The FTL cloning question

[Knight Captain Kerr]

This sounds a bit like the Cortical Stacks from Eclipse Phase but less good. In Eclipse Phase it's a little device implanted in your skull that backs up your conciousness every second, then once you die you can download your conciousness into a new body with all your memories up to the moment of death and carry on where you left off. Anyway I'd be pretty happy because I'm essentially immortal and don't have to worry about dying ever again. That said I wouldn't be jumping out of helicopters for fun, I'd pretty much carry on my normal existence without having to worry about death.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I stay as safe as possible and try to avoid coming to physical harm. Why? Because, if I die, my consciousness dies. That is to say, the mind that's writing this message right now disappears. Sure, the cloning process ensures that an identical copy of my mind exists, it thinks exactly how I would think and it acts exactly like I would act in any given situation, but it's not me. I'm now dead, which, assuming I'm correct in my atheism, means my consciousness stops existing. The fact that there's an identical one out there doesn't mean I can continue experiencing things, it just means that whatever contribution or harm I might bring to the world still happens, brought about by someone who is exactly like me but is NOT me.

Not to mention, the copy was identical at some point (if everything goes perfectly), but unless you die at that point, the original you will continue to gain new experiences the copy lacks.

 

[tangoprime]

I'm just going to go ahead and reference the movie The 6th Day. Yes, it's a rather terrible movie, but shows the problem pretty clearly.

The only way I'd be on board with acting without fear of death due to cloning replacements being an option would be with the EVE Online model- that is, you have a ready-made clone for insurance purposes, with a brain implant version of a CD burner. While piloting your ship via hydrostatic pod, and I suppose since Dust 514, while implanted with pod-pilot style brain implants, the instant you're killed (or specifically while piloting a ship, the instant the pod is breached) a snap perfect brain-scan is made, which by the nature of the technology (though also intended) is destructive. An immediate transfer, while the scan is in progress, to your clone is made, creating neuropathways and activating synapses precisely as it was in the previous head, so precise and rapidly that not a beat is missed in the transfer of consciousness.

While this still sounds a bit unsettling, especially with regards to the "that's not really ME me" thing, taken with another bit of technology in game, which by lore is paired with the above mentioned technology, makes me feel a bit more at ease with it.

Infomorph Psychology:

"Psychological training that strengthens the pilot's mental tenacity. The reality of having one's consciousness detached from one's physical form, scattered across the galaxy and then placed in a vat-grown clone can be very unsettling to the untrained mind.

Allows 1 jump clone per level."

There's already another mechanic in-game who's lore specifically references transfer of consciousness. In game, in addition to your "insurance" clone, you can have multiple "jump clones" that you can position around places you'd need to get to quickly, or just need to transition to without making a huge trip out of it (have one out in nul-sec for pvp warfare, and have one back in empire space for commerce/'vacation'). The transfer in this case is non-destructive, and no cut/paste is going on, more of a syncing. Plus, as the whole thing was made to be very meta, since it is still YOU playing, then it's intended to imply a transfer of consciousness, not just a copy.

 

[Pinkamena]

This is a much more interesting question than "what would you do if you could clone yourself". What makes you "you"? Ones sense of self is built upon memories of experiences, so if you copy those into a new body, will that new consciousness be just as much 'you' as you are yourself?

I'd say that it doesn't make all of them you. And so, likewise, a single copy isn't either.

The clone would disagree, though. From his view, he is the "real" one. His memories are exactly the same as yours, even the memory of being cloned. Of course the scientists who did the cloning would know who's the original and who's not, but would it be ethically right to label one as a the "original" and one a the "copy" when their consciousness, memories, and sense of self are literally identical?
Also, can you still call the original and the clone for the same person, or do they become separate identities the moment they begin experiencing different things?
To me this is pretty fascinating to think about. Basically, what makes you "you" and not someone else. Darn this philosophy, it drives me to think.

 

[Bertylicious]

I think I'd just start serving all my meals in a bucket. Gluttony ftw!

Other than that I wouldn't change anything as I suffer from afraids.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

I think this was ripped from EVE Online.

See in EVE, capsuleers are completely immortal. Their memories are transmitted digitally to a new clone upon death (that's why you gotta keep your clone updated at all times or you lose up to 2 million skillpoints).

In FTL, crew members that are killed in action poof back to life while losing some experience. That's pretty much identical.

