The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[mindlesspuppet]

So

snip...


Think of Danica Patrick, she rages about not being taken seriously as a driver because she's female... and then she does another Godaddy commercial naked or another FHM spread. Felicia doesn't whore herself out to that extent, but she does absolutely nothing to dispel many of the beliefs of females in gaming culture, quite the opposite.

I don't see anything she has done has problematic for females in gaming culture. She has certainly not licked any controllers or acted in a provocative manner.

"Felicia doesn't whore herself out to that extent"

You imply she whores herself out but all I see is a pretty girl with a whole lot of quirky charm who likes to star in a web series and occasionally plays video games. I never thought that was offensive. I think you got her confused with Jessica Chobot or Olivia Munn.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.380550.14960195

Read that post, it's well written and summed up perfectly.

 

[him over there]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Yeah, far be it to see anybody EVER being cruel to a man. Not like losing his job for a few dumbass comments, that'd never happen.

Yeah, because getting in hot water over sexist remarks is totally the same as being the target of sexist remarks, guise. (Like, seriously, did anyone call, for instance, Nathan Fillion a "glorified booth babe" for being in and helping to promote a Halo game?)

Prove it was sexist.

"Why is this woman visible in this industry? Is it just because people find her attractive?" is pretty textbook, and not just for video games.

How about Nolan North? He's pretty visible as a voice actor & is involved in the promotion of games he's in. People apparently find him attractive. Does he ever get shit being an attractive person of his sex participating in the industry?

He's not in hot water because of his gender, it's because of the gender of the person he's speaking to.

Or, more specifically, for making a specific kind of gendered attack that is pretty much only ever used against women. If he wanted to critique marketing strategies that hinge on participation of celebs people find attractive, that's a critique he could have made in a much better way than going after a specific actress as a "glorified booth babe."

The gender attack is used because of the gender inequality that allows it to be prevalent. The fact that we even have "booth babes" says a lot about our industry. No Nolan North doesn't get shit even though he's attractive, but he isn't part of the gender that is constantly exploited for titillation within the industry. The fact is that the unfair way we treat women in the industry opens up an opportunity for them to counter exploit it for publicity.

 

[tyriless]

So

snip...



"Felicia doesn't whore herself out to that extent"

You imply she whores herself out but all I see is a pretty girl with a whole lot of quirky charm who likes to star in a web series and occasionally plays video games. I never thought that was offensive. I think you got her confused with Jessica Chobot or Olivia Munn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNyg1ftMIU

So where's that argument round about now?

You wanted an example of her using her sex appeal to market herself, I gave you an example. Suddenly I'm some sort of religious fanatic. White knight logic, man.

I was teasing your complete and utter lack of a sense of humor and your ability to completely miss the point of the video. No, I don't think you're some religious nut-job but it was still fun to compare you to one.

However, you take a video that makes fun of cybersex (that has been parodied on "The Guild" numerous time) and claim it as proof-positive of that Felecia Day is whoring herself out. Did you find the video funny at all? If you did, then congratulations, that was the entire point.

 

[J. Mazarin]

snip

My favorite English teacher once told me that if in casual conversation you can't condense your opinion in a succinct, digestible manner, it's probably not worth sharing in the first place.

Look, I pretty much get what you're saying, but you wrote a nearly ONE THOUSAND WORD response to my 137 word post. If you want to have any kind of debate, I'm going to have to ask that you not resort to the "wall of text" tactic.

Let's try it again:

He was an intern at Destructoid. He posted stupid, arrogant, conceited shit in public that he shouldn't have. Said shit attracted a heavy amount of negative attention towards him and by extension, his employer Destructoid. His employer rightfully fired him as a result. Hopefully, he's learned his lesson.

Thoughts?

That he got fired because he hurt someones feelings?

lol

+50 points for missing my point. Also, I believe Felicia herself said it didn't bother her, so there's that

Boo fucking hoo, it's no secret that many people think Felicia Day is only so famous because OMG IT'S AN ATTRACTIVE GIRL THAT PLAYS GAMES, THIS VALIDATES MY HOBBY. Asking her about this (seriously, read how he phrased it) should not have got him fired.

He wasn't fired for asking her about this. He was fired for being a dick about it.

Example:

@FeliciaDay "Hey, Felicia. There's a lot of people in the gaming community who think you're only where you are today because of your looks, and that you haven't contributed anything to the gaming community. What would you have to say to these people?"

That would have been a perfectly valid way of asking her the question at hand, and likely wouldn't have generated any form of measurable controversy. Instead, the "could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don't seem to add anything creative to the medium." is what got him in trouble.

Why is Jim Sterling allowed to get away with the shit he says about people on this very website, yet as soon as someone criticises a woman everyone goes full white knight?

wat

Were you not here for the massive amounts of Hepler criticism last year after DA2 came out?

