The Force Awakens question

[happyninja42]

At what point did I complain about Rey being able to fight? At what point did ANYONE outside of a chan board complain about that?!

Do you mean "anyone" in regards to this specific thread? Or just in general? Because people have complained about EVERYTHING related to Rey at some point or other since the movie came out. In fact, plenty of people on this very forum have complained about that very aspect of her character in the past.

My general point was that Rey has obviously led a rough life up until the start of TFA and it is not unreasonable for her to have picked up on a lot of skills (fighting and flying included) that show up over the course of the movie.

I will agree with you on the fighting bit, but I do have something of an issue of thinking she knows how to fly starships, simply based on what we see in the movie. To be fair though, there wasn't any reason baby Anakin could fly a starfighter either, but he did, and I think most people chalked it up to him channeling the Force. I just chalked it up to that. But I do feel the movie did a terrible job, trying to establish if she had previous flight skill or not, based on what we see.

One thing it seems everyone forgets about the Force, something that was established in New Hope, that can easily explain these inconsistencies, is the conversation between Luke and Ben on the Falcon.

"Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force, flowing through him!"
"You mean it controls your actions?"
"Partially, but it also obeys your commands."

This is basically saying that people who are in tune with the Force, can pull off crazy things instinctively, without any training. Because the Force basically took control of them at that time. They needed to fly a ship, but didn't have the know-how to do it. They channel the Force, and are now able to pull it off reflexively for a time. It worked for Baby Anakin, no reason it can't work with Rey.

 

[Drathnoxis]

There's something that bothers me that I never see get brought up: Poe and Finn shoulda been blowed up when they were tethered to that wall! They were stuck there forever! Their idiocy and rash action should have been rewarded with explosive laser fiery death, but no. Apparently Stormtroopers can't even hit a stationary target the size of a barn!

Also, what the heck is with people defending Rey by going "Oh, but Anakin did that too so it's okay!" as if that means anything. Literally everybody on the planet hated Anakin for being an annoying, precocious little mary sue!

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

There's something that bothers me that I never see get brought up: Poe and Finn shoulda been blowed up when they were tethered to that wall! They were stuck there forever! Their idiocy and rash action should have been rewarded with explosive laser fiery death, but no. Apparently Stormtroopers can't even hit a stationary target the size of a barn!

Not when the heros are involved. I mean, Luke and Leia spent ages on that ledge with no cover. Damned plot armor.

Also, what the heck is with people defending Rey by going "Oh, but Anakin did that too so it's okay!" as if that means anything. Literally everybody on the planet hated Anakin for being an annoying, precocious little mary sue!

I only bring Anakin up when folks start in the the "never before in Star Wars has there been such a Mary Sue as Rey" style argument. Because some folks think Rey's more of a Mary Sue than the child who could win at the sport where collective wisdom says human's can't even compete.

 

[Jadak]

As for the Resistance, they are pretty much the people who wanted to keep fighting the Imperial Remnant after the truce/peace was signed. So they are scraping by mostly on private donations and some minor secret funding to remain a thorn in the side of the First Order. You could liken them to Che Guevara and his professional revolutionaries, after Cuba was won they moved to other countries to try and bring Communism there too, in part because Castro and Guevara had different ideas on how to administer Cuba. In this case, the Resistance keeps fighting because they feel there can be no peace with the First Order, a sentiment not shared by the Republic. At least until Starkiller base does its' thing.

The bit about them being "the people who wanted to keep fighting the Imperial Remnant" is off. That doesn't describe those people at all, the resistance was formed decades after peace had been made with the Imperial Remnant while The First Order was a separate entity formed in secret in the meantime.

From there you're more or less on the mark. We're still waiting on future books to fill in details on exactly what happens when The First Order emerges, but the suggestion so far is that not only is the Republic not willing to start a war, but a significant faction actually shares the ideology any may either support them or even flat out join prior to the events of TFA.

 

[KaraFang]

It absolutely fails, the reason it fails isn't just because it's an inferior version of A New Hope, no, it's because of the characters.

Rey: FAR TOO POWERFUL. Seriously, she's already the most powerful force user despite pretty much knowing nothing about it.

Don't find Rey to be any more a Mary Sue than any other Star Wars protagonist,

Rey in comparison? She only really needs rescuing ONCE from the Star Killer base and she was already in the process of saving herself when it happened AND it served as a plot device that led to the day being saved, (Luke could've met Obi-Wan without getting attacked by Tusken Raiders, but if Rey hadn't been kidnapped Finn would've left the plot, and the plan to assault the Star Killer would've never gotten off the ground.), her big moments with the force started with piloting the Melenium Falcon (easily the second most awkwardly designed ship in the galaxy) through an obstacle course full of tight corridors while being shot at by a bunch of TIE fighters, moved up to the freaking mind trick of all things (something that only Jedi Masters had been seen pulling off before) and that Force Second wind against Kylo Ren (I'm letting the telekinesis off if only because Clone Wars showed that force sensitive babies could pull that off.), and pretty much everyone she meets adores her (Han warmed up to her a heck of a lot faster than he ever did with Luke, and Finn was just about ready to propose to her despite her nearly killing him twice, only one of which was accidental)

The only protagonists who really come close to Rey's level of Sue are videogame characters, and even then the standards are different for that sort of thing.

