The ism's in gaming
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No, I can wake from a nightmare.LisaB1138 said:
You're just the epitome of blinkered feminism. Someone who wants more than they deserve because they feel aligned to someone in the past that really suffered.
You are talking about the equality of sexual imagery without the caveat of what sexual imagery is. Males (in general) have a stronger visual reaction whilst Females have a stronger emotional reaction.
That means that a woman in a bikini is the same 'strength' as a man rescuing a child, or some other such metaphor.
Now, if that woman chose it, it's for her and is therefore good. If her mum chose it, it's bad or good. If her dad chose it, then it's creepy and if her husband chose it, it was exploitation by the huddled male masses.
It's a piece of clothing. That's all.
For fucks sake, you're arguing against women having unrealistic size but as soon as one has a realistic size, you're arguing that it's sexist.
Before my blood vessels burst here, define what you want to be equal, and what you're prepared to give up to achieve that equality.
And if you don't want to give anything up, then you're just a leech.
Feminism is useless now. There need not be it, or any male-centred version. We just need a social theory that discusses gender stereotypes. Feminism does this, but naturally leans towards female victimisation.
Women, in the West at least, have equal rights. They do. There are still pay discrepancies, is sexism in the work place etc, but this is steadily getting better as the oldies are turfed out. And die. Alone.
We also need to discuss as to whether social stereotypes are such a bad thing. Why do we think that seeing a muscly, heroic man or a hot, sexy woman is something to aspire to you? Is the fault not with ourselves?
Women, in the West at least, have equal rights. They do. There are still pay discrepancies, is sexism in the work place etc, but this is steadily getting better as the oldies are turfed out. And die. Alone.
We also need to discuss as to whether social stereotypes are such a bad thing. Why do we think that seeing a muscly, heroic man or a hot, sexy woman is something to aspire to you? Is the fault not with ourselves?
Yes sexism is dieing in the west but it is not gone. A large number of men feel threatened, by radical feminist and racism is growing even today. Look at the presidential election in the U.S. People are siding with a Bush clone over a black man, when 75% of the population hate Bush.OurGloriousLeader said:
Also with more radical feminist they play the vendictive card pushing and chasing away any one who question their methods and scaring away moderates. That is the biggest problem with attempting to create real social change.
Though like women's magazines using negitive sterotypes of women so do black and other ethnic magazines. Look at BET (Black Entertainment Television a network that runs in the US), much like Cosmo it portrays a negitive sterotype of Black people yet it is geared towards them. Even the PC term for black people is a confusing one. In the states we're told to call black people African Americans and if you study Poli-Sci like I do you realize a glaring problem.
Oh, and for the 'leap of logic'
You went from "Sex doesn't sell for women"
to "Sex doesn't sell apart from Cosmo"
to "Sex doesn't sell in fashion magazines"
to "Magazines don't say you should wear a bikini to work"
Which I'm quite sure that if I do a little digging, I can find one.
Oh dear...And I found one... [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16873843/]
Now, is Lori exploiting her crew because of TEH EVIL MALE OVERLORDS, or just that there's a lot of lonely people who enjoy a little bit of titillation?
You went from "Sex doesn't sell for women"
to "Sex doesn't sell apart from Cosmo"
to "Sex doesn't sell in fashion magazines"
to "Magazines don't say you should wear a bikini to work"
Which I'm quite sure that if I do a little digging, I can find one.
Oh dear...And I found one... [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16873843/]
Now, is Lori exploiting her crew because of TEH EVIL MALE OVERLORDS, or just that there's a lot of lonely people who enjoy a little bit of titillation?
Now...if a man could earn $80-$150 dollars a day on top of their wage, just by wearing speedos, I'm reasonably sure there'd be a LOT of Mexicans/Polish/Indians lining up to do it, and they'll never command the prices a girl could pull in.
1.In Egypt women have more rights then men do.OurGloriousLeader said:
2.Are those 'oldies' a figment of the glass ceiling that is often mentioned? I mean, a woman can't achieve a top job (say ceo of a big company) until the guy who worked his way up there dies/gets sacked/resigns, right?
But that would be sexist ...The_root_of_all_evil said:
Ahem...
Rave whine whine moan stereotype rant. My 2 cents.
You know what really pisses me off? When people pull the *I'm a minority being oppressed by white man* card to further themselves dishonestly. Also, this thread is/has degenerating/ed into mud-slinging and comparing blood on hands. Women are human beings too, and have the right to vote. Can we as a species please move onwards?
More does not mean equal. In Egypt these "rights" are mostly to protect them against cruelty not actually create a fair or equal society. The mid east has since the Kalif fell after ww1 been opressive to women. You know like how poor white guys hate mexicans. Or how people that can't get it up hate women.HBrutusH said:
(EDIT): Note this is not really an anti islamic or anti middle eastern statement but one of government and culture. Much like how my own government has laws that permit torture, this does not mean that every one in my country practices it or thinks it is moral.
I apologize if my post came off as a ignorant fucktarding because that was not my intention.
And the prejudice keeps growing. Think you're right Lews, I'm outa here before I get too wound up.jdguy said:
Lol... Facts and prejudice are different. Look at history and you'll see that this is true. Ever since the West toppled the Ottoman Empire (well after they where finnaly allowd to self govern as long as they play by the west's rules), the dictators and religious fanatics that have sprung up to lead the people have created a terribly sexist structures all in the lie that its in the Koran.The_root_of_all_evil said:
I'm threatened by radical feminism. Doesn't make me sexist. In fact, I would say they are the sexist ones, that's my original point.