 

[Lyri]

Recently Destructoid writer Ryan Perez made a couple comments about Felicia Day on his Twitter account

''Ryan?s questions to Felicia were as follows: ?I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides ?personality?? could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don?t seem to add anything creative to the medium.?''

Following total uproar Ryan was pressured into resigning from his position with Destructoid as D-toid issued apologies to Miss Day. Other figures such as Adam Baldwin and Wil Wheaton have come out in support of Felicia. But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

While some of his comments could be interpreted as insulting he made a valid point that much of the gaming community has echoed previously. And besides that,it was his private Twitter which was in no way associated with D-toid and he never claimed he spoke for D-toid. People now flock to his Twitter, calling him ''sick'' and a ''misogynist'' (the latter is quite confusing as he never made any comment that was anti-woman,simply anti-Day). Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

He represents D-toid so his opinion will be scrutinized, you don't get to keep your job anywhere if you go out and act like a total douchebag in public.
So he probably will get fired for it, especially when attacks one of the more well loved celebrities of our culture.

However I do agree with him, I have never really liked Felicia Day and the fandom she's gained. Personally I think people just latch onto her pretty face and the fact she's a girl, she kind of gets both votes of the male demographic and female gamers.

She hasn't actually done anything for gaming but her projects have a gaming attachment to them and so gets pulled into the industry from fandom.
I kind of wish she would go away to be honest,I do not find her particularly good at her craft.

 

[J. Mazarin]

Well looks like I'm gonna have to be the bigger man in this conversation and say good day. If all you can do is take the time to insult me and question my intelligence and assign a negative tone to my post then it is clear that having a conversation with you is destructive instead of constructive.

I never insulted you. You threw a giant hissy fit after I told you to make your points a reasonable length. Also, you straight-up called my favorite english teacher a "fool" because you don't understand the meaning of the word "casual". Not very cool of you.

I won't be responding to any more of your posts because it is clear your attitude is too egocentric and you hold your opinion to be more important than the actual conversation we were having where I earnestly shared my thoughts, and feelings in a most sincere manner.

lol

"earnestly"

"sincere"

"I like discussing the bigger picture. If you wanna discuss the smaller stuff and go with the whole "I'm right, you are wrong" bullshit that most of these topics when words like sexism get thrown around like pennies in a fountain then I'm afraid I'm not interested in having that discussion and would say good day to you."

*paraphrased*

"If you don't want to talk about what I want to talk about you're a self-righteous douchebag and I don't want to talk to you."

Enjoy the report and have a nice day.

I didn't do anything wrong.

Also, there is a reason why us old guard don't respond much to the rookies.

Wow, you called ME egocentric? According to you, one's worth is measured by post count and join date! Yeah, that's a real inclusive attitude to have.

The thing that did make the Escapist great was that we understood that a healthy forum required long discussion where one could ask questions and elaborate on one's ideas which is why we have such content like Yahtzee. Zero Punctuation was funny because it was long winded as it was the style of the people who posted here.

Blah blah blah "everything was better before you got here". Heard it before. I've been reading the forums since 2007 when Yahtzee first arrived, so your comment here is irrelevant.

 

[Mr. Omega]

Perez was in a job that had him using Twitter regularly. He used said Twitter in an unprofessional manner to be hostile to someone, and as a bonus it was in a way that is almost impossible to not be seen as sexist. Doing so made him, and by extension, his employer, look bad. The employer decided that since he was just an intern and was making a total ass of himself, he was expendable.

Provocation (being an asshole), lack of job security and no reputation (being an intern), and motivation for the employer to fire him (don't want to be associated with him). This happens all the fucking time to bigger people for smaller reasons. I see no problem with what happened.

When your profession has you using twitter regularly, you either make a separate personal account or you learn when to keep your fingers away from the keyboard.

 

[Sean Wagner]

I think the greatest part of all of this is when Perez's boss asked him what he was contributing to journalism.

Apparently not enough.

Sweet Irony.

 

[bat32391]

So, the guy acted like an asshat and got fired for being an asshat it what it seems to be. No real surprise there. But what's up with the huge ass debate on whether or not Felicia Day is an actual gamer/ taking advantage of the industry to make herself more popular?

 

[secretsantaone]

I was teasing your complete and utter lack of a sense of humor and your ability to completely miss the point of the video. No, I don't think you're some religious nut-job but it was still fun to compare you to one.

However, you take a video that makes fun of cybersex (that has been parodied on "The Guild" numerous time) and claim it as proof-positive of that Felecia Day is whoring herself out. Did you find the video funny at all? If you did, then congratulations, that was the entire point.

