The Last of Us is no Masterpiece

[Nomanslander]

TLOU is a game that looks and feels like a masterpiece, and that is where most people get confused. A lot of money was put into it, and it was made by some really talented game designers. But truth of the matter is that doesn't mean anything. The real problem with the game is it's "safe." It's a game made with contemporary appeal: another freakin' zombie game, third-person cover-based, decent post apocalyptic story, front girl doing the "Jennifer Lawrence" while not the main... a scruffy 30 something white guy is the main = safe.

The game is safe. And a game that will be completely forgotten about in half a decade or so, no matter how highly praised it is now.

Really, there's nothing inspiring about the game. Gameplay wise it's nothing like Dark Souls or Gears of War where it pushes boundaries and and tries to create new norms. And story wise it's nothing like Bioshock or Skyrim where the game takes the player places never heard or seen.

Not a game that will pass the test of time. But in ten years will be remembered for nostalgic reasons, sorta like Syphon Filter is remembered now.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

TLOU isn't perfect when you rip apart all of it's gameplay mechanics and look at them seperated. Nothing aside from visuals and voicework, maybe story (to me for sure) is really outstanding. What makes this game a well remembered masterpiece is the mixture of all the components. There are minor flaws like the immersion breaking friendly ai wich shows up at some points (no deal breaker to me) but there's also the real good implemented upgrade and crafting system which stands out. It's simple but decisions matter.

Play it on hard and disable the listen mode and you'll finally get a mighty fine survival game with an outstanding presentation, a story not sucking and a discussion worthy ending (remember all those threads? different opinions, civil discussions, positive vibes ah good times). That's a well deserved GOTY.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The game is safe. And a game that will be completely forgotten about in half a decade or so, no matter how highly praised it is now.

Really, there's nothing inspiring about the game. Gameplay wise it's nothing like Dark Souls or Gears of War where it pushes boundaries and and tries to create new norms. And story wise it's nothing like Bioshock or Skyrim where the game takes the player places never heard or seen.

Not a game that will pass the test of time. But in ten years will be remembered for nostalgic reasons, sorta like Syphon Filter is remembered now.

You do realize that Skyrim itself has been criticized as being "baby's first Oblivion", and thereby seen as a game that played it way too safe. Not saying I agree with this (though I kind of do), just letting you know how subjective statements like 'timelesness' and 'inspiring' is in regards to things like games and movies. I'm sure there's plenty of people who still love Syphon Filter, because they just really like it and not due to nostalgia.

Everybody can dislike what they dislike, but saying things like 'nobody will remember it in 10 years except for nostalgic reasons' or 'people were fooled into thinking its a masterpiece' makes light of people who genuinely loved it. Especially when putting up other games as examples of true quality, as if it were fact.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Really, there's nothing inspiring about the game. Gameplay wise it's nothing like Dark Souls or Gears of War where it pushes boundaries and and tries to create new norms. And story wise it's nothing like Bioshock or Skyrim where the game takes the player places never heard or seen.

Not a game that will pass the test of time. But in ten years will be remembered for nostalgic reasons, sorta like Syphon Filter is remembered now.

Dark Souls or Gears didn't push the boundaries of gameplay. I'm not even gonna get back into Dark Souls but just blocking and attacking has been done long, long ago. Dragon's Dogma has much more innovative gameplay (and Deep Down will likely be better than Bloodborne). Gears is nothing special gameplay-wise, it doesn't even have a shoulder swap. TPSs just sucked prior to PS3/360 and Gears was just the first one that nailed certain things that were already tried before (Winback, Kill.Switch, etc.). TPSs just got good for whatever reason all at the same time pretty much, I think a combination of developers "getting it" and better hardware. Syphon Filter is a game that really wasn't good ever, it was just merely one of the best TPSs when TPSs were shit. That voice acting is just so bad.

Since when does Skyrim (or really any Bethesda game) get remembered for story? It's the characters of TLOU that will get remembered, not the story itself.

