The Idiosyncrasies of Lara Croft

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zinho73

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So the new Tom Raider is out and the first thing that I heard about it from the women reviewing it is that it is really cool but there is a disconnection between the story and the actions of Miss Croft.

To be specific, the story is about a young woman who is experiencing some harsh stuff and is dealing with it, becoming the bad ass everyone knows and love. In one scene she is crying about killing a deer and twenty minutes later she is killing everything with aplomb.

Some people seem to think that this is somehow inappropriate.

Well, I disagree.

First, it is a videogame. This media is very different from a movie and a lot of unrealistic things must happen so it can be playable and fun. So, if you are gonna really pay attention to this kind of stuff, the progression of Lara abilities in killing will be the least of your problems.

She carries way to much stuff, she endures way too much stuff, she has impossible upper body strength, she fires a bow as quick as an automatic pistol and so on. In the cut scenes, her character progression is consistent and even in the gameplay, she is very self aware of how bad ass she is becoming, with some little snips of commentary that are both fun and functional.

Second, Tomb Raider is not a ?realistic? take on Lara Croft. So, even if it were a movie, you should be thinking Die Hard and Indiana Jones ? the idea is clearly to work the template of an apparently common guy/girl doing impossible things against impossible odds.

The character development stuff is there to enhance the apparent frailty of the character and to make all the cool stuff she does seems even more impossible and exciting ? and the game succeeds on that on several levels ? and maybe it succeeds too much, because when you are saying that Lara is killing everything is sight, you are forgetting that who is actually doing that is you.

My Lara just killed animal life for food (not just XP) and she avoided combat when possible, if your Lara is a psychopath that?s not my problem. Granted, there is a bit of Role playing mentality behind that ? but if you are going to take everything to the letter why are you playing a videogame in the first place?

In any case, I don?t think Tomb Raider breaks its internal consistency. The general story of the game is not that great though, but this is another issue entirely.

I think the game presents a fairly entertaining take on the old trope ?you either become a master killer or you die?. Perspective, folks, perspective.

Also, it is becoming quite common to see games with more focus on story and character development being reviewed as a movie and not as a game. In a game story must be enough to be immersive but too many might get in the way: a lot must be left to the player imagination, otherwise the media is not playing to its strengths.
 

Savagezion

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Nah, they fudged it a little. But it isn't like games havent been doing this all along. To me it makes sense that with a 40 hour game slow character progression would be easy. ONe could argue that she sympathizes with the deer being prey on an island of predators and being taken out. Something about relating to its fear. But I would have to play it before I could really back that idea. Odds are they fudged it worrying about gameplay over story. Gameplay being primary focus isn't a free pass for poor writing. Poor development is poor development regardless of a separate quality in the game. IN a game, story and gameplay should have good synergy, ideally. Simply limiting your ammo heavily could press the player not to act like a psychopath and even encouraging playing to a survivalist. Instant synergy with the story.
 

Casual Shinji

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After making a hubbub about how gritty and real this incarnation of a fledgling Lara Croft was going to be, not adjusting the gameplay to that would pretty much break that whole arc, now wouldn't it?

Crystal Dynamics probably couldn't think of engaging gameplay that didn't envolve shooting dudes. But then they're not the only developers with that problem.
 

Smooth Operator

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No, disconnects in story and gameplay are not ever required, it's just that the bar is so low this shit is acceptable to the audience, mostly we need to be happy if there is some semblance of story at all.
Just goes to show how bad game makers still are at presentation.
 

Dryk

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zinho73 said:
Second, Tomb Raider is not a ?realistic? take on Lara Croft.
It's a gritty reboot origin story... I figured it was supposed to be. I mean they redesigned her to look more realistic, the demos they showed seemed to be going for realism.

It's not impossible to actually have the gameplay reflect the character arc, and if you're not going to do it why bother with that particular character arc to begin with?
 

zinho73

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
No, gameplay and story segregation is a thing, and it's been a thing for ages. More importantly, gameplay and story integration has also been a thing for a while now.

If developers are trying to give their story some sort of weight, yet cannot somehow work around the disconnect between cutscenes and gameplay, then on some level at least, they've failed. It creates a schizophrenic situation where characters abide by two completely conflicting sets of rules, which ruins cohesion.
But that's my point, everything is pretty much cohesive in the game. It is just that it goes in the direction of an action flick and not a gritty, realistic drama.
 

zinho73

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Casual Shinji said:
After making a hubbub about how gritty and real this incarnation of a fledgling Lara Croft was going to be, not adjusting the gameplay to that would pretty much break that whole arc, now wouldn't it?