Sure, I got the joke in the video.

Does it change the fact that she's using her body to get attention?

Nope.

snip

My favorite English teacher once told me that if in casual conversation you can't condense your opinion in a succinct, digestible manner, it's probably not worth sharing in the first place.

Look, I pretty much get what you're saying, but you wrote a nearly ONE THOUSAND WORD response to my 137 word post. If you want to have any kind of debate, I'm going to have to ask that you not resort to the "wall of text" tactic.

Let's try it again:

He was an intern at Destructoid. He posted stupid, arrogant, conceited shit in public that he shouldn't have. Said shit attracted a heavy amount of negative attention towards him and by extension, his employer Destructoid. His employer rightfully fired him as a result. Hopefully, he's learned his lesson.

Thoughts?

That he got fired because he hurt someones feelings?

lol

+50 points for missing my point. Also, I believe Felicia herself said it didn't bother her, so there's that

Boo fucking hoo, it's no secret that many people think Felicia Day is only so famous because OMG IT'S AN ATTRACTIVE GIRL THAT PLAYS GAMES, THIS VALIDATES MY HOBBY. Asking her about this (seriously, read how he phrased it) should not have got him fired.

He wasn't fired for asking her about this. He was fired for being a dick about it.

Example:

@FeliciaDay "Hey, Felicia. There's a lot of people in the gaming community who think you're only where you are today because of your looks, and that you haven't contributed anything to the gaming community. What would you have to say to these people?"

That would have been a perfectly valid way of asking her the question at hand, and likely wouldn't have generated any form of measurable controversy. Instead, the "could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don't seem to add anything creative to the medium." is what got him in trouble.

Why is Jim Sterling allowed to get away with the shit he says about people on this very website, yet as soon as someone criticises a woman everyone goes full white knight?

wat

Were you not here for the massive amounts of Hepler criticism last year after DA2 came out?

And yet she wanted an apology. Fancy that.

If she was perfectly fine with it, then why was there a controversy in the first place? People getting offended on her behalf?

Jim Sterling spreads shit on a regular basis, for example, he previously referied to feminists as 'feminazis'. Just because he defended Hepler against some trolls (even thought that had nothing to do with the real issue), doesn't wipe his slate clean.

Most gaming websites thrive of controversy, that's where they get the ad revenue from. That's why you'll frequently see misleading headlines on the escapist and deliberately controversial opinions on Kotaku. This whole debacle is massively hypocritical, especially after Destructiod previously hired Sterling to do the exact same thing, just on a broader basis.

 

[tyriless]

Well, here goes (and without trying to be sexist, though I'm certain some clowns will come screaming that anyway):

She's a attractive young woman who is socially talented, relatively well connected and has given gamers some kind of "acceptability" cred by doing the whole, "look, I game!" thing. It started off, I'm sure, with great intentions. The shows first season was cute, filled with a bunch of "huh, that's actually true" moments, but later has gone the way one could fully have expected: Team Unicorn posing nude and provocatively surrounded by gaming gear, Felicia's two music videos that have focused on her more feminine assets, the Dragon Age character and show, also not exactly hiding the whole "pretty girl, omg!" bits.

Now, I'm not saying that a beautiful woman can't be a gamer or a gaming "icon", whatever the hell that even means anymore, but I am saying that this pedestal gamers have built for her and put her on is a reaction not to anything significant that she's done, but more owing to the fact that, yes, she is a beautiful lady actress who likes what we do. It is a different case from having someone like Will Wheaton do the same thing, we KNOW men like this stuff. Or do you think that it's been just an accident that the Guild show plays up the sexuality of Day, Amy Okuda or Michelle Boyd, while delegating actress Robin Thorsen to the "ditzy, vapid silly person" part?

I got a soft spot for redheads. Hell, I married one. I will be the first to admit that I find Felecia Day to attractive, but I doubt I would have any interest in "The Guild" if she lacked her quirky charm. She's funny and she's plays the role of the adorable and hopeless geek well. It's one of the few things she really is good at.

As far as the use of her sex appeal as promotion "Date My Avatar" shouldn't be faulted because her costume, the soft focus, and double entendres all go to the service of humor rather than titillation. It's a pretty funny video. Her Dragon Age II cameo and web series does put her in a fairly sexy costume, but nothing nearly as bad as what you find in the game already. Her biggest crime in that is she isn't that convincing as a bad ass assassin elf.

 

[Yarkaz]

Why does this guy think Felicia is obligated to do something for gaming? She did The Guild. It was funny and I liked it. She was in Dr. Horrible's, and that was great too. That's what she's known and loved for, not for any involvement in an actual video game. Perez needs to get his head out of his arse and realize that not everything in nerd/geek culture revolves around video games.
I don't blame Destructoid for forcing the guy out, if I ran a company I wouldn't want it to be associated with him either. He's just being arrogant. And stupid.