You said that the majority of reviewers all independently coming to the same or similar conclusion, be that 9/10, 2/10,
5/10, or 7/10, doesnt happen outside of the game industry. What score that is doesnt matter, as long as it's very similar.
THAT is what I took issue with, and then easily disproved with the list of movies, and a few albums.
I dont care about your other random tangents, and as far as I can tell, they're only attempts to muddy the issue.

The thing is that video game reviewers ALWAYS come to the same conclusion on pretty much every game. That's why I asked to name games for this year that IGN liked and GameSpot didn't like or vice verse. Because I can pick any 2 film critics and find loads of movies that one thought was bad and the other thought was good. You honestly think I don't know that movies are very well received or trashed on by film critics as a whole. I'm asking for the video game equivalent of a love it/hate it movie. Lastly, you still find negative reviews of very well received movies as well. Whereas, in video games, when a critic doesn't like a game, it still gets a 7/10.

Play it on hard and disable the listen mode and you'll finally get a mighty fine survival game with an outstanding presentation, a story not sucking and a discussion worthy ending (remember all those threads? different opinions, civil discussions, positive vibes ah good times). That's a well deserved GOTY.

I did play it on hard with listen mode off because I know how much an unlimited wallhack breaks a stealth game, let alone the tension of a horror game. I loved the game as much as one can love the game, but there's some obvious flaws keeping from a masterpiece. It just might be GOTY good but not 95/100 across the board super awesome!!!

 

[Malpraxis]

The problem I have with that game is the same problem I have with Inception.

Played it/Watched it. Enjoyed it. Moved on.
People think that if you didn't think they're the second coming of Christ you just 'didn't get them'. I 'got them'. I enjoyed them. I'd stab the fans with a rusty fork.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

Play it on hard and disable the listen mode and you'll finally get a mighty fine survival game with an outstanding presentation, a story not sucking and a discussion worthy ending (remember all those threads? different opinions, civil discussions, positive vibes ah good times). That's a well deserved GOTY.

I did play it on hard with listen mode off because I know how much an unlimited wallhack breaks a stealth game, let alone the tension of a horror game. I loved the game as much as one can love the game, but there's some obvious flaws keeping from a masterpiece. It just might be GOTY good but not 95/100 across the board super awesome!!!

You're agreeing and getting bend over a meaningless number? Since when does it matter if it's not your personal best game of the last century or whatever? I mean you're even admitting that it's GOTY material. Is it so hard to accept the fact that so many people love this game and flaws mattering to you don't bother them as much?

It happens to me almost every year that websites GOTYs differ from my own taste, no big deal. Keep enjoying what you like most. A screaming uproar or arguing over subjective impressions trying to state opinions as facts won't work. Don't get me wrong, never thought you were in the screaming faction, just an example.

To me TLOU is an outstanding masterpiece with well deserved scores...

...just like GTA5. Hehe, i tried to resist, i really did, sry.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Because I can pick any 2 film critics and find loads of movies that one thought was bad and the other thought was good.

Irrelevant to the issue.

This IS LITERALLY the issue I've been talking about the whole fucking time. Not only do game critics always agree whether a game is good or bad, they even agree on score most of the time with the vast majority of all reviews falling in the same 1.0-1.5 range. That's why I say why is it that I go to IGN and see a score, then see GameSpot give it ~0.5 lower. I should go and see one site like a game and another site dislike a game, that rarely happens. That same thing happens quite often with movie reviews and other mediums. Game reviewers try to objectively review games.

Lastly, you still find negative reviews of very well received movies as well.

Except for
Boyhood
Army of Shadows
Pan's Labyrinth
4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days
Gravity
Ratatouille
Spirited Away
The Social Network (Wow, first mixed review in the entire fucking list!)
Zero Dark Thirty (TWO mixed reviews now?! Someone catch me, I'm going to faint!)
WALL-E
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Schindler's List
Carlos
Amour
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Pulp Fiction
A Separation

I could go on, but I think I made my point.

Did you even look at most of my other list? Or did you just ignore/forget it the moment I posted it?

