The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

She isn't even that dolled up most of the time.

The assumption wasn't "she is a woman in gaming ergo can be nothing more than a booth babe"

It was "she is an attractive woman ergo she receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what she has done and is milking it"

Sex plays a part in the assumption, but it's not "sexist".

That still sounds sexist to me :/ The bottom line of her worth is 'she is an attractive woman' in that statement. It ignores any other worth she may have just based on her appearance and gender.

So yeah still sexist.

"Gabe Newell is a fat guy ergo he receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what he has done and is milking it"

Se how ridiculous that sounds. Because being a fat dude isn't the be all and end all of Gabe Newell.

 

[MatsVS]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

It was obviously sexist, and Destructoid made the right call in canning the ass-stain. That said, I will incorporate 'abortion-soup' in my repertoire of insults.

 

[Winthrop]

snip

She contributed a comedic satire about the medium (The Guild), stared in another (Legend of Niel), and has introduced me to boardgaming (Producer of Tabletop). Plus as you said she has a likable personality which shows that not all gamers are creepy nerds. She shows that some gamers are excitable, sweet, fun people. Seems like a lot to me.

Calling her a booth babe seems really rude and sexist. She is a woman who games and hosts a gaming blog. Why are none of the male gaming personalities considered booth babes? She doesn't sexualize herself at all or act slutty. She is just a funny energetic person who happens to be a woman involved in gaming.

Finally, what does it matter? What have I contributed to gaming? What have you contributed to gaming? What have any other blog hosts, reviewers, or commentators contributed to gaming? Nothing. At least she brings people into the medium.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Yeah, far be it to see anybody EVER being cruel to a man. Not like losing his job for a few dumbass comments, that'd never happen.

Yeah, because getting in hot water over sexist remarks is totally the same as being the target of sexist remarks, guise. (Like, seriously, did anyone call, for instance, Nathan Fillion a "glorified booth babe" for being in and helping to promote a Halo game?)

Prove it was sexist. He never said anything to women, he said it to Felicia Day. Last I checked, Felicia Day is not women.

So, in order for something to be sexist, it has to be directed against an entire gender as a whole, rather than just using gender, gender inequalities and other unpleasant things related to gender as a means to insult? OK then...

"HEY *****! GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND MAKE ME ANOTHER SANDWICH WHILE I MASTURBATE TO THE THOUGHT OF CHEATING ON YOU WITH YOUR SISTER YOU DUMB *****!"

That was me making derogatory comments to my girlfriend and putting her down based on her gender. But it's like, totally OK you guys, because I only said it to her, not all women. Last time I checked, ***** is not women, right fellas?

[sub]I didn't actually just say that stuff btw, just so we're clear[/sub]

 

[Kahunaburger]

I recall numerous forum posts complaining about people like Neil Patrick Harris and Will Wheaton not deserving big spots on E3 because of not really representing gaming, I'm not going to dig weeks back into every game tabloid's comments and forum posts to link you specific examples.

Not analogous. Notice how that sort of criticism didn't involve terminology like "glorified booth babe," and didn't involve raging at them for being visible in gaming at all.

 

[DoPo]

That's funny, when did I went into the so called "protectionist mode"? You just said something I thought was stupid, and I quote.

Which I take to mean that "Maybe he didn't google her because he forgot there was Google". And that somehow makes sense for a friggin' journalist. It doesn't, if you ask me, and I told you that.

Regarding first point: I never said you went into protectionist mode. I said many, or a mob to speak, did.

Actually, you did. And it was right there in the quote I had from you.

but the fact that you and many others went into protectionist mode

(emphasis mine)

It's not like you cannot read it if you scroll up, but I'm saving you the trouble. If you mean something else, write something else. Don't pretend that your words from before are irrelevant. You write words, they have defined meanings. I am not going to scry for your actual meaning because, put simply, I just can't.

Second: Google is a device used by the average person to find information told by people, sometimes journalists. Would you want a journalist to take his/her information from say,  Fox News, if he/she wants to talk about the economy? No. You would want that journalist to speak with economists themselves. Same with gaming. A journalist, even an intern, needs to speak to the source directly. Not use regurgitated tidbits from elsewhere. Yes, I may have worded my 'didn't realize google was there' in a stupid manner, but the somewhat underlining point I was trying to make was that Google is not a device that you readily tend to think about for something off the hand. If there's a dictionary by me, even when I'm on my computer, I find myself going to for the dictionary by memory instead of googling "Word Definition". Or I go to news sites firsthand instead of googling 'Something news'.