And arrogant.

 

[an874]

Holy shit, first Spoony leaving TGWTG, now this. What the hell is going on these days?

OT: This guy was a dick to well liked, well known figure in geek culture, and the people he worked with no longer wanted to be associated with him (not solely on moral grounds since I doubt a story like this is good for DTOID's reputation and site traffic), end of story. This is all about his bad judgement, and how he now has to pay for it.

 

[Rack]

She wrote The Guild, which is a thousand times more than he will ever contribute to gaming. Destructoid didn't show nearly as good judgement in letting him go as they showed bad judgement for hiring him in the first place but it's something.

 

[Vault101]

That's precisely what I'm saying. And it isn't a "maybe". It is a legitimate question, end of story.

but is it always a fair question?

[quote/]Also, once more, what does it matter that some random dude is being a dick? Do you always flip your shit when some random person is acting like a dick? [/quote]
I don't know how your reading things on your end but I am not "flipping my shit" I'm just giving my opinion here, and my opinion was this guy was an ass

[quote/]We both know that this isn't the reason you are posting here, especially not the reason you are posting the way you are posting, so what's with the pretending? It's rather obvious that for you this is very much a "Girls in Gaming"-Issue. You don't seriously think you are bullshiting me here, do you?[/quote]
whats with all thease assumptions your making? what does that accomplish?

heres why I'm posting

1.the guy was a dick
2.I feel that there is a slight "issue" with females in the gaming comunity and this guys post "may" reflect that somwhat


[quote/]
First of all, you really suck at sarcasm, I wouldn't recommend you using it.[/quote]
you hurt my feelings...

[quote/]Secondly, the guy had around 50 Followers before this particular shit hit the fan, now he's going on 2500. See what I'm getting at? No? Here, let me explain it:

You obviously do not like what this guy said or how he acted, you are giving him attention, that calls even more attention to him, this gathers clicks, sites enjoy having clicks because of Ad Revenue, so, by giving him this attention you are making it possible for him to build a persona of "that Dick" and "that Dick" could very well find himself in the position as a meaningful writer. Obviously that's not in your interest, so you shouldn't be helping to make that possible.[/quote]

geez, you acting like I want this guy to burn in hell..I don't care, I think what happned to him was a little harsh, and its a sad example of why you think before you post on twitter


[quote/]
I know, your motivation is "Oh woe is me, the female gamer." [/quote]
I think there are issues surrounding sexism and such...that doesnt make me a femninazi or give me a victm complex
[quote/]
You are not in the position to mock me.[/quote]

I'm here, at my keyboard...so actually I am

[quote/]You don't have to, your behavior speaks volumes.[/quote]

assumptions about my emotional state based on my posts...you can't really prove much there..

[quote/]No, I wouldn't tell them to fuck off, otherwise I would have long since told you to fuck off for questioning me in the first place. I'm not that childish. I may wonder what was riding the person, but I'm smarter then simply telling someone to fuck off, I'd give a honest answer in such a way to make him look like a fool. Far more satisfying.[/quote]
or that, the point was you know he's insulting you, not hard to see


[quote/]Yes, we should question the reals and the fakes,
but you should always question marketing and people as to not get screwed over. All I was actually getting at their however was once more that his statement, that a person could be a "big personality" in gaming and essentially be little more then a glorified booth babe isn't wrong by default, it may be wrong about Day, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong about everyone.
[/quote]

some peoples veiws of "reals" and "fakes" can vary.....

 

[dementis]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Yeah, far be it to see anybody EVER being cruel to a man. Not like losing his job for a few dumbass comments, that'd never happen.

Yeah, because getting in hot water over sexist remarks is totally the same as being the target of sexist remarks, guise. (Like, seriously, did anyone call, for instance, Nathan Fillion a "glorified booth babe" for being in and helping to promote a Halo game?)

I really want to see Nathan Fillion as a booth babe now. All you need to see to know that's a great idea is to watch the "trash" episode of Firefly.

 

[tyriless]

Sure, I got the joke in the video.

Does it change the fact that she's using her body to get attention?

Nope.
[/quote]

You see a goofy video and claim, "She's whoring herself out!" when really you are putting up a straw man argument.

You get the joke, but you fault her for glamming up in service of the joke. You completely overlook the tone of the whole production so you can scrape up evidence that she wants to sexually entice young men into putting her into every game, movie, and web series they consume. There was nothing in this video that was gratuitous and I highly doubt it got attention because a slightly more attractive version of Felecia Day was in it.

Hey, if you got evidence to support your argument feel free to toss that up here. You just won't succeed with this one.