The Final Choice In Mass Effect 2 Is Horseshit: A Diatribe

[8bitlove2a03]

Since you obviously didn't play the first game (since you don't know why you should be opposed to Cerberus), you might not understand that Cerberus is basically the well-funded Al Qaeda of space. Giving them the technology doesn't necessarily mean they'll make a reaper, but it means that they'll have an advantage over every other race in the galaxy which they will inevitably use against them.

Furthermore, you should realize that paragon and renegade in this game are not good or evil. Rather, what they boil down to is unity and compassion vs. human imperialism and tough love. In this way, moral choices aren't the same, stale BS we've been playing in Bioware games since KotOR.

tl;dr paragon and renegade aren't plain good and evil and you need to play the first game to understand why Cerberus shouldn't be trusted with the tech.

 

[Andothul]

The two choices are really not that complex its either (Paragon) you think the technology would fall into the wrong hands, which it would, not to mention the blood on that station

or the Renegade which is essentially "The ends justify the means" which in my opinion is not the way to see things.

 

[gl1koz3]

Face it, Mass Effect has more holes than... anything. You (me) try to find logical explanations to everything, while all the fracken game is like "Alright, there's this ancient tech I don't know squat of, I'll just quickly hack in and get my readings from the black hole. Brb. *And he really gets back*."

It's a scientific slap in your (my) face. Very well made. But still a slap.

 

[Bellvedere]

Two reasons I can see why destroying it is the 'good' choice. One is that you're handing it over to Cerberus if you don't and two is that it's Reaper technology.

Cerberus is kinda shady to begin with. From any of the operations you see in the previous game it makes you doubt they have any sort of ethics (yes I know apparently they were rogue). The Illusive Man sort of hides what he wants out of the whole thing, seems like he was less interested in saving the galaxy and more interested in gaining Reaper technology. If he believes Sheppard he must have some sort of proof, he even knew about the collectors before that was confirmed to Sheppard's team. If he was so concerned about the fate of the galaxy wouldn't he be informing the council of the information he had? I don't trust them.

Then there's the whole Reaper tech thing. Given Sheppard's experience with anything that has been exposed to Reaper tech it's probably a good idea. Remember all the thousands of husks there's been in the two games already? Considering that the Mass Relays and the Citadel and pretty much anything they've ever been involved was has been a trap, I think NOT keeping the base is a pretty clever option.

Also there's the fact that I know it's a video game and presumably in the sequel my base destroying Sheppard will be able to defeat the Reapers. What I don't want is my Sheppard in cahoots with Cerberus when they do something incredibly evil. If they do something good my Sheppard will say sorry and we'll all move on.

That's how I rationalised it anyway

 

[crudus]

Spoilers ahoy, obviously.

On a 1-week rental I managed to play 22 hours of Mass Effect 2. That's 1,320 minutes and about 1,305 of those minutes were pure unadulterated fun. The first five minutes had me scratching my head and wonder why I should be opposed to Cerberus as I had no idea who they were. Then I had 1,300 or so minutes of fun then I reached the end of the game.

Firstly, I fought the ridiculous boss (who I will cover in another post because I can not comprehend why a supremely powerful, cold, uncaring machine race would want to make a human reaper to punch spaceships) with ease through a series of Collector Particle Beam shots and sniper rounds to the face, then I came to the final decision:

Spoiler: The First Decision

Blow up the entire ship because Shepard "Won't sacrifice who s/he is."

This choice is ridiculous, in my opinion. Studying enemy technology so that you can save the goddamn galaxy doesn't require 'sacrificing' who you are. Not studying technology because someone evil used it and it has caused death borders on Dark Ages-esque superstition. Also, there are still Reapers out there so by destroying this and letting nothing good come you are exactly where you were when you started the game. Or, more accurately, ended the first game.

Yet the Bioware writers decided this must be the correct Paragon(read:good) choice and only a strictly Renegade character would not choose it.

Spoiler: The Second Choice

Research and learn from the ship.

The correct choice in my opinion.

