The idea that backing down is a sign of maturity

[Ryuk2]

It's sign of maturity alright. If somebody gets angry at you, starts saying that he will kill you while saliva coming out of his mouth, and you say in a calm voice 'Calm down, your drunk and not able to fight now, just go, get some sleep. I'll call your buddies to pick you up.'' That's something that my brother did. He would have beat the shit out of the crazy drunk guy, but he didn't. That's maturity! What would happen if your always ''No, your stupid!'', ''I want to see you try and beat me!'', ''Ni ni ni ni ni ni, you suck!''.
You should always back down, but don't be a pussy and don't run away.

 

[Lord George]

I was always told if someone hits you hit him otherwise just flip them the finger and walk away. It's served me well except I've changed my fathers words more to the line of if he looks like he might hit you, hit him first. Just in case.

But I would never just back down, thats simply a sign of weakness, at least storm off telling them their not worth it.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Being mature is avoiding conflict. I never have a need to fight, mainly because I find that you should not only accept your faults, but make an effort to change them.

 

[FROGGEman2]

Maturity is a standpoint of thought, but you know all the douches that get into fights and no-one really likes?

I'd call them immature, wouldn't you?

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

If you're not being forced into the fight, yet you choose to fight anyway to prove how tough you are, how is that mature?

And if you are being forced to fight, then maturity doesn't come into it.

The only time fighting could be consider mature is when you choose to fight to protect someone else. And even then it would depend on the circumstances.

This...

I know we're all a bunch of Ayn Rand worshipping wankers who think that might is right and that Strength based Anarchy would be the best way to run the world yadda yadda yadda yadda

You sound like a bunch of 14 year olds who are displeased you can't get your way all the time and beat up people who make you angry without feeling guilt.

... and, this.

It's all about picking your battles, but for the most part - no. Just no.
Look around, find out if it's worth it. You'll find that often times it's not.

Anecdote: Was going to write it all out, but it came down to this. Drunk guy, holding me against a wall, telling me to stop laughing at him.

Instead of immediately throwing punches, I quickly looked around.
I was with a good set of friends of mine (people who I'm still good friends with), girls who absolutely abhor fighting.

The guy was far past intoxicated, so if I did choose to fight him, what then? I got to prove I could beat a guy who could barely stand on his own?
Possibly lose a good set of some of my best friends?

I stopped laughing, but I was still grinning throughout the whole situation. He notices, and is still pretty angry, but eventually realises that telling me to stop grinning isn't working on me.
Eventually he lets me go, saying weakly "Stop laughing" as he walked off.

Shortly after being refused entrance into the club we were near again, he walked off down the street, one of the bouncers followining him about 10 metres behind, on the phone to the police, telling them of the intoxicated man's location.

I got out of a could-be fight with renewed respect from my friends, and nothing bad from it. The guy was caught by the police until he sobered up.

If anyone could tell me how that situation could have been improved on by me starting a fight with him, I'm all ears.

 

[traceur_]

Why is maturity an issue?

How is the mature option better than the alternative?

Fighting is fun, fun is good, therefore: fighting is good.

If you don't want to fight then just don't, maturity has nothing to do with it. Despite what a bunch of pacifistic wankers will say, you can't talk your way out of all your problems, physical dominance as an instinctive urge, always has been, always will be.

 

[traceur_]

Anecdote: Was going to write it all out, but it came down to this. Drunk guy, holding me against a wall, telling me to stop laughing at him.

Instead of immediately throwing punches, I quickly looked around.
I was with a good set of friends of mine (people who I'm still good friends with), girls who absolutely abhor fighting.

The guy was far past intoxicated, so if I did choose to fight him, what then? I got to prove I could beat a guy who could barely stand on his own?
Possibly lose a good set of some of my best friends?

I stopped laughing, but I was still grinning throughout the whole situation. He notices, and is still pretty angry, but eventually realises that telling me to stop grinning isn't working on me.
Eventually he lets me go, saying weakly "Stop laughing" as he walked off.

Shortly after being refused entrance into the club we were near again, he walked off down the street, one of the bouncers followining him about 10 metres behind, on the phone to the police, telling them of the intoxicated man's location.

