The Last Straw

[Mojo]

Possibly. That's still no reason to discuss why the ending was bad/whose fault it was for almost a year.
I liked ME3, no matter how many flaws you point out, Ill still love it. If that guy you mentioned said that ME3 was a great game for the shooter mechanics, then that's debatable. They were far better then the ones in the first two games, but than other third person shooters such as gears? I cant say. If he said he liked ME3 as a shooter and didn't care about the story, then that's a valid opinion. If he enjoyed the game then that's that. Also you cant say ME3 "failed" because YOU thought the story sucked. If I say the Modern Warfare games "fail" because the story/multiplayer/whatever sucks and they are always the same game, then that's a false statement. Modern Warfare 3 made 1 billion dollars throughout the world in 16 days. That doesn't sound like a fail to me.

Dude, arent you a bit of a grown up to use that kind of statement? by that logic i can say that Twilight is a good story because its a best seller along Scientology books and Mein Kampf.

First of all I want to agree with what you say, don't get me wrong, I don't like the ME3 ending. Baldur's Gate is still a better overall game in my opinion (Enhanced Edition coming tomorrow, yay) but that doesn't change the fact that I love the trilogy nonetheless. I NEVER said Modern Warfare/Twilight have a good story. All I said is that they didn't fail, because they made money. No matter why they sold, they still profited. I agree that there are games/books/movies that deserve more attention because they actually are good, but the fact is that you cant call a CoD game a failed game, because well... people buy it, so they must be doing something right. According to Wikipedia, Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time. I didn't like that move too much to be honest, doesn't change the fact that it made more money then any other move ever made. I don't want to start a flame war about who deserves what. I just don't think you can say that something that rakes in so much money is "failed". Of course you are right that it doesn't mean that something is good either. There is a difference between bad and failed.

 

[DioWallachia]

I agree that there are games/books/movies that deserve more attention because they actually are good, but the fact is that you cant call a CoD game a failed game, because well... people buy it, so they must be doing something right. According to Wikipedia, Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time. I didn't like that move too much to be honest, doesn't change the fact that it made more money then any other move ever made. I don't want to start a flame war about who deserves what. I just don't think you can say that something that rakes in so much money is "failed". Of course you are right that it doesn't mean that something is good either. There is a difference between bad and failed.

You are correct. Its just that, looking at the game objectively, there is little reason to believe that the game in question offers something more or different to what the market already has. That is why i have to look at outside factors like lazyness to find better entertaiment or familiarity to something that people know isnt going to change.

It wouldnt affect me if it wasnt for the fact that these people dont even try to reason WHY they like it or why they keep going back to something that was already done. Maybe its one of those things like the "Hero's Journey" all over again, where the story is basically the same but told diferently.

Where is our Joseph Cambell when we need it?

 

[Mojo]

It wouldnt affect me if it wasnt for the fact that these people dont even try to reason WHY they like it or why they keep going back to something that was already done. Maybe its one of those things like the "Hero's Journey" all over again, where the story is basically the same but told diferently.

Where is our Joseph Cambell when we need it?

I have no idea. Laziness is most probably a factor, at least with many CoD buyers I know. Heck, I even know several guys who bought and loved Warfighter. I borrowed it and finished the single player on a weekend and by no means was it good. (Didn't sell well either.) But I guess my friends cant be bothered with actually looking for good games, reading reviews etc... A reason they liked Warfighter/any CoD game, is surely that they simply don't know better, as you mentioned above. If you would ask them why they liked the game so much you'd get one of those: "I don't know, I just do." answers.

 

[rialled]

Dude, arent you a bit of a grown up to use that kind of statement? by that logic i can say that Twilight is a good story because its a best seller along Scientology books and Mein Kampf.

I just don't think you can say that something that rakes in so much money is "failed". Of course you are right that it doesn't mean that something is good either. There is a difference between bad and failed.

I'm sorry, but this seemed like an interesting debate so I thought I would weigh in.

I believe both good and bad are subjective. Sales, on the whole, is a pretty objective of measuring popularity. Even if I don't find Twilight a good book, many people do-evidenced by the sales. I don't think it's fair to dismiss an opinion as being worth less than your own, especially when assessing when something is good or not.

 

[DioWallachia]

It wouldnt affect me if it wasnt for the fact that these people dont even try to reason WHY they like it or why they keep going back to something that was already done. Maybe its one of those things like the "Hero's Journey" all over again, where the story is basically the same but told diferently.

Where is our Joseph Cambell when we need it?

I have no idea. Laziness is most probably a factor, at least with many CoD buyers I know. Heck, I even know several guys who bought and loved Warfighter. I borrowed it and finished the single player on a weekend and by no means was it good. (Didn't sell well either.) But I guess my friends cant be bothered with actually looking for good games, reading reviews etc... A reason they liked Warfighter/any CoD game, is surely that they simply don't know better, as you mentioned above. If you would ask them why they liked the game so much you'd get one of those: "I don't know, I just do." answers.

Probably is that they have friends that they KNOW they are going to play it without question and just want to compete with them (not sure why they dont just do that with an older game since they are all the same both in graphics, gameplay and multiplayer options)

In short, is the good old friend "Argumentum Ad Populous" again. Everyone is doing, so i may as well do it too.

Dude, arent you a bit of a grown up to use that kind of statement? by that logic i can say that Twilight is a good story because its a best seller along Scientology books and Mein Kampf.

I just don't think you can say that something that rakes in so much money is "failed". Of course you are right that it doesn't mean that something is good either. There is a difference between bad and failed.

I'm sorry, but this seemed like an interesting debate so I thought I would weigh in.

I believe both good and bad are subjective. Sales, on the whole, is a pretty objective of measuring popularity. Even if I don't find Twilight a good book, many people do-evidenced by the sales. I don't think it's fair to dismiss an opinion as being worth less than your own, especially when assessing when something is good or not.

Technically we CAN measure objectively the way a game is designed AND how the story works. So we can say that something is well written enough to stand on his own but it may still be possible that no one likes it.

For example, i can say that Legacy of Kain is well written, but if you dont like vampires or anything to do with time travel then that would be up to you. I can also say that the Metroid Prime series expanded the gameplay formula of exploration (Metroidvania) by having story bits and lore become collectables just like energy packs and missiles are, but people may still dislike it for several reasons (even very silly ones.) Like for example, because its a First Person Perspective game, it CLEAR that it was made like that to cash in on Call of Duty popularity. Therefore, its responsible for making popular the First Person Gun Masturbation Fest Shooter, and for that, it sucks because only those idiots would like it.

Nevermind that the Prime series was made BEFORE it got popular but oh well.....