The first Escapists.

[Lilani]

Thank you for putting something so complex and truthful into such wonderful and eloquent words.

Indeed, well said.

Thanks guys

And this, but with less of an aggressive tone.

Yeah, I guess I got a bit emotional there, lol.

You have no idea how much I identify with this story, only difference is, I'm a dude.
Anyway, yes, I agree with what you said, but one thing to understand is, for some, being weird or different was what made them feel unique, without knowing that intolerance of what is mainstream is the other side of the rope, and that other extreme of the rope, is just as wrong. They don't want mainstream culture to merge with geeks because of a very simple truth, they are afraid, they were afraid before, so they turned to geekdom to escape, if the mainstream culture catches up, they can't feel safe anymore.

Yeah, I feel like the OP has a very specific definition and image of the "geek culture" and what it entails, which to him is very personal and not very open to change. Which is alright for him, because everybody has things that are close to their hearts, and it's always painful when they start to change or disappear. But the problem I have with it is he believes his image of geek culture applies (or should apply) to everyone. He doesn't want to leave room for others to create their own definitions and enjoy it how they like, and that's just wrong.

The geek culture isn't some exclusive country club you earn a membership for by paying a certain amount of dues, with a strict set of rules and standards. It's a collection of mini-cultures which spontaneously form around people as they collaborate and communicate with each other. People don't just join the "geek club," it's never worked like that. It just sort of happens. There isn't anything sacred or concrete about it, and that's what makes it so beautiful.

And that's also why it can't be damaged by going mainstream. People with similar interests will always gather together and collaborate with each other. LARPers will always LARP, cosplayers will always cosplay, D&D players will always dungeon crawl, gamers will always play games and hold tournaments, Whovians will always dress up as the Doctor, bronies will always love and tolerate. More people on the outside of their group sharing the same interests or being aware of them doesn't change that. The only thing it can do is lower the bar of entry to such interests and make it easier for newcomers to find some footing and get involved as well. And what could be better than giving more people the same happiness we find in our interests?

 

[ResonanceSD]

And this, but with less of an aggressive tone.

Yeah, I guess I got a bit emotional there, lol.

Nah, I meant that to refer to the other dude I quoted. Yours was

The below quote is the entire response that you've been getting in this thread, condensed.So thank you, @Lilani, for putting what I was thinking down on paper.

-snip-

I feel if your attitude toward the "mainstreaming" of the geek culture is so hurtful to your established image of it, perhaps you were not an outcast because others refused to accept how different you were.

 

[Blunderboy]

And this, but with less of an aggressive tone.

Yeah, I guess I got a bit emotional there, lol.

You're fine. He meant me.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Why are we doing this? Why is being mainstream a bad thing? Isn't it what we dreamed of as children? To be able to publicly display our interests and quirks proudly without the fear of being vilified, and have others try to emulate us and try to blend in with us for a change? If we are group made up of outcasts, what right have we to cast others out ourselves?

You, me, people like us, sometimes I get the distinct feeling that if our younger selves were growing up today then we've never have the chance to become the geeks that we are now. Because a mainstreamed geek culture would be part and parcel of the society that inoculated itself against our inherent strangeness by inflicting ostracisation.

Ostracisation that is resisted by developing a counter-culture. Which is ultimately doomed to be swallowed back up by the mainstream. Like Cronus devouring his children in Greek myth in fear that they would one day supplant him as ruler.

I'm old. I no longer require the sanctuary of this space. But I still remember that at one point that I once did, as I think you do too. This manifests itself in a fondness for the trappings of nostalgia, perhaps you have a similar collection.

I just hope that I am wrong that I'm overreacting, and that the feeling of inclusion, of legitimacy, has not come at the expense of a new generation of outcasts, misfits and weirdos. Without that influx of new blood then Geek is about as dead as Punk. They'll do fine without us, but I doubt this place will be quite the same without them.

 

[FalloutJack]

Okay, so this isn't really about the first Escapists? As in here? 'Cause I was kinda' curious about that, see if they were still here or not. That kinda' thing.

 

[Lilani]

You, me, people like us, sometimes I get the distinct feeling that if our younger selves were growing up today then we've never have the chance to become the geeks that we are now. Because a mainstreamed geek culture would be part and parcel of the society that inoculated itself against our inherent strangeness by inflicting ostracisation.

Ostracisation that is resisted by developing a counter-culture. Which is ultimately doomed to be swallowed back up by the mainstream. Like Cronus devouring his children in Greek myth in fear that they would one day supplant him as ruler.

I'm old. I no longer require the sanctuary of this space. But I still remember that at one point that I once did, as I think you do too. This manifests itself in a fondness for the trappings of nostalgia, perhaps you have a similar collection.