Mr. Perez may have had the thought to twitter Felicia personally, as per "journalistic integrity" that people expect from game journalists, and in his antagonistic manner, gave her that question.

I can't understand that. Again, we are speaking about a journalist. Somebody who should be able to do writing and some critical thinking. As far as I know, they aren't machines who just ask questions - they can also use other facts and sources. And IMDb and other stuff do exist - plaes where you're not getting opinions but facts. Person A did this and that. Are you implying that human cannot work off that to form a simple answer to "how person A has been useful?" Especially a human who is supposed to be able to?

Besides, it's not like Perez asked that because he was curious. I mean, if I ask somebody "are you stupid?", nobody who reads it would go "Oh, he is actually asking for a honest answer because he doesn't know". Perez didn't ask because he forgot what Google is or because he simply couldn't remember what Day did, it was just an outright attack. And you keep suggesting it may not have been.

 

[Eyelicker]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

She isn't even that dolled up most of the time.

The assumption wasn't "she is a woman in gaming ergo can be nothing more than a booth babe"

It was "she is an attractive woman ergo she receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what she has done and is milking it"

Sex plays a part in the assumption, but it's not "sexist".

That still sounds sexist to me :/ The bottom line of her worth is 'she is an attractive woman' in that statement. It ignores any other worth she may have just based on her appearance and gender.

So yeah still sexist.

It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool. It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

 

[redmoretrout]

Who is Felicia Day? I did an IMDB search and she just seems to be an actress in a few B movies and a voice actress in a few games.

 

[Right Hook]

But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

I tend to agree with his statement, at least from what I know of her. He's still out of line because she shouldn't have to, a lot of people get into cozy position simply from the way they look or act and while that might be annoying for some of the more hard workers out there, it doesn't make what they did any less valid. As long as there is a fanbase for this sort of thing, why wouldn't you go for it? Besides what has this guy done that is so special anyway, it just sounds like a case of jealousy to me. He shouldn't have been fired for what he said, people should be allowed to express their opinions but I believe his opinion is not really solid in any way. Never liked Day, don't know what it is about her, she just gets on my nerves.

 

[Macgyvercas]

She did "The Guild". She automatically gets a lifetime supply of free passes.

 

[Zeraki]

The guy was being completely unprofessional(and a prick), and Destructoid rightfully didn't want to be associated with him. It's as simple as that. By acting the way he did--even if it was on his "Personal" Twitter account--he was still a part of the company and therefore made them look bad by association.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

She isn't even that dolled up most of the time.

The assumption wasn't "she is a woman in gaming ergo can be nothing more than a booth babe"

It was "she is an attractive woman ergo she receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what she has done and is milking it"

Sex plays a part in the assumption, but it's not "sexist".

That still sounds sexist to me :/ The bottom line of her worth is 'she is an attractive woman' in that statement. It ignores any other worth she may have just based on her appearance and gender.

So yeah still sexist.

It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool. It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

Yeah but it's the assumption that it's the only reason why she is popular or that she exists in gaming that is the problem.

Rather than the fact she is talented, likable, a good representative for real female gamers and she knows what she is talking about.

His very assumption that because she is a woman she is some vacuous booth babe there to exploit guys is sexist.

If a guy said to me 'The only reason you have a job writing with that gaming website is because you are an attractive woman' I would take that as monstrously sexist. (and then get his eyes checked).

 

[Woodsey]

His Twitter account seems completely open, so I don't think there's much room to claim it was a private opinion.

Would I have fired him? Probably not, but he wouldn't go without some sort of punishment. However, since his job is to interact with members of the industry, and since he's now made himself look like someone incapable of doing that and made them look like they can't hire someone who can do so professionally, it does reflect poorly on them.

You'll notice most other gaming journalists exhibit a degree of professionalism, even if it's clear they think someone is irrelevant/stupid/a twat/whatever else.

They don't just walk up to people (figuratively) and demand they justify their own existence.

