyl relevant if everyone else makes them relevant.

 

[Cheesepower5]

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt.

Using a toe stubbing analogy, here's what happened:

1. A Destructroid intern stubs his toe.
2. ITT, some people say "that guy sure stubbed his toe!"
3. Also ITT, some people say "that guy didn't stub his toe! It doesn't count as toe stubbing unless there's blood everywhere!"

Still not sure I follow. Who's saying what.

It's more like, Ryan Perez-Hilton over there stubbed Felicia Day's toe, so then they... hit him in the face with a hockey stick. And the their privates are a big part of their discussion for little reason. Like, maybe Ryan Paris Hilton hates Felicia Day for her privates, or maybe he just said something dumb because that's what alcohol does. Makes people focus on private parts. What was I talking about again?

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

That's kind of dumb.
Why on earth would you single someone out and be like `justify your existance to me!`.
Sounds like a bit of a prick.

Basically this, just seems like someone jealous of her fame.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

No, but it should constitute something that is demeaning to the gender as a whole and not just, you know, Felicia Day.

His comments imply that a well known female who also happens to like and contribute to the gaming community has to be doing something special and be more than just a girl who likes games, otherwise they are obviously only there for sex appeal, and you don't see what's sexist about that?

His questions were directed at the individual personally yes, but the nature and presentation of the questions shows a much uglier attitude to women in the gaming community in general.

Is this so complicated? He wasn't acting like the **** you guys are making him out to be, he was clearly some form of lesser ****. He insulted Wheaton, nobody gives a fuck. You ignore this and say he targets women exclusively, but clearly his issues extend far beyond just women.

Who are these "guys" that you speak of. As far as I know nobody formed any kind of 'Internet White Knighting Alliance', and if they did I'm certainly not part of it. My opinions on what he said are my own. I'm not part of any gang conspiring to present a false image of this guy.

Also, on the contrary, I do, personally, care that he insulted Wheaton. What he wrote was mean-spirited and pathetic to say the least. I never denied it or tried to claim he was attacking women "exclusively", it just wasn't part of the issue I took up with you. That said while his comments towards Wheadon were shitty, they were made while on the defensive, rather than his comments towards Day which just came right the fuck out of nowhere with no provocation, and no language was used that implied disrespect towards Wheadon because of his gender. So, while both were bad, it not entirely accurate to say that they were both the same.

If I had to venture a guess, he's probably a bitter "hardcoar gamur" who hates fake gamers in general. It doesn't all boil down to your black and white world of EVIL SEXIST PIGS and GOOD CHIVALROUS GUYS LIKE ME. People who do this shit are just trying to feel better about themselves.

If that was his motivation then it doesn't make what he said any less sexist, it just makes him doubly ignorant fro attacking her as an example of a "fake" gamer, when just 5 minutes of research (something you'd kind of expect a journalist to be practiced in doing whether what they were asking was part of their work or not) would have told him that she is a genuinely big fan of the industry, and has done a fair bit of work within it.

Please don't patronize me, and more importantly please don't blatantly misrepresent what I say in order to pigeon-hole me into a group that I don't belong to (if it even exists). I never claimed I was a shining beacon of chivalry, nor did I claim that everyone who doesn't think like I do is a chauvinistic pig. But when people insult other people through their gender, that does make them guilty of sexism, no matter how they might see their own 'motivations'.

Those people "trying to feel better about themselves" is not an excuse. For example, if my house had just been robbed and I was feeling bitter, and chose to take it out on a random black guy in the street who I noticed had nice shoes, inquiring who he stole them from, am I being racist? You bet I am. It doesn't matter that I don't really think all black people a thieves. It doesn't matter that I was only trying to make myself feel better, and wouldn't have said it if I was in a good mood. Racist comments are racist, and sexist comments are sexist. The fact that he 'didn't really mean it' if that is the case, doesn't wash. When someone is showing examples of unfair prejudice, never mind why, they should be called out as such. When someone who's job it is to be fair and unbiased, as well as searching, in their questions, is guilty of said prejudice, even outside of their work, then they can't be trusted to do their job properly. When people can't be trusted to do their job properly, they shouldn't expect to keep it.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Well, for the record, I don't go on Twitter and say "What has Extra X contributed to the world of film? Justify your existence!"

Also, voice acting is more performing than extra-ing. There's a significant difference. Just ask SAG.

Also The Guild doesn't contribute to gaming, it's ABOUT gaming but only as a plot device, that's like saying a drama about a fictional football team contributes to the sport.

But doesn't it? I mean, I'm fairly sure a lot of basketball coaches have taken just the slightest bit of inspiration from Gene Hackman in Hoosiers.