Boyhood [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/boyhood/] - 2 negative reviews (9.4/10)
Army of Shadows [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/army-of-shadows-1969/] - 2 negative reviews (8.6/10)
Pan's Labyrinth [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/pans_labyrinth/] - 9 negative reviews (8.6/10)
4 Months, 3 Weeks, and 2 Day [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/4_months_3_weeks_and_2_days/] - 6 negative reviews (8.4/10)
Gravity [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/gravity_2013/] - 10 negative reviews (9/10)
Ratatouille [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ratatouille/] - 10 negative reviews (8.4/10)
Spirited Away [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spirited_away/] - 5 negative reviews (8.6/10)
The Social Network [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the-social-network/] - 11 negative reviews (9/10)
Zero Dark Thirty [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/zero_dark_thirty/] - 17 negative reviews (8.6/10)
WALL-E [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wall_e/] - 9 negative reviews (8.5/10)
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/crouching_tiger_hidden_dragon/] - 4 negative reviews (8.6/10)
Shindler's List [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/schindlers_list/] - 2 negative reviews (9/10)
Carlos [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/carlos_2010/] - 4 negative reviews (8.1/10)
Amour [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/amour_2013/] - 13 negative reviews (8.7/10)
Lord of the Rings: Return of the King [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_return_of_the_king/] - 14 negative reviews (8.6/10)
Pulp Fiction [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/pulp_fiction/] - 4 negative reviews (9/10)
A Separation [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_separation_2011/] - 1 negative reviews (8.9/10)

Before you go on about "that's not Metacritic" or some shit. It's because Metacritic sucks for movies. I'm sure you'll agree that there's more movie reviewers than game reviewers. Then, why does TLOU have more Metacritic reviews (almost double) than Guardians of the Galaxy (not some indie movie, but the highest grossing movie of the year)? That's why Metacritic sucks for movies.

Also, take note of the OVERALL scores. Most of those movies scored in the 8s. Not one of those movies scored equal or higher than TLOU. You just get more variety in review scores in other mediums as well. A movie critic giving a Best Picture contender a 7.5 out of 10 is no big deal but GameSpot giving Skyward Sword a 7.5/10 was a huge deal, same with Greg Tito's 7/10 for GTAV.

You're agreeing and getting bend over a meaningless number? Since when does it matter if it's not your personal best game of the last century or whatever? I mean you're even admitting that it's GOTY material. Is it so hard to accept the fact that so many people love this game and flaws mattering to you don't bother them as much?

It happens to me almost every year that websites GOTYs differ from my own taste, no big deal. Keep enjoying what you like most. A screaming uproar or arguing over subjective impressions trying to state opinions as facts won't work. Don't get me wrong, never thought you were in the screaming faction, just an example.

To me TLOU is an outstanding masterpiece with well deserved scores...

...just like GTA5. Hehe, i tried to resist, i really did, sry.

Just look at the list above you of very high scoring and extremely well received movies. Notice how none of those scores are equal or better than TLOU. There just isn't nearly enough criticism in game criticism nor variety either. Video game scores are very much inflated across the board. How many AAA releases are actually scored as bad games ever? Then, look at how many Hollywood blockbusters get trashed by reviewers.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The problem I have with that game is the same problem I have with Inception.

Played it/Watched it. Enjoyed it. Moved on.
People think that if you didn't think they're the second coming of Christ you just 'didn't get them'. I 'got them'. I enjoyed them. I'd stab the fans with a rusty fork.

I don't think only wanting to experience something once is an inherent problem with any work of art.

With movies, comedies and action films are much more re-watchable than a thriller. Same thing with games.

 

[Malpraxis]

The problem I have with that game is the same problem I have with Inception.

Played it/Watched it. Enjoyed it. Moved on.
People think that if you didn't think they're the second coming of Christ you just 'didn't get them'. I 'got them'. I enjoyed them. I'd stab the fans with a rusty fork.

I don't think only wanting to experience something once is an inherent problem with any work of art.

With movies, comedies and action films are much more re-watchable than a thriller. Same thing with games.