Of course, I might just be sub consciously sexist, but I don't think so. I was raised by a single teenage mother and I know how much hard work she put in to raising me and getting a good job (and yes, even getting me a few computer games!). I treat my girlfriends, and women, with more respect and equality (that doesn't mean pussy-footing - it means I mock them just as much as other friends, proportionate to their personality). My dislike of Feminism came from studying its effects on social theory and literature in 2 separate courses. In the former, the fact that men commit more crime than women is heralded as some sort of feminist achievement and blamed on higher testosterone, which runs parallel to the old idea that black people (who commit more crime, statistically) are genetically more likely. In the latter, feminist literature, everything is picked up and blamed on men, whilst hideous female writings like Bridget Jones are ignored. In one lecture the pen was blamed for being phallic! Honestly, what should we write with, sponges?
What was I on about? I don't know, I've had a few beers. I'm not really going to comment on racism, since it isn't as much as an issue over here in the UK. Is McCain honestly getting more support? I was under the impression Obama was, he certainly is here in Europe. (Interestingly, Obama isn't in spellcheck but Osama is...McCain should use that!). 'African Americans' as a PC term is fairly ludicrous, but then I don't believe in PC. Nobody is actually enforcing that rule, it's white middle class guilt.
Anyway, end slightly hazy rant.
Of course, I might just be sub consciously sexist, but I don't think so. I was raised by a single teenage mother and I know how much hard work she put in to raising me and getting a good job (and yes, even getting me a few computer games!). I treat my girlfriends, and women, with more respect and equality (that doesn't mean pussy-footing - it means I mock them just as much as other friends, proportionate to their personality). My dislike of Feminism came from studying its effects on social theory and literature in 2 separate courses. In the former, the fact that men commit more crime than women is heralded as some sort of feminist achievement and blamed on higher testosterone, which runs parallel to the old idea that black people (who commit more crime, statistically) are genetically more likely. In the latter, feminist literature, everything is picked up and blamed on men, whilst hideous female writings like Bridget Jones are ignored. In one lecture the pen was blamed for being phallic! Honestly, what should we write with, sponges?
What was I on about? I don't know, I've had a few beers. I'm not really going to comment on racism, since it isn't as much as an issue over here in the UK. Is McCain honestly getting more support? I was under the impression Obama was, he certainly is here in Europe. (Interestingly, Obama isn't in spellcheck but Osama is...McCain should use that!). 'African Americans' as a PC term is fairly ludicrous, but then I don't believe in PC. Nobody is actually enforcing that rule, it's white middle class guilt.
Anyway, end slightly hazy rant.
No worries I was called a racist for pointing out a cultural biast against women due to a group of nations being ineffectivly governed after Colonization so I don't think any one will mind.OurGloriousLeader said:
Radical feminism is scary as it attempts to destroy gender roles even if the gender roles are made by logic (such as men being more capable than women on average to do heavy lifting). That being said the U.S. does suffer from more P.C. bs than Europe does but at the same time we ignore it a lot easer.
But it is true that McCain has a strong network of support in the U.S. Mostly in the South or by those who think that the war in Iraqi was a good idea. People in America are honestly afraid that Obama will:
A) Turn out to be a Muslim radical who will supply funds to the terrorist, compleatly ignoring the fact that African Muslims and Middle Eastern Muslims are in a different camp.
B) Pass laws that punish white people due to slavery and seggragation.
C) Be black (I know this one is half right but still... it sad)
and/or D: Let his crazy former Christian pastor be a political advisor.
The irony is that the group of people that hate Obama claim that he is both a radical christian and a radical muslim... so I am seriously starting to question the illegial voting test.
I will say that the irony here is that we are discussing 'sterotypes' in games by sterotyping 'men' 'women' teenage boys' teenage girls' 'sexists' 'feminists' 'game designers'. Nothing that has been said here informs me or represents me, furthermore, I dont believe a single person here would feel satisfied should the appropriate 'group' be 'punished'.
Saying that group x cant be discriminated against in a medium controlled by group x is ridiculous, and 'sterotyping' in itself.
From a certain points of view, everything in life is 'unfair' 'sexist' racist'. Spread the love I say. Thats how you make things better. Be the change you want in your life.
Saying that group x cant be discriminated against in a medium controlled by group x is ridiculous, and 'sterotyping' in itself.
From a certain points of view, everything in life is 'unfair' 'sexist' racist'. Spread the love I say. Thats how you make things better. Be the change you want in your life.
Well what made me laugh about the feminist gamer website is unlike other gaming websites they seem divorced to want to permit real discussion. When people came to the site to argue or even discuss the topic they flipped and called any one who did not follow rank and file a troll. To make matters worse when I called them on that they said "we have no loyalities than to our core". They are antaginizing any one who does not fully agree with them. Which in my humble opinion just makes people agree with you even less.
Take for instance modern American Republicans. They disagree with Bush so so much that they are going to the left instead of covering up their concious.
Take for instance modern American Republicans. They disagree with Bush so so much that they are going to the left instead of covering up their concious.
If the women themselves are defying the laws of gravity and motion with every step they take (*), I don't think it's really that reasonable to complain about their clothes doing the same thing. Fantastical garb is just as much a staple of over-the-top power fantasy as fantastical weaponry or great hair or sexy sculpted abs. There's nothing inherently wrong with blending sex and violence, either -- a classic narrative combination.LisaB1138 said:
What sucks (as far as blood-and-sex power fantasy is concerned) is the reign of the pseudo-sexy. American culture, both obsessed with and afraid of its sexuality, seems to have accepted any quantity of "T&A" but drawn the line at actually owning your sexiness. It's still largely taboo for characters to really express or act on their desires. Of course, men get to be just violent without being always-sexual, whereas way too many female characters are perpetually jiggling and posing in their obligatory steel thongs.
-- Alex
* - I don't mean with crazy giant digital boobs. I mean acrobatics and waving giant swords and riding space dragons and other stuff like that.