The Golden Years of Anime

[Worgen]

Ill see your robot carnival clip and raise you a Paprika trailer.

Yeah... And he's dead now.

Satoshi Kon was one of if not the only producer of anime whose work did not adhere to tropes even 0.1%. His movies had homeless people and *gasp* aids. When was the last time you heard a character mutter the word 'aids' in an anime.

And Miyazaki is getting too old to work too. Now I'm depressed.

I know, it sucks, he was one of the best directors of anime around and I've enjoyed everything of his that I've seen.

 

[Entitled]

But Akira showed you can do both. So do did many western cartoons, for that matter. This is likely why I love Katsuhiro Otomo's and Koji Morimoto's work so much, and put them even above Hayao Miyazaki in terms of raw animation talent.

The voices need to match anyway, so to produce the animation first but retrofitting the voices afterward is just being difficult for no reason whatsoever.

Some shows have more budget than others, and some designers are more talented than others. I'm not saying that it's *impossible* for anime to have lip-synching and smoother frame rates.

The point still stands, that Anime has a fundamentally different way of production from western animation, and it's not a matter of declinism or of lacking talent, but of different priorities.

Sure, sometmes western cartoons also did both. But just as few anime can afford to fous on lip-sych, very few cartoons, (let alone TV cartoons), can focus on the kind of detailed background sceneries and camera angle play and textural detail as even a lower than average quality late night otaku anime.

 

[Entitled]

I hate the notion of a "Golden Age" because there is no such thing. People has said such things since, well, it's been possible.

Literally, the phrase itself originates from 6th century BCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age#The_Golden_Age_in_Europe:_Greece

 

[Edl01]

Everything is better in hindsight. More anime are being released now, so there is more crap anime. However the percentage of good to crap is the same as it has always been. The thing is, with rare exceptions we only remember the good stuff from the 80s and 90s, while the bad things released today are fresh in our memories.
It is the same with games - everyone thinks that gaming was at its best in the 80s because they have forgot the mass amounts of crappy games that came out there.

90% of everything is crap. 90% of anime is crap. 90% of games are crap. This is expecially prominent in Anime, since literally the only anime that people know about from the 80s and 90s are from that 10%.


As for Sage: I think Anime Abandon is a really stupid show, because it is just a nostalgia fest where Sage goes on about how "everything was better when I was a kid" without putting any reasoning or evidence behind it. A better show for example would be maybe a comparitive show where he explains why anime in the 80s was better:
Why is Sailor Moon so much better than Madoka Magica?
Why is Macross so much better than Guilty Crown?
Why is Golden Boy better than Fate/Zero?
Why is Slayers better than Attack on Titan?

I would find that interesting, but all I can see is some guy waving his walking stick at the kids in his yard saying "you kids today and your i-pads, and your mobile phones and your Facebooks, it was so much better when I was a kid and we communicated with rocks".

 

[Casual Shinji]

Some shows have more budget than others, and some designers are more talented than others. I'm not saying that it's *impossible* for anime to have lip-synching and smoother frame rates.

The point still stands, that Anime has a fundamentally different way of production from western animation, and it's not a matter of declinism or of lacking talent, but of different priorities.

Sure, sometmes western cartoons also did both. But just as few anime can afford to fous on lip-sych, very few cartoons, (let alone TV cartoons), can focus on the kind of detailed background sceneries and camera angle play and textural detail as even a lower than average quality late night otaku anime.

True about the background detail, anime always had western cartoons beat in that aspect. Maybe a few 80's cartoons, like Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors and Dungeons and Dragons, could measure up. But with anime it's usually a given that the backgrounds look great.

I do miss the old watercolour backgrounds though.

 

[Edl01]

Thatr reminds me I should add:
Anyone who did like anime in the 90s and feels modern anime sucks; watch some stuff by Gen Urobachi. He definitly fills that niche, besides Madoka Magica his shows are all serious action shows that lack have large amounts of violence, little fan service and basically no Moe. As I said the only exceptions to this is Madoka Magica(it is meant to be a deconstruction on modern anime) and a few episodes in the latter half of Phantom Reqium for the Phantom.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah... And he's dead now.

Satoshi Kon was one of if not the only producer of anime whose work did not adhere to tropes even 0.1%. His movies had homeless people and *gasp* aids. When was the last time you heard a character mutter the word 'aids' in an anime.

And Miyazaki is getting too old to work too. Now I'm depressed.

I know, it sucks, he was one of the best directors of anime around and I've enjoyed everything of his that I've seen.

The thing is, I don't even really love his work that much. I do respect it a great deal. It's just that it's so unique compared to the rest of the medium, and there's nothing else similar out there.

Episode 2 of Paranoia Agent is my favourite of his work. Being able to have me sympathize to such an extent with a smug little 12 year-old requires a monstrous amount of storytelling skills.

 

[Edl01]

Yeah... And he's dead now.