Crystal Dynamics probably couldn't think of engaging gameplay that didn't envolve shooting dudes. But then they're not the only developers with that problem.
Well, one can argue if the Tomb raider series should be about shooting dudes (maybe not), but my point is that this game was always about shooting dudes - this is not about a reluctant and regretful Lara - it is about a scared Lara that is capable of things that even her wouldn't imagine.

There's a key, brief dialogue that I dig a lot.

Lara tells Ross that she killed a few men. Roos replies that it should have been very difficult and Lara just says that she is actually amazed how easy it was.
 

zinho73

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
No, gameplay and story segregation is a thing, and it's been a thing for ages. More importantly, gameplay and story integration has also been a thing for a while now.

If developers are trying to give their story some sort of weight, yet cannot somehow work around the disconnect between cutscenes and gameplay, then on some level at least, they've failed. It creates a schizophrenic situation where characters abide by two completely conflicting sets of rules, which ruins cohesion.
Graphic realism is not the same as story realism. The jumps Lara makes in the game are superhero stuff. The whole thing is as realistic as an Indiana Jones or Die Hard movie.
 

Chaos Incarnate

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It's a clear example of story/game play segregation, maybe it could have been helped or enhanced if after killing several animals/people in a row she'd throw up or freak out but as the game progressed this would happen with less frequency. Let's at least be happen that the re-boot isn't a shit game.
 

The Madman

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Meet Nathaniel, father of two and loving husband to his wife Mary. When his ship capsized and he was stranded on a strange dangerous island, he knew he'd do whatever it took to see them again. To see the smile on Mary's face in the morning or to hear his daughters laughter. To that end he joined up with this whole cult thing, he didn't believe any of it, the image of his family was far too strong in his mind to even be broken by these beliefs, but he knew that in order to get off this damned rock and to see the*BAM*...

Lol headshot, 5xp. Now Lara can almost unlock the uber gruesome pickaxe backstab before a cutscene where the game tells us how vulnerable and inexperienced she is pops up.
 

Maximum Bert

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Havent played it yet but if they sacrificed playability for some slavish attempt at realism I would be pissed off also how long would it take to turn from rookie to seasoned killer? a bit longer than most people would be willing to play I bet a few years maybe?

Im able to suspend my disbelief I would be less forgiving in a book but movies also sacrifice realism for watch-ability on many occasions and as long as its entertaining I dont care. I am not going to argue she is a deep character or not because I havent played the game but she cant be any more shallow than she was before imo.
 

Negatempest

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Wouldn't the most obvious thing to do would be to bring her stealth and 1v1 to 1v2 fights in the island, or exploration/detective work? Until about the mid-point of the game it picks up more action-y with Laura getting more comfortable in what she is doing.... But that could just be me.
 

zinho73

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The Madman said:
Meet Nathaniel, father of two and loving husband to his wife Mary. When his ship capsized and he was stranded on a strange dangerous island, he knew he'd do whatever it took to see them again. To see the smile on Mary's face in the morning or to hear his daughters laughter. To that end he joined up with this whole cult thing, he didn't believe any of it, the image of his family was far too strong in his mind to even be broken by these beliefs, but he knew that in order to get off this damned rock and to see the*BAM*...

Lol headshot, 5xp. Now Lara can almost unlock the uber gruesome pickaxe backstab before a cutscene where the game tells us how vulnerable and inexperienced she is pops up.
A headshot would actually net you at least 15XP.

Look, if I'm on an island in which people are shooting at me on sight, I couldn't care less about Natahaniel, because I have my own children to get back to.

I think it is very nice that she keeps repeating to herself that she can do it, reinforcing that she is in a constant state of paranoia and pressure. And surprising everyone that she can actually do it - the banter of the solari is priceless:

- She is just a girl!
- How did she do it?
- Where the hell did she get a grenade launcher?
 

zinho73

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Negatempest said:
Wouldn't the most obvious thing to do would be to bring her stealth and 1v1 to 1v2 fights in the island, or exploration/detective work? Until about the mid-point of the game it picks up more action-y with Laura getting more comfortable in what she is doing.... But that could just be me.
It is actually more or less like this. You can bypass a lot of the combat in the game (most people don't even try that) and most huge firefights happen when she is kind of forced to go into the bandits "lair".
 

zinho73

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Chaos Incarnate said:
It's a clear example of story/game play segregation, maybe it could have been helped or enhanced if after killing several animals/people in a row she'd throw up or freak out but as the game progressed this would happen with less frequency. Let's at least be happen that the re-boot isn't a shit game.
And I also think that the rest of the story is kind of weak and don't support her character development very well. There is indeed fragmentation in the story and the player must assume a lot of things, but being unrealistic is not a flaw of the game - it is one of its goals.
 