I just hope that I am wrong that I'm overreacting, and that the feeling of inclusion, of legitimacy, has not come at the expense of a new generation of outcasts, misfits and weirdos. Without that influx of new blood then Geek is about as dead as Punk. They'll do fine without us, but I doubt this place will be quite the same without them.

I see. I feel the total opposite about how geeks come about. As I said in my last post a few posts up (which I highly suggest you go up and read if you haven't already), being a geek isn't something you consciously choose. It isn't an exclusive club you sign up for, and it isn't a title you earn by going through a rite of passage. It's simply a status that spontaneously occurs with the right mixture of quirks, interests, and comrades. A geek isn't necessarily a social outcast--Vin Diesel likes him some video games, which made him pursue the Riddick series. Robin Williams named his daughter Zelda. David Tennant loves Shakespeare, which has come through in some of his interviews and charity skits. These are all highly popular and respected individuals in many different circles. A geek is simply someone who is so fixated on or interested in something that their behavior is affected by it.

Often times, especially in such a concentrated place of socialization like school, that odd behavior can cause ostracization. But it's not inherent to being a geek because it's not inherent to why a person pursues those interests. I didn't like Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon because they set me apart from my peers. I liked them because I liked them--they were engaging to me, and I identified with them. And I think you know this as well, since earlier you mentioned you would rather have shared your interests with your peers rather than be ostracized because of them.

I don't quite understand why you so closely associate isolation and being a geek that you feel the two must be together in order for the formula to remain "true." The new generation of geeks will find ways to achieve their "sanctuary." I'm sure those who consciously wish to be freaks and outcasts will find ways to achieve that status in this brave new world. But they should be allowed to decide what being a geek and a freak and an outcast means to them and their generation. You have no right to look down on them, as your version of a geek is no more legitimate than theirs. You think your version of a "freak" came first? What about the squares of the 50s? What about the witches and sorcerers and eccentrics of old?

Being a geek has always been about acceptance more than rejection, if you think about it. While rejection often but doesn't always happen to geeks, acceptance into a similar band of eclectic individuals always and inevitably occurs. You may be fond of the way your status as a geek separated you from your peers, and again there is nothing wrong with that for you. But don't for a moment think that's how it does or should work for all geeks. The very fact that we disagree here proves that being the geek is a very individual and spontaneous thing. There isn't a strict set of rules or requirements. There never has been, and there never should be. Because if you want to quickly and thoroughly kill the spirit of being a geek, all you have to do is stuff it in a box and lock it up from the rest of the world.

 

[darth.pixie]

To be honest, I'm not sure it's acceptance. It's the new "hot" thing. Lump it with afros and tie-dye shirts, if you wish. It just started because movie producers decided geeks were more likely to pay a LOT of money for things they enjoy, which is ultimately true. No one was afraid to discuss things on the internet because they were anonymous and suddenly they...we started ruling the discussions.

Then came the Apple thing, which is quite strange for someone like me, who really dislikes their products.

And if you went anywhere reading a Monster Manual, you'd still get laughed at, albeit by people who play Angry Birds on their Iphones.

 

[irishda]

Our parent culture readily defines a real man as a man who has ready and easy access to sex with a woman. Our decadent western lifestyles mean that sex alone has been left as the last rite of passage into adulthood.

False. On the surface, it might seem as though sex is the rite of adulthood, but it's still more symbolic than a lot of people believe. Any two dumb kids can bump uglies, and no one will say "Wow, look how grown up they are" when they find out. Sex is symbolic of an acknowledgement of social awareness and personal responsibilities, like a social contract you sign that says "I know what's expected of me as an adult."

Sure there's people that believe that sex signifies you as an adult, but I know for a fact everyone realizes just how dumb that idea was when they ACTUALLY hit the milestone. And to be more specific, our society defines a real man as someone who handles his business, or takes care of his responsibilities.

-snip-

As for your main contention, I don't know why you feel as if you've been banned from your own social circles. I think you're expanding the geek world a bit too much. You're not losing out on a personal hobby/lifestyle specifically because yours does not require you to leave the privacy of your own home. There's no club you MUST be a part of in order to participate in this particular sport. There's no tryouts; no social relationships to be maintained.

Unless popped polo collar "bros" are storming your house and yanking your 360 out of the wall (although you strike me as a PC guy), you're not being pushed from your inner circle. We like to talk about how "different and mainstream" gaming has become, but honestly, as a guy who's been a gamer since Space Quest, I don't find games to be terribly different between then and now. Hell, FPS' have always been simplistic controls. Wolfenstein 3D was move keys, gun selection, and shoot. The reviled Call of Duty is more complicated in execution.

So don't worry. I know it's easy for outcasts to feel like this; that change means exclusion. But fear not, we press on.