The Final Fantasy VII Remake is a Fantasy

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Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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They have all of the gameplay, abilities, locations, materia system, it's all there.

If it means this would take 40 years, than that means Square Enix is admitting that they will never make any game even ONE EIGHTH as expansive as FFVII since that would be five years (NOT counting all the FFVII work already done!

I'm not ok with that.

Also, the story may not take long, but balancing all of the combat so that nothing is overpowered and all the abilities work as they should takes a CRAPLOAD of time, every single enemy and balanced combat mechanic is already built.
 

Shadowflame66

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Feb 13, 2010
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This would all be a very good point if it weren't for several counter-points.

1. You don't have to make everything traversable. You could make an FFVII remake like Final Fantasy XIII with the corridors in everything but the open world, because that's how the original game was.

2. The cost would, more than likely, be -instead of- a new Final Fantasy game at the time, rather than in addition to, and it would be offset by the sales of the game.

3. Square is already set up for undertakings like this. You can say "Oh, Final Fantasy XIII took four years". But no, Final Fantasy XIII took four years while Square continued working on numerous other projects including a large-scale MMO in XIV and Versus XIII as well.

This is kind of a pointless article, but I guess I see that you're trying to set people straight or something. The truth remains that we all know a remake would not be some easy, simple job that's half done. No one's saying that.

But it's still a job Square could actually accomplish. Today's graphics may be really expensive, but Square's got a lot of money. It may take a ton of work, but Square's got a lot of people. And it may take a lot of time, but so does everything good that's worked on these days.

The fact remains that there's only one, in all of Square's long, long list of games, that millions of people are actually calling on them to remake, and regardless of such obstacles, it's a very valid possibility they'll revisit the option at some point.
 

FloodOne

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For.I.Am.Mad said:
You know had they started it when they first showed the tech demo they'd probably be almost done by now rather than just ***** about how impossible it is.

But it cost a lot of money wah wah wah. So did Avatar, to use the auther's example, and that made almost 3 billion greenbacks. And it sucked! Native American aliens, GTFO.
Fantastic post sir, I applaud it.

If I've said it before, a million times it seems, just remake it in the same vein as the FF III and IV DS titles, but make it for the PSP. Crisis Core proved that world can look really nice on the small screen. Other than that, don't change anything as far as the gameplay mechainics are concerned.

They should make Vincent and Yuffie required characters in the remake though, and that leaves the door open for an extra sidequest or two.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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So Square Enix is saying that they can't make big games anymore, because it would take this long?

That's insane, they just admitted that because of modern graphics, their games will never be 1/4 as big as Final Fantasy VII was, that's much more serious than just saying they won't make FFVII again.
 

RadicalDreamer90

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May 11, 2009
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At least Enix has a line >.<. Aye ya, Square died a long time ago, I don't think Enix needs to dable where they don't belong. They already made a load of mistakes in FF13, and they need to keep those in mind when releasing FF14 and Ff13 Versus, to stop from losing the fans they've gained over the years from previous ventures. As a fan of the series, I stopped playing when SquareSoft left the center stage and Squenix took up the throne. The kingdom won't ever be the same, but it doesn't mean things can't get better. Change isn't so bad, but back tracking just revitalizes past mistakes.
 

geldonyetich

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It seems Shamus has taken it upon himself to make a prediction about what can be done with technology.

Classic mistake.
 

Quaidis

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Jun 1, 2008
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A wee bit off topic: I bought Black Sigil a week ago and have been enjoying it thus far. The characters are very attachable and the story is interesting. My only gripe is that I'm literally getting attacked every two steps, and there was nothing in the manual that told me how to run from a battle - which I later learned was holding B for 10 to 30 seconds while the baddies beat the living tar out of me. Still, good game.

A wee bit on topic: I can see why they would not do a first-person-view setting of FF7 with a full 3d 360 degree view of the world. I don't even want them to. But aren't they thinking a little too hard into this impossible remake? While there is a vast difference between games, Monkey Island still updated its graphics. They didn't do impossible changes to the scenery or re-invent the wheel to do it. They took what was there, keeping the exact same game mechanics, and made it prettier, then added voices (albeit annoying voices). In fact, if FF7 just upgraded its original look in towns and made the same basic sprites prettier (I'm not talking full 3d models, just late-ps2-like sprites, without even adding voices, it would still profit a ton without breaking the bank. They don't even have to do that. They could just update all of the cutscenes to look prettier and I'm sure fans would be happy.

Instead they want to copy something like FFXIII and redo everything. That, in itself, would be impossible.
 