Satoshi Kon was one of if not the only producer of anime whose work did not adhere to tropes even 0.1%. His movies had homeless people and *gasp* aids. When was the last time you heard a character mutter the word 'aids' in an anime.

And Miyazaki is getting too old to work too. Now I'm depressed.

I know, it sucks, he was one of the best directors of anime around and I've enjoyed everything of his that I've seen.

The thing is, I don't even really love his work that much. I do respect it a great deal. It's just that it's so unique compared to the rest of the medium, and there's nothing else similar out there.

Episode 2 of Paranoia Agent is my favourite of his work. Being able to have me sympathize to such an extent with a smug little 12 year-old requires a monstrous amount of storytelling skills.

You know I disagree with what I said in this post now that I've read it through. It was basically comparing Shinbo to Kon, but then I noticed that the only real major similarity between the two is how unique their works are, and how likeable and interesting they make their characters.

 

[IndomitableSam]

I don't think there is a golden age, unless you want to call the golden age the 80's when people started really making it. I grew up watching things like Astroboy, never knowing what 'anime' was, until Sailor Moon appeared when I was 12 or so. Then I basically devoured the medium (and manga) for the next decade. And I always found good stuff and terrible stuff. Every year I'd watch the trailers and try out the new series, then narrow it down to one or two to watch. I'm not really into it now, but FMA remains one of my all-time favorites, alongside Serei no Moribito (both made late 00's and newer), and Shamanic Princess, which I have at home on VHS... somewhere. Not sure where. I have a few other favorites, but I like a wide variety.

So, yeah. I don't think there really has been a golden age. It's remained a very steady (if not growing) medium and high quality peices are put out alongside the crap. Take Ghibli - the newer stuff is just as good as the old. Although I think my favorite is Laputa. Or maybe Howl's. Not sure.

 

[Entitled]

The thing is, I don't even really love his work that much. I do respect it a great deal. It's just that it's so unique compared to the rest of the medium, and there's nothing else similar out there.

Episode 2 of Paranoia Agent is my favourite of his work. Being able to have me sympathize to such an extent with a smug little 12 year-old requires a monstrous amount of storytelling skills.

You respect that Satoshi Kon's work was unique, and wish that more creators would be similar to him?

Satoshi Kon had his own formula, with the surrealist art style, the cynical social commentary, and the intentionally off-putting character designs. That's one specific way for an auteur to go.

Compared to Bakemonogatari, Steins;Gate, Nichijou, and Fate/Zero, to name four random modern series, you can't honestly say that Paranoia Agent is more different from ALL OF THEM, than any of the others compared to each other.

I mean, how would you even measure that? These are entirely different genres out there, and "surrealist social critique" is but one of them.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Why is Golden Boy better than Fate/Zero?

Because Golden Boy is just that unapologetically funny and sexist. It's fucking glorious!

Behold, the biggest pimp in anime!

 

[Casual Shinji]

The thing is, I don't even really love his work that much. I do respect it a great deal. It's just that it's so unique compared to the rest of the medium, and there's nothing else similar out there.

Episode 2 of Paranoia Agent is my favourite of his work. Being able to have me sympathize to such an extent with a smug little 12 year-old requires a monstrous amount of storytelling skills.

You respect that Satoshi Kon's work was unique, and wish that more creators would be similar to him?

Satoshi Kon had his own formula, with the surrealist art style, the cynical social commentary, and the intentionally off-putting character designs. That's one specific way for an auteur to go.

Compared to Bakemonogatari, Steins;Gate, Nichijou, and Fate/Zero, to name four random modern series, you can't honestly say that Paranoia Agent is more different from ALL OF THEM, than any of the others compared to each other.

I mean, how would you even measure that? These are entirely different genres out there, and "surrealist social critique" is but one of them.

It's mainly a tropes thing, in that they don't seem to be there. And Kon adressing things other anime wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole: Homelessness, aids, the elderly. Heck, Paprika even had a morbidly obese man in a realistic setting.

 

[Edl01]

Why is Golden Boy better than Fate/Zero?

Because Golden Boy is just that unapologetically funny and sexist. It's fucking glorious!

Behold, the biggest pimp in anime!

That would work. I don't want good reasoning, I just wish Bennett would give some sort of reason WHY the 80s was a "Golden Age".

(Back on topic)Honestly if you forced me to say a Golden Age of anime I would probably point to Evangelion and say "around then", because Evangelion completely transformed the industry. Evangelion is the "The Dark Knight Rises" of anime, it took a medium that previously was fairly campy and not all that series and revolutionised the whole thing. It was the best selling anime of all time for near 15 years before it was finally overtaken by Bakemonogatari.
Some people like the direction that Evangelion sent the industry in, others...don't.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Honestly if you forced me to say a Golden Age of anime I would probably point to Evangelion and say "around then", because Evangelion completely transformed the industry. Evangelion is the "The Dark Knight Rises" of anime, it took a medium that previously was fairly campy and not all that series and revolutionised the whole thing. It was the best selling anime of all time for near 15 years before it was finally overtaken by Bakemonogatari.
Some people like the direction that Evangelion sent the industry in, others...don't.

