The legality of superhero movies

[boyvirgo666]

I was watching Iron Man 2 and I'm one of those anal retentive idiots that looks at how that would work in real life. Now avoiding the 'the government will do whatever they want regardless of the law' thing I'd like to see people opinions on the Senate Arm's Hearing.

The summary with spoilers:
The Senate wants to take the Iron Man suit, Tony Stark will not give them up. Now i know that legally they cannot take the suit unless there is a law making the suit itself illegal in some way(which woudnt be easy to pass unless they were mass developed). Anyone else see moments like this and have to laugh at the rather silly points in movies? I like to talk about those moments.

So what do you guys think about the Senate stealing Iron man?

bonus question: anyone got any other movies they can pick apart for the fun of it?

 

[chaosyoshimage]

Dude, Iron Man 2 was the superhero version of Atlas Shrugged. Of course "big government" is a bad guy...

 

[Mad World]

I do this all of the time.

I was thinking the exact same thing with regard to Iron Man 2. The government can't just take the suit. Also, I thought of this: why would you want to anger Tony Stark? He provides the U.S. with weapons. Seems like a dumb move.

 

[Darkmantle]

the incredibles, they starting sueing for silly reasons :/

also, where did all the villains go?

 

[Sandernista]

I was watching Iron Man 2 and I'm one of those anal retentive idiots that looks at how that would work in real life. Now avoiding the 'the government will do whatever they want regardless of the law' thing I'd like to see people opinions on the Senate Arm's Hearing.

The summary with spoilers:
The Senate wants to take the Iron Man suit, Tony Stark will not give them up. Now i know that legally they cannot take the suit unless there is a law making the suit itself illegal in some way(which woudnt be easy to pass unless they were mass developed). Anyone else see moments like this and have to laugh at the rather silly points in movies? I like to talk about those moments.

So what do you guys think about the Senate stealing Iron man?

bonus question: anyone got any other movies they can pick apart for the fun of it?

Eminent domain.

>.>

As long as they give just compensation and justify the seizure of property[footnote]Find some 'public' use for it, which can entail anything benefiting the public[/footnote], the US government, and many other gov'ts, can grab whatever they want.

Eminent Domain wiki page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain]

 

[KeyMaster45]

I think figuring out if he'd done anything illegal was sorta the point of the hearings. I mean face it, the Iron Man suit is a one man army capable of mass destruction if it's user so chooses. The movie goes into the hearing at was obviously the end of them, at which point they'd come to the conclusion that no, he hadn't done anything illegal. They still wanted the technology of course, hence why they have Roady steal it from him.

I think it's hardly a case of big government and more a case of good strategy. Still, I find it hard to believe that he didn't break some kind of law. We may have the second amendment in the states but it only goes so far. After a certain grade of weapon it's illegal for a civilian to own it, and despite what Stark industries typically makes Tony is still a civillian and the Iron Man suit is far beyond what would be considered a weapon which can be legally owned by a civilian. Plus there's the whole vigilante thing though frankly, like in the case of Batman, who's gonna stop him?

The US legal system is a mine field of asinine laws that Tony probably broke, and if the US military was as desperate to get their hands on the suit as they seemed to be they'd have started pulling bullshit from the wood works to confiscate it. It's like a game of D&D, he who knows the most obscure, bullshit rules wins.

 

[Veylon]

Tony Stark couldn't have hung on to the suit in anything remotely connected to reality. There is no lawmaker, no matter how libertarian, who would willingly allow some random citizen to walk around with unknown military hardware.

As for legality... Tony Stark has violated an ungodly number of laws, many of them felonies. What's the penalty for wandering into military airspace and destroying a fighter jet? He could easily be locked up for the rest of his days with his assets seized and company placed under trusteeship. If the government felt like bargaining, it's in a very strong position to do so.

 

[Vexik]

The real problem most governments would have regarding superpowers is how to take them away. Stark can make another Iron Man suit, and his first is undoubtedly safeguarded against theft. Then, not only is the government left with a useless metal suit, but they have an angry supergenius with backup suits just ready to take his baby back. Oh, and then maybe become a major problem. Never make a superhero into a supervillain. It's bad for business (unless you're in construction, then it's great!).

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

I was watching Iron Man 2 and I'm one of those anal retentive idiots that looks at how that would work in real life. Now avoiding the 'the government will do whatever they want regardless of the law' thing I'd like to see people opinions on the Senate Arm's Hearing.

The summary with spoilers:
The Senate wants to take the Iron Man suit, Tony Stark will not give them up. Now i know that legally they cannot take the suit unless there is a law making the suit itself illegal in some way(which woudnt be easy to pass unless they were mass developed). Anyone else see moments like this and have to laugh at the rather silly points in movies? I like to talk about those moments.