Mr. Win

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Jan 23, 2010
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tbh they should just release 7-9 on retail as Final Fantasy Last Games Most Fans Liked or something.
 

warmonkey

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Dec 2, 2009
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Crunchy English said:
Besides guys, Final Fantasy 4 better.
I.. you.. don't you mean 3(6)? I mean, yeah 4 was better than 7, but neither were the best of the series. 7 was a downgrade from 6 made pretty, and was just.. the story.. so vapid and trite. Then again I am on record as being vehemently opposed to crappy Japanese love story / triangle crap revolving around a number of androgynous smirking kids.

There was a pretty clear line of demarcation between 6 and 7 that marked the end of one type of FF game and the start of another. 7 was so successful because it was a primitive type -- still enough like the previous version of FF to have a decent (entertain. ish. at least. kinda.) story, but had a mad dash of the NEW type -- the shiny pretty graphics-uber-alles FF model that's been progressing along pretty well and without any surprises since 7.

Squareenix just keeps trying to shoot the moon graphically with every single new FF game. Set the bar a little lower, guys! If you're trying too hard, your best effort will always come out a little lacking because you were reaching too far above your ability (and time) and it only makes the rest of the game suffer. Which is basically what they're saying -- "We make our games so pretty that the rest of the game must suffer; we cannot make a game like FF7 again because we would spend too much time on its graphics!). They're the only ones saying that. Yes, if you are going to make the game in such-and-such manner you probably can say it'd take too long. So... don't make the game in such-and-such manner. Maybe, if everyone still thinks 7 was best, and under your current production procedure making such a game would be impossible... maybe fans and everyone would prefer if you'd change to be more like the previous title. If you want to go graphics crazy, make a movie! Wait. No. GET A GOOD SCRIPT, then make a movie. Then make a game that's not moulded as per the demands of graphics-creation, since people don't LIKE these games, and one more like 7. Or better yet more like 6. Megaman 9 seemed to do pretty well. There's a dearth of games with enjoyable gameplay and a glut of games that are little more than graphical showcases. Final Fantasy is exactly the type of game that could really show everyone that gameplay taking the front seat back from graphical fetishes actually can make an enjoyable game. I don't think gamers have forgotten that, but the big game houses seem to have no clue.
 

Crunchy English

Victim of a Savage Neck-bearding
Aug 20, 2008
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warmonkey said:
Crunchy English said:
Besides guys, Final Fantasy 4 better.
I.. you.. don't you mean 3(6)? snip
Nope, meant 4. Or 2, if you refuse to keep up with the times.

Also, jeez man, heck of a rant. Not that you're the only one. I find it hard to get that worked up over FF, its not only not the best JRPG series, its not even the best Square made. Well, maybe it is, depends on whether you call Chrono Trigger a series.
 

warmonkey

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Dec 2, 2009
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I always thought 6 was better than 4. ..at least they didn't go to the moon and have one party member get killed off and then immediately replaced by a different character model and name.. with all the same abilities.

The rant was less aimed directly at Final Fantasy and more at what it represents in general -- that graphics are the singular defining feature that all other aspects of the game must defer to. Final Fantasy started down that road in my opinion with 7 and has just continued pretty linearly from that point.. along with most the rest of the gaming industry I suppose. I think that's shitty, and I've got just over a decade of BAWW over it stored up. Honestly, I don't want to stare at a loading screen for 5 minutes just so I can look at some cutting-edge-but-still-crappy CG effects deliver some trite plot point that doesn't matter and I don't care about as I hold down and mash every button possible to skip through it faster.
 

Souplex

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Jul 29, 2008
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That doesn't address why they don't just do a straight port to the DS and call it a day.
 

Rafe

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Apr 18, 2009
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You make a very good point.

I still believe that a remake of FF VII would sell better than FF XV.
 

Aedwynn

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Jan 10, 2009
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Danallighieri said:
I can see why, when constantly making new games(pray that Final Fantasy 13 VS is as good as the original 13 was linear) it'd be a problem to remake the game. But then again, just because the graphics aren't that good by nowadays standards doesn't mean that it's not fun to play the original, I mean I'm content to go back to the original from time to time and just enjoy playing it. Although I say that, a man can always dream that they will remake it, perhaps without the voice acting though
This. Very much this. I think a big reason they don't want to remake it is that it would be kinda redundant to do so. Just because the original it isn't shiny new and all purdy doesn't mean it stops being a good game.

Also, we all cried foul when George Lucas did the Star Wars digital remake, but we're basically asking for the same thing with a game here. Okay, maybe I don't quite get it, but it's kinda like selling a game that you know everyone has already seen and played.

I said before, a long time ago on these very forums that maybe we should examine just what made FFVII so good and so memorable and make a new game with an original story that captures that atmosphere and sense of grand adventure... but I guess that's what they've been trying and (arguably) failing to do ever since.

As Danallighieri above me said, just because you don't get a shiny new remake doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the original.
 