I do, however, think the rather high-profile reaction has somewhat overdone it.

Also: Adam Baldwin is fucking insane. You think Casey on Chuck is a bit of a right-wing stereotype? Wait until you read that guy's Twitter.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Felicia Day is obnoxious.

Felicia Day is a no one that made a web series and gained notoriety from it. Had people not found her attractive she wouldn't have been given the opportunities to be prominent in the gaming community. Opportunities she gladly accepted, let's be frank, she whored herself out when ever possible.

She has ridden the "girl gamer" train for all its worth, all while demonstrating no more than a loose knowledge of gaming which could be acquired via 2 minutes on Google.

So yeah, if she's asked "aren't you just a glorified booth babe?", it's a fair question. It'd be akin to asking an actual booth babe "Aren't you only at E3 because people think you're hot?".

 

[InsanityRequiem]

It's not like you cannot read it if you scroll up, but I'm saving you the trouble. If you mean something else, write something else. Don't pretend that your words from before are irrelevant. You write words, they have defined meanings. I am not going to scry for your actual meaning because, put simply, I just can't.

I can't understand that. Again, we are speaking about a journalist. Somebody who should be able to do writing and some critical thinking. As far as I know, they aren't machines who just ask questions - they can also use other facts and sources. And IMDb and other stuff do exist - plaes where you're not getting opinions but facts. Person A did this and that. Are you implying that human cannot work off that to form a simple answer to "how person A has been useful?" Especially a human who is supposed to be able to?

Besides, it's not like Perez asked that because he was curious. I mean, if I ask somebody "are you stupid?", nobody who reads it would go "Oh, he is actually asking for a honest answer because he doesn't know". Perez didn't ask because he forgot what Google is or because he simply couldn't remember what Day did, it was just an outright attack. And you keep suggesting it may not have been.

Huh, I did type that. :\ My eyes and mind didn't catch that. I should not have put you in what I wrote and left it as mob of protectionists. Sorry.

But the second part is really an agree to disagree moment. Both by differences of opinions on journalism, and most likely miswriting what I meant.

Though separate from that, I do wonder how everyone would react if Mr. Perez was actually a Ms/Mrs. Perez. Would people be responding in the same manner if it was a woman intern journalist tweeting Felicia Day these questions? I feel like not. It'd be something swept under the rug and forgotten about.

 

[Risingblade]

Well she did voice that elf chick in the DA2 dlc aside from that who cares?

 

[Vault101]

the only thing I know about her is that she was Veronica from Fallout NV, however this comment does seem kind of gender skewed

 

[Seneschal]

She's an ACTRESS. I suppose Ryan Douchebag only considers something a valid contribution if you must hold a gamepad or mouse for it to work. Gaming is not the only medium out there, and not the only area of interest to many of us. Gaming is but a small facet of culture, and it pains me to have to reiterate that.

Is it normal to call out people because they don't contribute to something that's out of their field of expertise? Must Felicia learn to code to impress gamers? Must George Clooney begin his drawing lessons, lest he disappoints the comics industry? Must Oprah train to be a goalie, lest FIFA starts disapproving of her?

 

[runic knight]

I recall numerous forum posts complaining about people like Neil Patrick Harris and Will Wheaton not deserving big spots on E3 because of not really representing gaming, I'm not going to dig weeks back into every game tabloid's comments and forum posts to link you specific examples.

Not analogous. Notice how that sort of criticism didn't involve terminology like "glorified booth babe," and didn't involve raging at them for being visible in gaming at all.

Seems his beef is seeing her in gaming all over, not merely "at all". also, terminology was presented as "couldn't, since she is marketed for personality, she be considered a glorified booth babe (since they are marketed on looks). It seems less derogatory when looked at in context to the whole thing. More so, almost a complaint against the industry for giving her fame. he misses the point, sure, but shouldn't need to try and spin this as you appear to have.

 

[tensorproduct]

People who respond to sexism by putting their head in the sand, people who only speak out against sexism because they think it will get them laid, and people who act sexist are all perpetuating the problem in different ways. And, as you said, these attitudes are pretty endemic on gaming websites. AFAIK, the Escapist is one of the least bad ones for this.

Oh Jesus. That is embarrassing.