You are completely right, but maybe I wasn't clear enough on the reason for my hatred. For fans of those particular works, enjoying that movie/game isn't enough. You have to find them deep, you have to love them, you have to go out and spread the word of the wonderful and deep work of art that changed the very perception of your life. If you just finish them and go 'meh, what's for dinner?', there's something wrong with you. That's what makes me uneasy.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

See that bold bit? That's what we were arguing about, because you didnt say that before.
Now you have, and as such, I've essentially won this argument.

That's what I was arguing the whole time even from the start as that's what I meant from the quote line below from the very 1st post. I probably should've made it more clear. The problem with game reviews is the almost all critics share the same opinion about a game and almost all scores fall between a 1.0-1.5 range.

only 10 of the 98 reviews on Metacritic gave TLOU below a 9/10

---

And rotten tomatoes sucks even worse for videogames.
At least metacritic has both and likely uses the same algorithm for scoring both of them, and as such is far more usefull for disproving the idea that multiple reviewers coming to a similar conclusion and giving similar scores to a game is a phenomenon exclusive to gaming.

But if you're so god damn attached to RT, then here are some movies with no negative reviews.
The Third Man
Singin' in the Rain
Citizen Kane
The Godfather
Repulsion
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Laura
Modern Times
All About Eve
Rear Window
Toy Story 2
Rashômon
The Maltese Falcon
Seven Samurai

And by the way, if you click the 'top critics' button, a huge chunk of those flicks suddenly have no negative reviews.
I think that's more fair, since that's essentially what IGN and Gamespot are. They're the big mainstream guys. Everyone knows who they are. They're not some little dude that no-one's heard of.

That's why I don't use RottenTomatoes for video games, I didn't even know they had games. I just looked up Citizen Kane and even that movie's overall score is still less than TLOU or GTAV. I don't really feel there's a "top" critics of anything as everyone's opinion is valid and I'm not just saying that as a cliche or anything. Some of my favorite film critics aren't top critics as I used to listen to Nick Digilio on WGN radio (in Chicago) and I think I agreed with him more than any film critic (he had a whole show talking all kinds of pop culture). I've always enjoyed MovieBob's analysis of movies more than most reviews whether I agree with him or not. I don't really feel movie reviews by top critics are actually better than the lesser known guys. Marter on this site is a pretty good reviewer, for example, who's obviously not even on RottenTomatoes.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

You are completely right, but maybe I wasn't clear enough on the reason for my hatred. For fans of those particular works, enjoying that movie/game isn't enough. You have to find them deep, you have to love them, you have to go out and spread the word of the wonderful and deep work of art that changed the very perception of your life. If you just finish them and go 'meh, what's for dinner?', there's something wrong with you. That's what makes me uneasy.

Games are very rarely deep and when one even comes close to being deep, it's almost always not, it's just deeper than most games, but that's not saying much. Like Neir, I think gamers have orgasms of its story when it's nothing more than standard anime fare. I even saw a thread on a Neir board basically saying that TLOU proves Neir's story is great and deep because TLOU ripped off Neir's story, and TLOU's story is nothing like it really.

 

[Malpraxis]

You are completely right, but maybe I wasn't clear enough on the reason for my hatred. For fans of those particular works, enjoying that movie/game isn't enough. You have to find them deep, you have to love them, you have to go out and spread the word of the wonderful and deep work of art that changed the very perception of your life. If you just finish them and go 'meh, what's for dinner?', there's something wrong with you. That's what makes me uneasy.

Games are very rarely deep and when one even comes close to being deep, it's almost always not, it's just deeper than most games, but that's not saying much. Like Neir, I think gamers have orgasms of its story when it's nothing more than standard anime fare. I even saw a thread on a Neir board basically saying that TLOU proves Neir's story is great and deep because TLOU ripped off Neir's story, and TLOU's story is nothing like it really.

Never cared much for Neir, as I'm not into JRPGs, but the sole move of an ending that deletes your savefile is ballsy as hell. It made your choice to have a much greater impact than anything TLOU ever did. To be honest, I felt much more attached to the Lee/Clem duo from TWD S1, and it's not because the characters were likeable, I just found them more relatable.