As I said, the Reapers did not magically vanish, they are STILL out there. Examining this and hopefully finding a weak-point could be the only chance to truly defeat the Reapers. The main down-side is that Cerberus could use this to make another Reaper, which is virtually a non-problem. Firstly, it is not a simple process, to build the 'human-reaper larva'(ugh) and it would take time to build one. Secondly, Shepard has already defeated one reaper in Mass Effect 1 and destroyed a 'larval(uggghhhh) about 2 minutes ago, without losing anyone on his supposed Suicide Mission. Shepard and co. have proved they can handle 1 Reaper.

I chose this option based on what I've typed above and even Legion (who is my favorite character as he is the only one that seems to never hold the idiot ball) said "This facility is simply data, Shepard-Commander. It has no inherent ethics."
I agree entirely.

But yet this is the supremely evil choice. After you do this every member of your party will disagree and chastise you. Even the murderous convict with tatoos from tit to ass. Even the blood-thirsty Krogan Clone. Even the assassin-for-hire.Even the CERBERUS OPERATIVE.

Because you are inherently evil for studying a way to beat the enemy, even when you could blow up the station at any time should something go wrong.

As if.

The most irritating part is that isn't the black and grey morality you see elsewhere in the game that leads to hard decisions. This isn't even a Black and White/Paragon and Renegade decision. This is a logical/illogical choice. With the palettes switched.

Now tell me I'm right so I feel better about myself.

Spoiler: first of all

The mission is a suicide mission and all of your members can die or none of them can die depending on what you do in the game. In my game only Shane died. In my friend's game Jack, Miranda, and the black guy died(He reminded me of Kaiden too much so I never talked to him thus never learned his name). In my opinion it should have been random rather than your choices affecting it.

Second of all, I have always harped about how there is no double axis in morality systems like their should be. In Mass Effect 2 I tried to play as three dimensional character as I could. I tried to play Lawful Good. She quite literally hated everyone around her except her crew and about 5 NPCs. This lead to a weird balance where I missed out on a lot of the persuasion and intimidation that would have made my experience better. Basically I chose all the renegade options with NPCs and all the paragon options with my crew.

Spoiler: third

So basically this is like saying "hey Rebels, do you want to destroy the Death Star or keep and and go joy riding? Empire has been using it to keep their rule over you. Want to turn the tables?" Rebels would want to blow it up because it is too much power for anyone to have. That is the direction that moral choice went. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Internet Kraken]

and you need to play the first game to understand why Cerberus shouldn't be trusted with the tech.

No you don't. The most convincing piece of evidence for why Cerberus is both incompetent and evil is the Pragia facility, which is pretty much a required location to visit in the second game. The first game really just shows you some more stupid and morally questionable experiments made by Cerberus.

imo there should have been a third option to let the counsel study the reaper tech instead of cerberus

I don't get why people say this. There is no way for the Council to get to the base before Cerberus. It's in the middle of the Terminus system, which they can't just barge into because it would cause war. If they somehow managed to gain access it would only be through months (more likely years) of negotiations with various political leaders in the Terminus, many of which will probably be overthrown and replaced during this time, making the whole thing take even longer. So if they did miraculously get to the base, Cerberus will have already taken it. This is all assuming the Council even listens to Shepard, since they have so far proved to be perfectly willing to sweep all logic and sense under the rug when you are involved.

 

[Awake-]

The thing is, I didn't think such an advanced base would be safe in TIM's hands.

 

[NJ]

The entire ending had me going "Wait, the fuck do you want me to do?!"...

Spoiler: Yeah, spoilers... Yay eh? Whoopy.

I chose the... logical illogical and decided to blow the fucker into kingdom come and be done with it. Martin Sheen hated my guts, Collector base was gone and whatnot. I figured given how black and white my choices were, I'd replay it all for the sake of the keep all party members alive achievement and went with 'keeping it alive'...

To satisfy Dr. Apocalypse now.

Now my entire crew, which I worked by ass off to save, hates me!

Wuuuut?

Had to let that out.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Yeah I agree 100%. Though there is one thing to say against leaving the Collector base intact: It's based on Reaper tech, and from exploring the dead Reaper (and Sovereign in the previous game) you know what Reaper tech does with people trying to mess with it. Still, the chance to learn more about a super-powerful enemy you know nothing about as well as gain what is potentially a powerful weapon and a safe base of operations is just too big a chance to pass up.