 

[Dirzzit]

Well he was a dick, but he's kinda right. "Nerds" put her on a pedastel because she's "into" video games and doesn't have any major appearance flaws.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

Oh really? Because when I saw the first Jim Sterling or a Yahtzee video I didn't know anything about him? They are just some guy on the internet they could tell you anything. For all you know they could just be looking stuff up on google! They could be just getting someone else to write the reviews!!! (Being sarcastic obviously)

Felicia Day has made it clear she is a gamer so the only problem is whether you believe her or not and clearly you don't just because she happens to have boobs.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

To me, they are. Most Let's Players and show creators especially. For instance, unless someone can tell me what Michael Shanks does, he just made a good geeky show. Nothing more.

Well, if we ignore the premise that her show about gaming doesn't actually add anything to gaming (Which is wrong btw, but there is an easier way to deconstruct this argument), she is in fact "Adding to any specific game" because she is in fact a voice actor for multiple games.

But the voice acting came BECAUSE of her fandom videos. Not before. She didn't WANT to be a voice-actor. They just thought it'd be a cool cameo because she's everywhere and gets worshiped yet does nothing.

Except, you know, act, and write an entire web series and such.

Here's a question. Why does she HAVE to prove any kind of True Gamer Cred to anyone? Would it be so wrong if her perceived geekiness were just a foot in the door to an acting career? What damage would be done? This isn't a church, or a political party, we don't need to look for wolves in sheep's clothing.

What kind of criteria does she need to produce? What business is it of Ryan Perez?

Seriously, the woman is being criticized for becoming famous within a specific subculture and using that niche to get work. The acting business is, in case you haven't noticed, RIDICULOUSLY competitive, and focusing on a niche to sell yourself is probably the least unethical way to get ahead in it short of being discovered at a laundromat.

Who cares about any of that? The question is, what has she done for gaming? Entertain fellow players. That's it. She doesn't need to be everywhere and worshiped and treated like "Well, if Felicia Day says it's wrong, then I'm going to complain too!" as the other person who responded to me post said.

SNIP

Besides what I said above, I'm honestly not going any deeper into responding to this. Getting a bunch of people to join a movement because they like a celebrity is idol worship bullcrap and is no different than blindly following a religion, and if you truly believe that it's worth it, you're slowing the medium's progression down and making it so we're going to have nothing but "safe" products as opposed to works of actual art.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Well, for the record, I don't go on Twitter and say "What has Extra X contributed to the world of film? Justify your existence!"

Also, voice acting is more performing than extra-ing. There's a significant difference. Just ask SAG.

Oh no, I don't agree with what the guy did, I just don't think what he said would or should have any impact on anyone, maybe Felicia could feel a bit hurt about the thing and sure being fired from Destructoid is fine, that's all his stupid fault but our outrage is ridiculous

and some extras have voices, and a lot of work, it all depends on the scope but I don't think she's done much at all for gaming except get a lot of fans for doing very little

Also The Guild doesn't contribute to gaming, it's ABOUT gaming but only as a plot device, that's like saying a drama about a fictional football team contributes to the sport.

But doesn't it? I mean, I'm fairly sure a lot of basketball coaches have taken just the slightest bit of inspiration from Gene Hackman in Hoosiers.

I don't think so, maybe a few people can take something from it but honestly, that impact lessens even more in The Guild's case unless any MMOs have been made or changed entrely because of a comment in a webseries

 

[V8 Ninja]

At face value I don't see much wrong in those statements. If he slightly reworded all of the statements I think he would be absolutely fine. However, judging from the rest of Ryan Perez's Twitter messages, I'm going to assume he didn't just forget to carefully craft his words to more accurately get his point across.

EDIT: Looking at the comments again, he's asking Felicia to justify her existence. Yeah, that's pretty dick-ish. However, I see the non-dick point under his comments.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

To me, they are. Most Let's Players and show creators especially. For instance, unless someone can tell me what Michael Shanks does, he just made a good geeky show. Nothing more.

Well, if we ignore the premise that her show about gaming doesn't actually add anything to gaming (Which is wrong btw, but there is an easier way to deconstruct this argument), she is in fact "Adding to any specific game" because she is in fact a voice actor for multiple games.

But the voice acting came BECAUSE of her fandom videos. Not before. She didn't WANT to be a voice-actor. They just thought it'd be a cool cameo because she's everywhere and gets worshiped yet does nothing.

Except, you know, act, and write an entire web series and such.