Personally? Considering that JJ had a big role in the "direction" of the new films and that he doesn't (frankly) have the ability to come up with a new idea, and finally that he's commented a lot in interviews that he is a BIG KOTOR fan, I think simply.

Rey is doing a "Revan".

She's powerful and able to do mindtricks and hold her own against Kylo because she was a Sith.
When she has the "flashback" touching Lukes old sabre, Luke is on the left, Kylo and some of his knights are on the right, her viewpoint in inbetween on the floor.

I think she's the one who turned Kylo to the dark and seduced him. You can "read" a lot of his lines and when you listen to his tone when he says "You still want to kill me, don't you?" it's almost dark amusement. He also doesn't let them torture her 1st in the base... he talks to her (unlike the pilot dude, who so so forgettable I've forgotten his name).

So, I think JJ has set up that Rey is a mindwiped Sith... mindwiped by Luke. (oh, and notice when he turns... his facial expression is one of sadness and regret when he's looking at her. He might be just dismayed someone found him... but it could be he's facing the person who helped destroy his new Jedi and the Acadamy, and she has NO IDEA!!

Man, I hope that's the case... for most people in the movie theatre who haven't played KOTOR? Total Mind screw "I am your father" level.

 

[twistedmic]

She's powerful and able to do mindtricks and hold her own against Kylo because she was a Sith.
When she has the "flashback" touching Lukes old sabre, Luke is on the left, Kylo and some of his knights are on the right, her viewpoint in inbetween on the floor.

I think she's the one who turned Kylo to the dark and seduced him. You can "read" a lot of his lines and when you listen to his tone when he says "You still want to kill me, don't you?" it's almost dark amusement. He also doesn't let them torture her 1st in the base... he talks to her (unlike the pilot dude, who so so forgettable I've forgotten his name).

So, I think JJ has set up that Rey is a mindwiped Sith... mindwiped by Luke. (oh, and notice when he turns... his facial expression is one of sadness and regret when he's looking at her. He might be just dismayed someone found him... but it could be he's facing the person who helped destroy his new Jedi and the Acadamy, and she has NO IDEA!!

Man, I hope that's the case... for most people in the movie theatre who haven't played KOTOR? Total Mind screw "I am your father" level.

One, it is explicitly stated that Snoke was the one who seduced him to the dark side. Two, in the flashbacks Rey was a small child so highly unlikely that she was a Sith. 3. Kylo Ren and Snoke are/were not Sith, they are dark side force users (there is a difference). 4. Kylo Ren is trying to turn Rey to the dark side, torturing her right off the bat is not a good way to do that.
5. Look could alos be upset that he felt his friend and six planets worth of people (if you count whoever was still on Starkiller base when it imploded) die and has to live with the knowledge that his nephew killed Han (his friend) and is working for the people that just destroyed five planets.

 

[KaraFang]

One, it is explicitly stated that Snoke was the one who seduced him to the dark side. Two, in the flashbacks Rey was a small child so highly unlikely that she was a Sith. 3. Kylo Ren and Snoke are/were not Sith, they are dark side force users (there is a difference). 4. Kylo Ren is trying to turn Rey to the dark side, torturing her right off the bat is not a good way to do that.
5. Look could alos be upset that he felt his friend and six planets worth of people (if you count whoever was still on Starkiller base when it imploded) die and has to live with the knowledge that his nephew killed Han (his friend) and is working for the people that just destroyed five planets.

Doesn't mean that Snoke didn't use someone else as part of turning Ren. If they're not officially Sith, just Darkside receptive (whatever being a Sith vs Not one means, I'm not a SW fan, just someone who enjoys the movies like most people and would assume a darkside force user would be a Sith in the movie.), then the "rule of two" is it? would not apply.

The flashbacks were mixed of rey as a child (possibly the fake memories shoved in here) vs the real ones that got her there aka the Jedi academy and the Knights of Ren. If they did do a Revan to her, then touching a force powered object would trigger all manner of jumbled crap in there.

Hurting people to make you join them seems to be quite the sith thing to do... Vader has no issues with beating the crap out of Luke, cutting off his hand and THEN asking him to join him, so not torturing Rey to make him join him? Uh huh...

Luke could be feeling that, but then you lose the emotional impact and he's staring at Rey at the time... I think we can associate any feelings on his face at that time to be aimed at her.

Still think that we could be in for a Rey was darkside and they did a "Revan" on her. Would make her and the movies far more interesting than what we currently have. TFW wasn't bad, per se, but it wasn't amazing either. It was "serviceable" and does have the potential to become the jumping point for something better. (shrugs)