It's really stupid how suddenly everyone is like "That was a really stupid choice Shepard!" and the ending implies Cerberus is going to abuse the crap out of it. Ideally, there should have been a third option, like giving the base to the Council or the Alliance. After all, you're the only one who can reach the base (since you're the only one in the galaxy with a Reaper IFF), so it's not like Cerberus can force you to give it to them.

Either way, I didn't blow it up on my 'final' playthrough (the one I'll import into ME3). Maybe it'll end up a cool side-mission or something.

What the hell is Sovereign? Im glad someone finally addressed the question. If all reapers are based on an organism that sovereign squid thing was weird as. I think that they take the most promising race and collect it into a hivemind by which they become a higher form of life or "multiple platforms" as legion puts it. Protheans was no contest but the humans and the other species squabbled and faught for dominance, a councel being the least usefull thing to decide which species is strongest. Would soveriegn not have used the turians? He did select one as his representative and at the end his avatar.

I think Saren was chosen just because he was convenient. He was a top-ranking Spectre, so he was a great asset to Sovereign's cause regardless of his species, especially in the events leading up to the game where Sovereign hadn't revealed himself yet. It's not impossible that the Reapers didn't settle on what race to choose for their next target until after ME1. After all, Sovereign was stopped by a Human Spectre and a Human fleet. Without the Humans the Citadel would have fallen and all of the galaxy with it, so it's not entirely illogical for the Reapers to judge the Humans most worthy of "ascension".

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

You're right, it is horseshit when you look at it logically, But if you try to put yourself in the characters' shoes, you'd want to destroy the facility too. After going through so much shit and traipsing all over the universe they want some conclusion and if Shephard doesn't destroy the facility then it's like he's spitting in their faces after all of their dedication and hard work.

 

[Irridium]

There is a very similar forum post on the ME website and might as well post the similar response here. It is true that if we "do" get the base to function for us, we could use the tech against the reapers. But to me there was TOO much of a risk to use it than there was to gain. Let me put in an example from District 9.
***************************************Spoiler**********************************************
In the movie, the main character tampered with an alien object and ended up transforming himself into the alien species.
****************************************Spoiler End*****************************************
What I am saying is this, if we "tampered" with Reaper tech, that is VERY well known to randomly produce Husks and brainwash mortals what do you think I would believe a fully functional Reaper tampered base would do to ANY alien species? I did not see it as "loosing myself", I saw it as "I have seen what this tech has done to MULTIPLE people. I am not going to give this tech to have an advanced/special ops organization get brainwashed by Reapers."

P.S. I have no idea how to hide spoilers, so if anyone could give me advice I would be happy.

For spoilers use (spoiler)(/spoiler) only instead of parenthesis use brackets.

Also, there is one flaw in your argument. Shepard has Legion on his side, and could possibly get the Geth to help him research it. Since Legion himself said the Geth would be willing to fight against the Reapers. And logically you would want any advantage on your enemy that you can get, and since robots tend to think logically (Legion and EDI have helped further this argument through many discussions with them) Shepard could potentially get the Geth to help research the base.

Plus you have EDI and VI's that could be put onto the base to speed up research, keeping organics away. And you can't brainwash robots.

That way organics don't get corrupted, and we get research.

If you can't brainwash robots, where did the 'heretic' Geth come from? Since the the Geth were the Reaper's greatest ally in the first game, it seems a bit silly to suggest they can't be controlled (or at least persuaded) by the Reapers.

The 'heretic' Geth are also a very small percentage of the total Geth. And even then they weren't controlled, they just figured the Reaper solution was better than doing it themselves.

 

[gigastrike]

It makes sense to keep the facility at the time, because you want as many resources as you can get; but you need to consider what the Illuive Man might do with the station once the Reapers are gone. Just as Shepard would do anything to protect the galaxy, the Illusive Man would do anything to secure Human dominance over other races. If we were to leave control of the station to him, he would eventually try to create a Reaper (or something) that he would use to defeat all non-Human races.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

If you can't brainwash robots, where did the 'heretic' Geth come from? Since the the Geth were the Reaper's greatest ally in the first game, it seems a bit silly to suggest they can't be controlled (or at least persuaded) by the Reapers.