I got out of a could-be fight with renewed respect from my friends, and nothing bad from it. The guy was caught by the police until he sobered up.

If anyone could tell me how that situation could have been improved on by me starting a fight with him, I'm all ears.

It's a lot faster.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Frankly, it's situational.

If, say, someone just insulted me, or was being a cock, I might put them in place, verbally, but I would not start throwing punches. I'd happily respond with violence in sef-defence, and probably enjoy it, but starting fights is not a good idea.

If, say, someone was threatening violence against someone else, or myself, then I'd have no problem using violence against them. I'm picking a lot of 'No, violence is bad' vibes from this thread, which is frankly rot. Violence is neutral, and can be quite fun for the person dishing it out, and at times it's often neccessary to remind people of the consequences of their actions.

So, basically, I follow advice my father gave me. "You don't go out and cause trouble, but if trouble finds you, you end the trouble."

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

Anecdote: Was going to write it all out, but it came down to this. Drunk guy, holding me against a wall, telling me to stop laughing at him.

Instead of immediately throwing punches, I quickly looked around.
I was with a good set of friends of mine (people who I'm still good friends with), girls who absolutely abhor fighting.

The guy was far past intoxicated, so if I did choose to fight him, what then? I got to prove I could beat a guy who could barely stand on his own?
Possibly lose a good set of some of my best friends?

I stopped laughing, but I was still grinning throughout the whole situation. He notices, and is still pretty angry, but eventually realises that telling me to stop grinning isn't working on me.
Eventually he lets me go, saying weakly "Stop laughing" as he walked off.

Shortly after being refused entrance into the club we were near again, he walked off down the street, one of the bouncers followining him about 10 metres behind, on the phone to the police, telling them of the intoxicated man's location.

I got out of a could-be fight with renewed respect from my friends, and nothing bad from it. The guy was caught by the police until he sobered up.

If anyone could tell me how that situation could have been improved on by me starting a fight with him, I'm all ears.

It's a lot faster.

The whole thing was over in about... 5 minutes?

Had I gotten into a fight, if it was broken up by the police (who were roaming the street that night - concert in town), and I was caught, plenty of time wasted there with the police.

If it wasn't broken up, then fight takes... half a min, probably?
Then getting caught by one of the bouncers, same deal with talking to the police.
If we ran away, then I'd probably have to make my own way home (one of the girls lives near me)...

Overall, "a lot faster" is not true...

 

[traceur_]

Anecdote: Was going to write it all out, but it came down to this. Drunk guy, holding me against a wall, telling me to stop laughing at him.

Instead of immediately throwing punches, I quickly looked around.
I was with a good set of friends of mine (people who I'm still good friends with), girls who absolutely abhor fighting.

The guy was far past intoxicated, so if I did choose to fight him, what then? I got to prove I could beat a guy who could barely stand on his own?
Possibly lose a good set of some of my best friends?

I stopped laughing, but I was still grinning throughout the whole situation. He notices, and is still pretty angry, but eventually realises that telling me to stop grinning isn't working on me.
Eventually he lets me go, saying weakly "Stop laughing" as he walked off.

Shortly after being refused entrance into the club we were near again, he walked off down the street, one of the bouncers followining him about 10 metres behind, on the phone to the police, telling them of the intoxicated man's location.

I got out of a could-be fight with renewed respect from my friends, and nothing bad from it. The guy was caught by the police until he sobered up.

If anyone could tell me how that situation could have been improved on by me starting a fight with him, I'm all ears.

It's a lot faster.

The whole thing was over in about... 5 minutes?

Had I gotten into a fight, if it was broken up by the police (who were roaming the street that night - concert in town), and I was caught, plenty of time wasted there with the police.

If it wasn't broken up, then fight takes... half a min, probably?
Then getting caught by one of the bouncers, same deal with talking to the police.
If we ran away, then I'd probably have to make my own way home (one of the girls lives near me)...

Overall, "a lot faster" is not true...

Well, you ask without giving context, circumstance or the skill of the individuals involved, you're going to get a limited answer.