So what do you guys think about the Senate stealing Iron man?

bonus question: anyone got any other movies they can pick apart for the fun of it?

Eminent domain.

>.>

As long as they give just compensation and justify the seizure of property[footnote]Find some 'public' use for it, which can entail anything benefiting the public[/footnote], the US government, and many other gov'ts, can grab whatever they want.

Eminent Domain wiki page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain]

Also falls in line with the unauthorized aircraft rule. Wasn't there some guy that got in trouble for his flying death trap? just wondering XD

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I feel the Christopher Nolan Batman movies portray a fairly realistic depiction of "don't ask, don't tell" in relation to vigilante-types. He's cleaning up the streets. What he's doing is illegal, but when the city and police department are corrupt enough, you can let that slide just a little bit. And then at the end of The Dark Knight they start hunting Batman, anyway.

What I want to know is how superpowered aliens like Superman come to concern themselves with petty laws. Aren't they more or less above humanity's jurisdiction? You don't need to drop anyone in jail, Supes. Just hurl them into the goddamn sun...

 

[Smooth Operator]

You are not allowed to posses unregistered weapons, if the government deems it a weapon(which the Iron Man suit obviously was) then yes they can take all of his shit away, and not just one suit but all of them and the entire project data.
In reality Stark would be cleaned out, then charged with god knows howmany violations of federal law and all that money would be just enough to keep him out of jail.

But Supermans disguise is always a hilarious one, I guess people in that world are just really bad with faces

 

[Aurgelmir]

I was watching Iron Man 2 and I'm one of those anal retentive idiots that looks at how that would work in real life. Now avoiding the 'the government will do whatever they want regardless of the law' thing I'd like to see people opinions on the Senate Arm's Hearing.

The summary with spoilers:
The Senate wants to take the Iron Man suit, Tony Stark will not give them up. Now i know that legally they cannot take the suit unless there is a law making the suit itself illegal in some way(which woudnt be easy to pass unless they were mass developed). Anyone else see moments like this and have to laugh at the rather silly points in movies? I like to talk about those moments.

So what do you guys think about the Senate stealing Iron man?

bonus question: anyone got any other movies they can pick apart for the fun of it?

The Iron Man suit is an "illegal weapon system", which tony Stark isn't allowed to own.
Something which is actually used as an argument in the movie if I am not mistaken...

Had it only been a suit without laser beams and rockets it might not have been the same issue.

 

[maxcarrion]

OK, I think inherently people believe that the US government can do as it damn well pleases and as far as schmoes like you or I or significantly less powerful countries with lots of oil are concerned, we can't really stop them. However, what happens when US government start trying to obtain weapons technology from their own weapons manufacturers by inciting eminent domain, that's right, the arms company pack up and move to another country and the US government, who make pretty much bugger all with regards to weapons, are now screwed. No one will do government weapons research if the government can simply help themselves to the result willy nilly and if it is simply doing it because you get paid, well other countries can pay too. Similarly trying to sieze "illegal weapon systems" owned by the largest arms manufacturer in the world is going to get a bit sticky - I think they probably have a permit for it.

Now don't get me wrong, it's a comic book and in many ways it's inaccurate, simple conservation of momentum makes Tony Stark dead within 30 minutes of the first film starting and actually using the suit on people (rather than just owning it) is all kinds of illegal and "act of war" ish, but it's a comic, so I think we have to let a few things slide but a lawsuit to try and sieze weapons technology from the worlds largest arms manufacturer, that rely's on a technology only a single supergenius truly understands and powered by something that only exists in his own chest and will kill him if removed, I think the ramifications of just helping yourself by force "might" justify having at least a little dog and pony show of a trial to try and avoid.

I mean, 90% of all US elections are won by the candidate who raises the most money, anyone who doesn't think the office of the US President is, almost entirely, owned by big business and therefore, in part, by Tony Stark the richest business man in the US, is a little niave.

 

[boyvirgo666]

ok ok
1. the iron man suit wasnt classified as a weapon, nothing on it was technically illegal except i guess those little missile things. Even his power system was private and newly invented. They would have to pass a law to classify it as such which was also done for armored vehicles and the assault rifle int he real world. You have to legally classify them to make that apply.

2. Emminent Domain only applies to land. you cant just take an item from a citizen without permission or sale, Thats why they cant take buildings they can pay for the building and the property inside but they cant just take it.

3. and yes him taking the suit into an active warzone was illegal but i dont think it was the topic at hand.

edit: also im fairly sure lasers arent illegal. you can make them. Newly created weapons technology is never illegal until classified as illegal.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

I'm not sure about this because I haven't seen the films yet, but which police force, army thing is brave enough to stand against Iron Man?

Same goes for Batman, go try to arrest him... Go on, I dare you...