Cornish

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Mar 19, 2010
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Belladonnah said:
If SE is to be believed, XIII versus will have the same levels of freedom you're used to from previous final fantasy games. But it doesn't even matter. If Crytek can make a completelly new engine and a massive sandbox game in 3 years, with levels of detail well above what someone would expect from a FFVII remake, why can't FF devs make one in a realistic ammount of time, specially if they use the already existing engine from XIII/XIIIv?

I know 40 years is an hiperbole, but they use it to imply an unrealistic amount of time. No game has ever taken that kind of time to make before, so why should the FFVII remake?
The bolded part presents the first issue; I'm still waiting for my Japanese voices in Final Fantasy XIII. The Playstation 3 was supposed to get those, I haven't seen them. The state of Final Fantasy VII and XIII are factual, what Square Enix is doing with Final Fantasy XIII Versus is any once guess.

Your argument of why can't B do C if A can do C doesn't fly either; A isn't B and B isn't A. So just because A can do C, doesn't mean B is supposedly factually capable of doing C as well. The world doesn't work that way, different developers work differently. You're oversimplifying the issue by trying to say this.

If you know it's a hyperbole, then what's the issue? It simply is their way of saying; it'll take far too long.
 

chronobreak

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Sep 6, 2008
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Where is Shamus? He's been quoted tons of times from this article from people with opposing viewpoints, I would really like to hear his rebuttal.
 

Silva

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Apr 13, 2009
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So, Shamus, your argument boils down to:

- Final Fantasy VII was made within the much less constricting limitations of the hardware of two generations ago.

- Therefore, making it again would be ten times as expensive.

- If it will be ten times as expensive, it will not be feasible.

Let's look at the implications of your argument, which I find rather more important:

- Making a Final Fantasy game now that's ten times as linear as FFVII is supposedly justified because of the extra costs in having an open world in full 3D.

- A game like that is going to be canned for being "too linear", by your own standards and those of the Western games reviewing industry. FFXIII suffered from this reaction already.

The above leads to two even more disturbing notions:

- Square cannot make critically acclaimed games of the same kind as they used to without breaking budget constrictions. They will therefore need to change their approach or continue making games that reviewers consider far inferior to FFVII. Likely, any change of approach would have to include reducing expenses in some way. There is no way that their Public Relations Department will allow them to drop graphical expenses, so in some way they will have to lower quality or copy-and-paste systems on the gameplay level.

- Considering the growing expenses of graphics and proper animation, the other artful sides of game development, namely scripts and writing may be allotted far less skilled workers. Therefore, over time, games might become as pretty as Avatar, but as blandly written as a bad anime.

I think that your core argument is logical enough, Shamus, but the details of the consequences of said argument deserve more attention than a vague counter-initiative aimed at fan dismay for a game concept that won't even reach the Beta stage.
 

sunpop

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Oct 23, 2008
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If people keep annoying them about it they should make it the next duke nukem or starcraft ghost.

They can talk about it maybe even release some game play footage then a few months before release, oh never mind we can't finish the game.

Sure people would be all pissy about it but we all know the fans would say screw square enix I'll never buy from them again up until the next final fantasy is released and it sells in record numbers.
 

VonBrewskie

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Apr 9, 2009
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I think this was a very insightful article. Thank you for laying out some of the technicalities impeding a FFVII remake; I'm not well versed in these matters and it's nice to read some educated commentary on the subject. I am a huge fan of FFVII and all of its incarnations but as an artist I question the integrity of a remake. I am an actor, and I never watch my own work if it has been recorded. I would rather listen to the criticisms and adjustments from the audience and my fellow actors to make my next performance more effective. I gain nothing from rehashing past mistakes, or even past glories. I finish a project, then move on to the next challenge. I really don't like all of these remakes that are coming out in the media. Movies and games seem to be the biggest offenders in this respect. I would rather see the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to do a FFVII remake spent creating a new adventure in the FF universe. I don't think talented artists or the gaming public should waste their time reliving former glories when an infinite universe of possibilities is in front of them. I love FFVII as much as the next fanboy, (oh yes. I wear that moniker with pride. I AM A FFVII FANBOY), but I love the creative process more. Besides, I'd rather see a new, more complex and beautiful version of Final Fantasy Tactics anyway!
 

FloodOne

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Silva said:
- Considering the growing expenses of graphics and proper animation, the other artful sides of game development, namely scripts and writing may be allotted far less skilled workers. Therefore, over time, games might become as pretty as Avatar, but as blandly written as a bad anime.
Most games are already as poorly written as a bad anime.

And even the mighty BioWare has yet to write a story that is a step above uninspired sci-fi that you can find on any bookstore shelf.

The industry is moving too far in one direction without addressing other shortcomings.

It's kind of like a wide receiver who only works on his speed, but not his body control, route running or hands. Sure, he'll be fast, but he won't be all that effective.