Still I say, you can easily put him to the ground fairly gently, if he was as drunk as you say he wouldn't stand up for a while, and you'd be on your merry way in about thirty seconds.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I was never told this as a child. My folks just said ?Harry always, ALWAYS seek revenge and never, NEVER back down.?

I think you should thank your folks. They obviously told you this because you were the runt of your family and would not have done well if you had to stand up for your self.

 

[can't-think]

I won't bother fighting anyone if they're just insulting me if they throw a punch I'll fight back though, walking away and just letting people do what they want encourages them to do it again. Of course if there is more than 5 people I'll just walk away lol.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

The whole thing was over in about... 5 minutes?

Had I gotten into a fight, if it was broken up by the police (who were roaming the street that night - concert in town), and I was caught, plenty of time wasted there with the police.

If it wasn't broken up, then fight takes... half a min, probably?
Then getting caught by one of the bouncers, same deal with talking to the police.
If we ran away, then I'd probably have to make my own way home (one of the girls lives near me)...

Overall, "a lot faster" is not true...

Well, you ask without giving context, circumstance or the skill of the individuals involved, you're going to get a limited answer.

Still I say, you can easily put him to the ground fairly gently, if he was as drunk as you say he wouldn't stand up for a while, and you'd be on your merry way in about thirty seconds.

Again, I said it was a shortened version, excluding some of the small details.
It was just one example that came to mind.

But just for reference then (apologies for leaving it out before, but I didn't think it was needed):
He was drunk, that doesn't mean he'd know when he was beaten. I.e. he was of the mindset that if he was gonna do something, he'd try his hardest, until the end. Including in a fight.
He was also kind of a "bogan" kid, to use such a term. I.e. it was late at night, but he still decided it would be a good idea to walk around in naught but a singlet, shorts, and shoes. Which made it easy to see that he had some muscles, and this probably wouldn't have been his first fight while intoxicated.
He was also holding me up against the wall, hard. He was holding in such a way that no punch could have been thrown (effectively, at least), so it was either kick, or break his hold, either would have been hard since he was close (so a kick would've just been a mild knee, and the breaking of his hold might not work too well).
Umm...
So, basically, the only way to start the fight, was to begin with a disadvantage, or wait for him to walk off and then throw a punch or kick him.

Again, sorry for not saying these details before, but what I said before was just an example. Details are here now though.

 

[NoriYuki Sato]

From an early age it was drilled into my head that walking away form a fight made me the bigger man. That laying low instead of standing up for myself would serve best. But my whole life I've always had an issue with this, it always seemed to make no sense. Why shouldn't somebody defend himself? Wouldn't the mature person be brave enough to fight back?

I was thinking about this today and an idea hit me: it seems that this lesson is drilled into our heads to make things easier for the authority. Parents teach it to prevent fights between siblings(or keep the favorite from being stood up to.) Teachers teach it to try and cut down on fights. And of course all authority everywhere benefits from a more docile populace.

And that's where it gets a bit screwy for me. Is walking away really a sign of maturity? Or is it just something we're taught to make it easier for the higher ups? I'm by no means a "might makes right" type of guy, but I've always been irked that we're encouraged not to fight back.

in my opinion, it's knowing when to stand up and when to fight back that's a sign of maturity. i usually walk away from fights and lay low unless it has to do with my friends or family. people can threaten me all they want, but if they try to intimidate my friends, i'll stand up for them and i'll fight for them. to me it's not only a sign of maturity, but also a sign of trust and knowledge.

 

[Syntax Error]

From an early age it was drilled into my head that walking away form a fight made me the bigger man. That laying low instead of standing up for myself would serve best. But my whole life I've always had an issue with this, it always seemed to make no sense. Why shouldn't somebody defend himself? Wouldn't the mature person be brave enough to fight back?

I was thinking about this today and an idea hit me: it seems that this lesson is drilled into our heads to make things easier for the authority. Parents teach it to prevent fights between siblings(or keep the favorite from being stood up to.) Teachers teach it to try and cut down on fights. And of course all authority everywhere benefits from a more docile populace.

And that's where it gets a bit screwy for me. Is walking away really a sign of maturity? Or is it just something we're taught to make it easier for the higher ups? I'm by no means a "might makes right" type of guy, but I've always been irked that we're encouraged not to fight back.