The Madman

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zinho73 said:
A headshot would actually net you at least 15XP.

Look, if I'm on an island in which people are shooting at me on sight, I couldn't care less about Natahaniel, because I have my own children to get back to.

I think it is very nice that she keeps repeating to herself that she can do it, reinforcing that she is in a constant state of paranoia and pressure. And surprising everyone that she can actually do it - the banter of the solari is priceless:

- She is just a girl!
- How did she do it?
- Where the hell did she get a grenade launcher?
You know what would have worked better?

Make the game set in a vast and hostile foreign environment. Make it unexplored and dangerous, filled with all sorts of potential pitfall for an unwary explorer. Something that would test Lara's strength and will without her having to murder hundreds of nameless people in order to do it and break the narrative coherence. It would also be a breath of fresh air I think to have a modern game not about murdering hundreds of people.

Maybe they could add in a series of clever puzzles and even keep human interaction at a minimum to emphasize Lara's relative isolation. Make it about exploration and puzzle solving with a splash of danger in the form of environmental threats or even strange and exotic animals. That way when and if you do encounter another person and they turn out to be hostile, the moment is all the more impactful and threatening.

Man, that sounds awesome although I can't help but feel that's been done... oh, what was that game called again?

Oh yeah, it was Tomb Raider. Y'know, before it became about big tits & action sequences, and now gore and shooting people.
 

zinho73

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Maximum Bert said:
Havent played it yet but if they sacrificed playability for some slavish attempt at realism I would be pissed off also how long would it take to turn from rookie to seasoned killer? a bit longer than most people would be willing to play I bet a few years maybe?

Im able to suspend my disbelief I would be less forgiving in a book but movies also sacrifice realism for watch-ability on many occasions and as long as its entertaining I dont care. I am not going to argue she is a deep character or not because I havent played the game but she cant be any more shallow than she was before imo.
She is indeed still a shallow character, and maybe people are frustrated that Crystal Dynamics did not took the opportunity to make a more rounded character. But I guess her development is very on par with a lot of good action movies.
 

zinho73

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The Madman said:
zinho73 said:
A headshot would actually net you at least 15XP.

Look, if I'm on an island in which people are shooting at me on sight, I couldn't care less about Natahaniel, because I have my own children to get back to.

I think it is very nice that she keeps repeating to herself that she can do it, reinforcing that she is in a constant state of paranoia and pressure. And surprising everyone that she can actually do it - the banter of the solari is priceless:

- She is just a girl!
- How did she do it?
- Where the hell did she get a grenade launcher?
You know what would have worked better?

Make the game set in a vast and hostile foreign environment. Make it unexplored and dangerous, filled with all sorts of potential pitfall for an unwary explorer. Something that would test Lara's strength and will without her having to murder hundreds of nameless people in order to do it and break the narrative coherence. It would also be a breath of fresh air I think to have a modern game not about murdering hundreds of people.

Maybe they could add in a series of clever puzzles and even keep human interaction at a minimum to emphasize Lara's relative isolation. Make it about exploration and puzzle solving with a splash of danger in the form of environmental threats or even strange and exotic animals. That way when and if you do encounter another person and they turn out to be hostile, the moment is all the more impactful and threatening.

Man, that sounds awesome although I can't help but feel that's been done... oh, what was that game called again?

Oh yeah, it was Tomb Raider. Y'know, before it became about big tits & action sequences, and now gore and shooting people.
I mostly agree with you. The Tomb Raider series could and should be much more about exploration. It doesn't mean this game is not cohesive. It just means that this is not the game you want it to be.
 

WoW Killer

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I thought the whole story emphasis was a bit of a red herring anyway. The original wasn't much of a narrative. You're one person alone for the majority of the game, and there's not a fat lot of dialogue. So if they've cocked up that side of it, I can only say more fool them for trying.

Speaking of which, there wasn't a fat lot of shooting in the original either. It's supposed to be about exploration and puzzle solving. I've read conflicting reviews about that side. Like some have said the whole tomb sections are a bit side-quest-ey with no real point to them, while others have said that's the best part of it. I'll give it a fair look anyway.