 

[briankoontz]

There would be a culture around cloning which would dictate it's ethics. Assuming a corporation was in control of it, there would be a form to fill out, waivers to sign, and a fee for each clone generated. There would be a "terms of use" and various ways to breach the terms of use, possibly including reckless endangerment of oneself and others. It's actually very difficult to endanger oneself without causing harm to others - even if the entire world knew you had a clone backup it's basic human instinct to protect human life, so you would cause others trauma if you endangered yourself.

What could possibly happen is "deathmatch" sports, since the penalty for death would be far less. So people could beat, shoot, slash, or bash each other to death, this form of "entertainment" competing against traditional "life limited" sports for viewers. This is a substantial reason why 61% of mainstream video games feature killing as a primary form of gameplay, because the "victim" can simply be reproduced by digital code - "cloned". Given that conservative game theory posits violence as a key element of fun, deathmatch sports ought to be popular among these people.

People with clones would have to identify themselves in some way, at least through a card. In a car accident causing a serious injury it's very important for paramedics and doctors to know whether or not you have a clone backup. That's just one example among many - it also matters a lot in the case of "suicides" and other events.

Generally I think this technology would be a bad thing - a lot of existing human morality is based around mortality - notice the near identical words - morality/mortality. Also notice - immorality/immortality.

The desire for eternal life provokes "be careful what you wish for, you might just get it".

 

[Scarim Coral]

Could I adjust it abit then I could become immortal? (The old me passed the dust while the new clone emerage is a younger me.)

If I can't then I would just become more lazy and obsess or maybe I could become more of a risk taker when it benefit others as in saving other people lived.

 

[fix-the-spade]

What kind of shenanigans are you going to get up to?

I'd have as much caution and self preservation as I do now, because what my perfect copy clone does is irrelevant to my corpse.

That's a terrible solution really, like burning the original drawing because you have a machine that can create a perfect copy after you burn it, you've still lost the original drawing.

 

[DaWaffledude]

I think this was ripped from EVE Online.

See in EVE, capsuleers are completely immortal. Their memories are transmitted digitally to a new clone upon death (that's why you gotta keep your clone updated at all times or you lose up to 2 million skillpoints).

In FTL, crew members that are killed in action poof back to life while losing some experience. That's pretty much identical.

Pretty sure Star Trek did it first. Or at least something similar.

OT: Assuming the cloning machine has all my memories up until the point of my death, I'm all for it. I don't believe in souls.

As for the first thing I'd do? Sky diving without a parachute, ************!

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Here I was anticipating a thread of people admitting to their secret suicidal desires, such as wrestling a shark until they eventually actually beat it up instead of being ripped to shreds in a war of attrition using clones.

Instead, I got a cool philosophical thread about what is self and the morality of the cloning system.

Cool! Keep it going!

 

[Ranorak]

I'd finally have someone to play multyplayer with.... :'(

In all seriousness, I do identify myself as my brain, so if a exact copy of my brain, from the moment of death, is placed into a new body (preferably not a exact replica, they can improve mine a bit) I would assume I just woke up from a short nap.

it gets complicated when there are 2 active ones. Cause unlike most stories, I'd say they are both me, and neither is more worthy then the other.

 

[Johnny Impact]

Uhm....none. Presumably death is painful and unpleasant. No reason to skydive without a chute when you can go with one.

Tangential thought: Back when I played WoW I thought about the ramifications of a deathless world. I imagined doing a Pathfinder game where the world was full of ultrapowerful heroes constantly slaying and dying to no purpose. Clear out the murloc village, burn it to the ground.....it's there the next morning. The elder dragon comes back, dead heroes return in hours, death as it occurs in the real world literally cannot happen. You can get more power and equipment but can effect no lasting change. This is a kind of hell: forever fighting, never winning; forever dying, never resting. The ageless nature of characters mean this has lasted for thousands of years. Even the most stalwart would rather lose the fight and die in disgrace if it meant an end. The challenge for the PCs would be to break the cycle, figure out what was keeping the world in stasis.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

Well, this brings to my mind a fairly silly question: If the clone is supposed to actually be "you", then will the clone be held legally responsible for whatever the progenitor of the clone did before their death?

Because, if they aren't really "you" then it follows they cannot be held legally responsible, even though they bear the memories of having done the . . . whatever. . . and possibly bear the guilt/pride of having done the act via their memories.

AAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! *head explodes in confusion and frustration trying to figure this out*

*clone walks in, mops up and sits down in recently vacated chair*

Now where was I?