I freaking love Evangelion, but I think with that it might've just been a case of being at the right place at the right time, sorta speak. Because before that there was already a lot of really heavy anime out there. With characters having heavy handed personal issues and the whole cast dying and whatnot. One of Gainax's first shows, Gunbuster, was already sporting a lot of these elements.

 

[Entitled]

It's mainly a tropes thing, in that they don't seem to be there. And Kon adressing things other anime wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole: Homelessness, aids, the elderly. Heck, Paprika even had a morbidly obese man in a realistic setting.

There is no such thing as a story without tropes. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/7190-Trope-a-Dope]

For literal examples, just visit the TVtropes pages for Paprika or Paranoia Agent.

An in the more general sense, if you mean that it's tropes are not as apparent, that's mostly because you are intentionally comparing it to the worst possible counterexamples.

Paprika talks about AIDS, and other anime doesn't, therefore Paprika is "original".

So what? Chihayafuru is about the card game of karuta and other anime doesn't therefore Chihayafuru is original.
Steins;Gate discusses the John Titor story and other anime doesn't, therefore Steins;Gate is original.
Nazo no Kanojo X shows drool-tasting fetishism and other anime doesn't, therefore Nazo no Kanojo X is original.

It's not that hard to be original in the sense of "bringing up themes that other anime don't".

Your measurment of "originality" has more to do with feeling classy and sophisticated about discussing social issues, than with the show actually being more different from others than those from each other.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

And pardon me for this, but the only thing Akira has of awesome is that perfect animation, the rest isn't that special.

Even if that were true, which it isn't, you say that like it's nothing.

Akira is the only anime (to my knowledge) that has lipsyncing, for Christ's sake. If there's one thing I'll critisize anime for it's that stubborness to not include that in every damn work, eventhough it results in much livelier characters.

The only other Anime I can think of is one of the Studio Ghibli films. I think it's called Whispers of the Heart?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

It's mainly a tropes thing, in that they don't seem to be there. And Kon adressing things other anime wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole: Homelessness, aids, the elderly. Heck, Paprika even had a morbidly obese man in a realistic setting.

There is no such thing as a story without tropes. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/7190-Trope-a-Dope]

The thing is, a good story will not build itself around Tropes. Tropes are the terms applied to storytelling conventions after the fact. If you start out a story by going "I'm going to make a story about a Shrinking Violet Woobie who Rages Against the Heavens while fighting the Big Bad who is a Complete Monster", you're doing it backwards.

A better way for him to put it would be to say that Kon doesn't let Tropes dictate his work. He writes a story and is rather unconventional while doing so, making it harder to pin down the conventions he is using.

 

[Edl01]

Honestly if you forced me to say a Golden Age of anime I would probably point to Evangelion and say "around then", because Evangelion completely transformed the industry. Evangelion is the "The Dark Knight Rises" of anime, it took a medium that previously was fairly campy and not all that series and revolutionised the whole thing. It was the best selling anime of all time for near 15 years before it was finally overtaken by Bakemonogatari.
Some people like the direction that Evangelion sent the industry in, others...don't.

I freaking love Evangelion, but I think with that it might've just been a case of being at the right place at the right time, sorta speak. Because before that there was already a lot of really heavy anime out there. With characters having heavy handed personal issues and the whole cast dying and whatnot. One of Gainax's first shows, Gunbuster, was already sporting a lot of these elements.

I haven't seen Gunbuster, but I'll definitly add it to my list for series I need to see, since I am pretty curious now about what it is like.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Honestly if you forced me to say a Golden Age of anime I would probably point to Evangelion and say "around then", because Evangelion completely transformed the industry. Evangelion is the "The Dark Knight Rises" of anime, it took a medium that previously was fairly campy and not all that series and revolutionised the whole thing. It was the best selling anime of all time for near 15 years before it was finally overtaken by Bakemonogatari.
Some people like the direction that Evangelion sent the industry in, others...don't.

I freaking love Evangelion, but I think with that it might've just been a case of being at the right place at the right time, sorta speak. Because before that there was already a lot of really heavy anime out there. With characters having heavy handed personal issues and the whole cast dying and whatnot. One of Gainax's first shows, Gunbuster, was already sporting a lot of these elements.

BUUUUSSSSTTTTEEEEEERRRRR BBBBEEEEAAAAAMMMMM!!!!!

I'm not a huge fan of Evangelion but I really love Gunbuster, partially because of all the ridiculous super science and hugely detailed robots. Also yeah... The Gunbuster March, Gunbuster Pose, Buster Beam and Izunama Kick might just be the greatest things ever.