Here's a question. Why does she HAVE to prove any kind of True Gamer Cred to anyone? Would it be so wrong if her perceived geekiness were just a foot in the door to an acting career? What damage would be done? This isn't a church, or a political party, we don't need to look for wolves in sheep's clothing.

What kind of criteria does she need to produce? What business is it of Ryan Perez?

Seriously, the woman is being criticized for becoming famous within a specific subculture and using that niche to get work. The acting business is, in case you haven't noticed, RIDICULOUSLY competitive, and focusing on a niche to sell yourself is probably the least unethical way to get ahead in it short of being discovered at a laundromat.

Who cares about any of that? The question is, what has she done for gaming? Entertain fellow players. That's it. She doesn't need to be everywhere and worshiped and treated like "Well, if Felicia Day says it's wrong, then I'm going to complain too!" as the other person who responded to me post said.

So... if she doesn't need to justify herself, where does Ryan Perez get off demanding that she justify herself?

I don't idolize her or anything. She has been in some stuff that I thought was good. The reason I think Perez is being a total asshole here is not because of the specialness of Felicia Day but because that kind of shit doesn't fly when you do it to anyone. If it takes a legion of Twitter followers for an asshole to learn a lesson, well, so be it. I'm not going to cry about unfair treatment.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt.

Using a toe stubbing analogy, here's what happened:

1. A Destructroid intern stubs his toe.
2. ITT, some people say "that guy sure stubbed his toe!"
3. Also ITT, some people say "that guy didn't stub his toe! It doesn't count as toe stubbing unless there's blood everywhere!"

Still not sure I follow. Who's saying what.

It's more like, Ryan Perez-Hilton over there stubbed Felicia Day's toe, so then they... hit him in the face with a hockey stick. And the their privates are a big part of their discussion for little reason. Like, maybe Ryan Paris Hilton hates Felicia Day for her privates, or maybe he just said something dumb because that's what alcohol does. Makes people focus on private parts. What was I talking about again?

Okay, so with no analogies:

The point is not that discussing a particular sexist action retroactively prevents that action. The point is that discussing a particular sexist action allows us to determine what went wrong in this instance and what can be done in the future to avoid further such instances. This is true regardless of whether the sexist action in question could have theoretically been worse.

 

[TAdamson]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

So you're saying that anyone who isn't immediately identifiable as a "gamer" must "prove themselves" before talking about or working in games?

AND if that person doesn't meet your arbitrary, meaningless and completely opaque standards you or people like you are going to ask "questions".

 

[Elamdri]

Spoiler: SNIP

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

To me, they are. Most Let's Players and show creators especially. For instance, unless someone can tell me what Michael Shanks does, he just made a good geeky show. Nothing more.

Well, if we ignore the premise that her show about gaming doesn't actually add anything to gaming (Which is wrong btw, but there is an easier way to deconstruct this argument), she is in fact "Adding to any specific game" because she is in fact a voice actor for multiple games.

But the voice acting came BECAUSE of her fandom videos. Not before. She didn't WANT to be a voice-actor. They just thought it'd be a cool cameo because she's everywhere and gets worshiped yet does nothing.

Except, you know, act, and write an entire web series and such.

Here's a question. Why does she HAVE to prove any kind of True Gamer Cred to anyone? Would it be so wrong if her perceived geekiness were just a foot in the door to an acting career? What damage would be done? This isn't a church, or a political party, we don't need to look for wolves in sheep's clothing.

What kind of criteria does she need to produce? What business is it of Ryan Perez?

Seriously, the woman is being criticized for becoming famous within a specific subculture and using that niche to get work. The acting business is, in case you haven't noticed, RIDICULOUSLY competitive, and focusing on a niche to sell yourself is probably the least unethical way to get ahead in it short of being discovered at a laundromat.

Who cares about any of that? The question is, what has she done for gaming? Entertain fellow players. That's it. She doesn't need to be everywhere and worshiped and treated like "Well, if Felicia Day says it's wrong, then I'm going to complain too!" as the other person who responded to me post said.

SNIP

Besides what I said above, I'm honestly not going any deeper into responding to this. Getting a bunch of people to join a movement because they like a celebrity is idol worship bullcrap and is no different than blindly following a religion, and if you truly believe that it's worth it, you're slowing the medium's progression down and making it so we're going to have nothing but "safe" products as opposed to works of actual art.

I'm sorry but if you can't see how contributing to gaming culture enriches the medium of gaming itself, then my friend you cannot see the forest for the trees. As it stands, Felicia Day is a gaming celebrity and as such, she has a lot of power. She has the power to mobilize people. If you don't think that being able to mobilize people is important, go ask John McCain. He'll explain it to you.