The 'heretic' Geth are also a very small percentage of the total Geth. And even then they weren't controlled, they just figured the Reaper solution was better than doing it themselves.

I would also point out that since you can AI hack a Geth for a limited duration, I see no reason why a race which is massively technologically superior to you couldn't sustain it for longer. Additionally, the heretic Geth built a 'virus' that would make all other Geth switch to their way of thinking. Why would the Reapers be incapable of such a feat? It seems like you're underestimating them.

 

[Krunkcity3000]

AI's can be "brainwashed" (probably easier than humans because they don't have emotions onr ideals to get in the way. They think whatever you program them to think.) so to say that u simply use AI's is just as dangerous. Think something like SKYNET.

 

[Fiend Dragon]

Personally, I think that this was a borderline GENIUS move on Bioware's part. They managed to force you to make a decision that is so deeply embedded in morals that most people instantly gravitate towards one option and think the other choice is stupid. Clearly seen above, they are strong arguments for either side, and if you logically compose all of the facts the game has given you both choices make perfect sense, but when people go to choose, their own morals come out instead of the ones they chose for their characters and you get your most instinctive view on the matter.


The Paragon viewpoint:

So basically this is like saying "hey Rebels, do you want to destroy the Death Star or keep and and go joy riding? Empire has been using it to keep their rule over you. Want to turn the tables?" Rebels would want to blow it up because it is too much power for anyone to have. That is the direction that moral choice went. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.]

What I am saying is this, if we "tampered" with Reaper tech, that is VERY well known to randomly produce Husks and brainwash mortals what do you think I would believe a fully functional Reaper tampered base would do to ANY alien species? I did not see it as "loosing myself", I saw it as "I have seen what this tech has done to MULTIPLE people. I am not going to give this tech to have an advanced/special ops organization get brainwashed by Reapers."

The Renegade Viewpoint

Blow up the entire ship because Shepard "Won't sacrifice who s/he is."

This choice is ridiculous, in my opinion. Studying enemy technology so that you can save the goddamn galaxy doesn't require 'sacrificing' who you are. Not studying technology because someone evil used it and it has caused death borders on Dark Ages-esque superstition. Also, there are still Reapers out there so by destroying this and letting nothing good come you are exactly where you were when you started the game. Or, more accurately, ended the first game.

Research and learn from the ship.

The correct choice in my opinion.

As I said, the Reapers did not magically vanish, they are STILL out there. Examining this and hopefully finding a weak-point could be the only chance to truly defeat the Reapers. The main down-side is that Cerberus could use this to make another Reaper, which is virtually a non-problem. Firstly, it is not a simple process, to build the 'human-reaper larva'(ugh) and it would take time to build one. Secondly, Shepard has already defeated one reaper in Mass Effect 1 and destroyed a 'larval(uggghhhh) about 2 minutes ago, without losing anyone on his supposed Suicide Mission. Shepard and co. have proved they can handle 1 Reaper.

I chose this option based on what I've typed above and even Legion said "This facility is simply data, Shepard-Commander. It has no inherent ethics."
I agree entirely.

Because you are inherently evil for studying a way to beat the enemy, even when you could blow up the station at any time should something go wrong.

 

[King Kupofried]

Did you happen to forget when the Illusive Man expresses his desire to use this technology to secure Human dominance in the Galaxy?
I guess I just don't see how handing over potentially the most advanced technology in the Galaxy over to an organization that decidedly withholds information from you for the sake of manipulating you, is concerned only with the Human agenda, that several characters express surprise that Cerberus was even working with Alien races, could possibly be any sort of intelligent course of action. Unless of course you are trying to make Humans rule as Renegade Shepard often does, then it is a totally awesome option.
I am fairly certain Shepard's comment about sacrificing who s/he is was more in the sense of "I'm not going to hand over this super sweet tech to a bunch of xenophobes who want Humans to rule."

 

[SirDerick]

You remember the reaper mission where you had to recover the iff? They though the thing was completely dead (And it was) and all the scientists working on it turned into husks.

Seriously though, I would have much preferred our team mates give emphasis on the fact that whoever was working on it might turn into a husk at any moment rather than the fact that Cerberus was "evil".