It's just a friendlier, more practical version of saying "Don't start a fight you can't win". More than anything, that is a good life lesson, because you can easily discern which battles to fight (after all, grinding a-la RPG in real life is tiring).

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

It's easier to teach kids one thing or the other, and then let them sort it out for themselves when they're older. Maturity is probably more along the lines of 'being able to choose the things which are important enough to stand up for.' It's hard for kids to understand that sort of idea, because they'll fight for everything.

So it just makes things easier, because you can either teach them, 'fight for everything' or 'back down.' Backing down causes less fights, is a generally more civilised way of doing things, and means that due to social conditioning other people will see them as mature, which helps them. Then when they're older they develop the sense of having things which are right to fight for.

 

[Umwerfer]

cowardice is one thing, but you aren't necessarily a coward if you chose to ignore provocation. It's easier to throw a punch than it is to resist the urge to throw one. generally, one walks away if 'you walking away' prevents injuries, and you stand tall if walking away inflicts injuries (say sombody threatening/bullying someone else)

 

[traceur_]

The whole thing was over in about... 5 minutes?

Had I gotten into a fight, if it was broken up by the police (who were roaming the street that night - concert in town), and I was caught, plenty of time wasted there with the police.

If it wasn't broken up, then fight takes... half a min, probably?
Then getting caught by one of the bouncers, same deal with talking to the police.
If we ran away, then I'd probably have to make my own way home (one of the girls lives near me)...

Overall, "a lot faster" is not true...

Well, you ask without giving context, circumstance or the skill of the individuals involved, you're going to get a limited answer.

Still I say, you can easily put him to the ground fairly gently, if he was as drunk as you say he wouldn't stand up for a while, and you'd be on your merry way in about thirty seconds.

Again, I said it was a shortened version, excluding some of the small details.
It was just one example that came to mind.

But just for reference then (apologies for leaving it out before, but I didn't think it was needed):
He was drunk, that doesn't mean he'd know when he was beaten. I.e. he was of the mindset that if he was gonna do something, he'd try his hardest, until the end. Including in a fight.
He was also kind of a "bogan" kid, to use such a term. I.e. it was late at night, but he still decided it would be a good idea to walk around in naught but a singlet, shorts, and shoes. Which made it easy to see that he had some muscles, and this probably wouldn't have been his first fight while intoxicated.
He was also holding me up against the wall, hard. He was holding in such a way that no punch could have been thrown (effectively, at least), so it was either kick, or break his hold, either would have been hard since he was close (so a kick would've just been a mild knee, and the breaking of his hold might not work too well).
Umm...
So, basically, the only way to start the fight, was to begin with a disadvantage, or wait for him to walk off and then throw a punch or kick him.

Again, sorry for not saying these details before, but what I said before was just an example. Details are here now though.

Okay, I would say you could have kicked him in the balls, that tends to knock us guys down for a while, if you couldn't reach then I'm stumped.

I think it's unwise to rule out fighting in all situations, not practical in all but fighting has solved a lot of my problems. I fought back to a bully and we became friends because I'd earned his respect,

 

[The Hairminator]

Backing down is mature because you realize that you should avoid fighting, even if it means loss of honor.
This statement is ofcourse pretty bullshitty- You should always draw the line somewhere, otherwise I'd not feel very good about myself.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

Okay, I would say you could have kicked him in the balls, that tends to knock us guys down for a while, if you couldn't reach then I'm stumped.

I think it's unwise to rule out fighting in all situations, not practical in all but fighting has solved a lot of my problems. I fought back to a bully and we became friends because I'd earned his respect,

Oh, sorry, don't get me wrong.
I've fought before.
But I'm of the opinion that if it's just me, there's rarely a point unless I'm literally forced into it.

But if my friends, family, girlfriend etc. are in trouble, I've "stepped up" for them before, mostly to (as you suggested I did with this guy) incapacitate whoever's going against my friends or family, so far as to calm him down and put a stop to it.

To your comment about getting him in the balls, well... Again, previous comment of mine.
All it would have done is led to a different series of events, that would've just slowed me down as opposed to speeding the situation up...