You maybe remember the effort they made to capture Blade in Blade 3? (I know the movie is bad but still)

Arresting a superhero isn't really an easy task, you know? Conviscating his equipment might prove difficult as well, no matter what the Government decides. Maybe he just leaves for China, North Korea or Afghanistan if he isn't appreciated in the US anymore. I doubt the US wants that.

 

[Kyrian007]

I was thinking the exact same thing with regard to Iron Man 2. The government can't just take the suit. Also, I thought of this: why would you want to anger Tony Stark? He provides the U.S. with weapons. Seems like a dumb move.

They really can. It's called "Asset Forfeiture" and the government can take any asset (including posessions like the suit) that could have been purchased or created with assets recieved while in the comission of an illegal activity, or itself was used in the comission of a crime (which it was several times.) The government has the legal framework to take the suit.

Also, you aren't the only one making the point about Stark giving the U.S. weapons, so don't make him mad. But that hasn't happened for quite awhile by the time IM 2 rolled around. He stopped making weapons for governments during the 1st movie.

 

[boyvirgo666]

I was thinking the exact same thing with regard to Iron Man 2. The government can't just take the suit. Also, I thought of this: why would you want to anger Tony Stark? He provides the U.S. with weapons. Seems like a dumb move.

They really can. It's called "Asset Forfeiture" and the government can take any asset (including posessions like the suit) that could have been purchased or created with assets recieved while in the comission of an illegal activity, or itself was used in the comission of a crime (which it was several times.) The government has the legal framework to take the suit.

Also, you aren't the only one making the point about Stark giving the U.S. weapons, so don't make him mad. But that hasn't happened for quite awhile by the time IM 2 rolled around. He stopped making weapons for governments during the 1st movie.

He didnt make them while committing a crime. i know about this law but it doesnt apply here. It -might- have applied though when he broke into a warzone.

 

[WolfThomas]

But Supermans disguise is always a hilarious one, I guess people in that world are just really bad with faces

The key thing with Superman's identity is a concept called a Grandfather clause, in that things that exist prior to a rule/s are exempt to the new rule/s. Superman was one of the first superheroes they hadn't worked out the rules, trends and tropes of the genere when he was made. If a new hero was introduced and didn't wear a mask they'd need a reason why. He gets away because he was the first.

But there are in universe reasons why it's works, firstly he can vibrate on the spot fast enough that any photo of him is blurred. Then people in the universe don't necessarily think Superman has a secret identity at all, that he's just being a hero 24/7. Then he has a very generic "All-American" face which means a lot of people probably look like him (in fact some non-canon stories have suggested that his space-ship/birthing pod purposedly made him look like a generic human for the place he was landing).

As for the disguise itself, he's a fantastic actor (due to his superspeed he can perfectly judge facial emotions and ticks etc), so he plays an entirely different character to his Superman roles, voice several octaves higher, faster and more nervous, never making eye contact and appearing shy. He uses clothing to disguise his physical size and the glasses aren't just clear glass, they have very heavy prescriptions which he can adjust his eyes to, so when people see his face the glasses distort the shape of his face.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I was watching Iron Man 2 and I'm one of those anal retentive idiots that looks at how that would work in real life. Now avoiding the 'the government will do whatever they want regardless of the law' thing I'd like to see people opinions on the Senate Arm's Hearing.

The summary with spoilers:
The Senate wants to take the Iron Man suit, Tony Stark will not give them up. Now i know that legally they cannot take the suit unless there is a law making the suit itself illegal in some way(which woudnt be easy to pass unless they were mass developed). Anyone else see moments like this and have to laugh at the rather silly points in movies? I like to talk about those moments.

So what do you guys think about the Senate stealing Iron man?

bonus question: anyone got any other movies they can pick apart for the fun of it?

No, you want to know what the big problem with Iron Man 2 is? Tony Stark's father is the biggest douche in the history of douches.

So yeah, him and this Russian guy come up with this plan for the arc reactor, which could potentially revolutionise the world of technology; think of all the stuff that would be possible with such a small, powerful reactor. The Russian guy suggests selling it, as you would expect someone to do when they've created something amazing and want to simultaneously distribute it and live like kings. But Mr. Stark doesn't think this is diabolical enough, so he has the Russian guy deported to the USSR. I don't know if you've read up on your history, but the USSR wasn't big on people who'd spent ten years developing technologies for the Americans. So Mr. Stark then keeps the true plans for the arc reactor secret, presumably so that he can create a dynasty through having a monopoly over the technology while the Russian guy rots in a Siberian gulag.

 

[Kyrian007]

He didnt make them while committing a crime. i know about this law but it doesnt apply here. It -might- have applied though when he broke into a warzone.

Creating and using unlicensened weaponry containing high explosives in itself is a felony. And he was doing it after having quit as a weapons designer for the U.S. so it was illegal.