The little things that Horizon Zero Dawn does that most open world games fail at

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SlumlordThanatos

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Aug 25, 2014
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I'm having fun with it so far, insofar as I can pull myself away from replaying Mass Effect 3 while I wait for Andromeda. First impressions are pretty good, though I should probably jack up the difficulty; the game plays up just how incredibly dangerous the machines are, only for me to mow through groups of them without a lot of effort.

Story could use some work, though. Granted, I'm not very far in, but the opening section plays out like the beginning of pretty much every YA novel, with a young girl finding out that she's the "chosen one".

Not sure how much it changes as the game progresses, but none of the plot twists so far have surprised me any.
 

Casual Shinji

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Zhukov said:
Pro-tip: If you whistle for your mount and then start sprinting before it gets to you it will run up alongside you and you can mount directly into a full speed gallop. Great for when you need to mount in mid-combat, especially if you need to escape. Much better than mounting at a standstill then trying to get speed up which will usually result in you getting slapped right back off.
You can even jump-mount, which is pretty useless on it's own, but it's still pretty slick that they put it in.

I've tried going into battle on my mount, but I just get knocked off way too much because enemies can be so freaking fast, and they just love to take like 20 metre long lunges at you. Now I just whistle my mount into combat as a distraction.
 

Athennesi

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Are you saying fighting humans is better? Because those are the worst fights and the bandit camps are by far the worst side activity in the game. The bows feel great; the only time I really quick-shoot is pretty up close with the war bow as the accuracy is shit if you don't pull back all the way. Overall, I rarely quick-shoot as one double-shot usually yields a status effect against just about anything. I'll give you the world building in Witcher 3 but the actual world wasn't interesting at all. Besides for the locations the story takes you, there's nothing of interest on the Witcher 3 map; there's really no reason to explore unless you want to do like a hundred monster nests or find useless crap in the sea. In Horizon, there's usually something interesting and different to check out around every corner. Horizon definitely has the better diversity.
Definitely..human fights in this game feel like they were added at the last minute. Core Bowplay definitely isn't "great"...playing modded Skyrim archery overhaul and you'll immediately see the difference...no crosshair, target moving in the distance, pin point predicting of target's location, accurately draw the string and taking into account of arrow's trajectory AND then hit the target.
Here even with added abilities and tricks, it's just point and shoot, like holding a gun.
Horizon has more "lean" and focused gameplay systems with weaker progression...people who are more focused on straightforward action will like this more. And the world is basically designed around hunts...so it's one of the best open worlds for COMBAT...in a way, it feels like a better, far more polished version of Ubisoft games.
I disagree about it's world being more "interesting"...different games have different goals with their worlds and HZD is lacking in comparison when it comes to environmental storytelling, worldbuilding, quest content, lore and secrets to discover in comparison to Witcher or variety of locations next to TES.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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I have two relatively minor gripes with the game.

First is the resources inventory. No sorting ability, no one button option to sell trash like in Far Cry, and that resources you pick up far too much of (sparkers,for instance) will inevitably eat up 4 or 5 inventory slots before you realise you need to start dropping them.

Second is weapon selection. Having to go into a menu to swap out lets say the ropecaster for the blast sling is unessesary clunk that could have been done without by using a weapon wheel with all weapons and a d-pad input for ammo types.

Bob_McMillan said:
Question: How does it run on the PS4? Because all the reviews and footage I have been seeing are from the Pro.
In my time going through it i didnt notice any performance issues and i had absolutely no bugs.
 

Mike000

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Phoenixmgs said:
The only thing you really need the animal stuff for is to increase carry capacity, which you really don't need for most things (do you really need a 60 arrow quiver for example?).
Buying the infinite-use fast travel token takes a fox skin, and one of the shadow weapons requires fox, boar, AND turkey skins.

Have to admit I started buying ammo though - you don't need quite as much of the resource, but need a lot more shards.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Zhukov said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Oh wow, I definitely need to get that skill now. That was a skill I thought was pretty useless.
Huh? What skill?

You can whistle for a mount whenever you have one overridden. (So long as it hasn't despawned, which it will do if you fast travel or leave it too far behind.)

There is a skill that allows you to just whistle a broadhead out of the blue without having to override one first though. It's convenient, but unnecessary.
Oh, I didn't know you can whistle for your own mount. I haven't used mounts often just because it's hard to get medicinal herbs then plus running places doesn't really take long.

Athennesi said:
Core Bowplay definitely isn't "great"...playing modded Skyrim archery overhaul and you'll immediately see the difference...no crosshair, target moving in the distance, pin point predicting of target's location, accurately draw the string and taking into account of arrow's trajectory AND then hit the target.
Here even with added abilities and tricks, it's just point and shoot, like holding a gun.

I disagree about it's world being more "interesting"...different games have different goals with their worlds and HZD is lacking in comparison when it comes to environmental storytelling, worldbuilding, quest content, lore and secrets to discover in comparison to Witcher or variety of locations next to TES.
The arcade-y feel of the bow works in the game, it's not that easy to hit certain spots on the machines even with concentration. You do have to lead your target even with concentration too. I don't think there's any arrow drop though. However, arrow drop like in The Last of Us would be out of place. You can turn off the crosshair if you want to.

Like I said, I totally agree with you on the worldbuilding aspect, but I do really love just exploring new areas even though I know there's no loot or anything to get as a reward. Every time I saw a building structure on the map in Witcher 3 and decided to explore it, I was always disappointed and had the "that's it?" feeling. There's no way Witcher 3 has more variety. The one cauldron I did so far was so much better than any cave in Witcher 3. I can't really comment on TES as I don't like Bethesda gameplay or writing so I don't play Bethesda games. Watching a friend play Skyrim for a couple hours didn't seem like the world was that interesting and diverse either.

gigastar said:
Second is weapon selection. Having to go into a menu to swap out lets say the ropecaster for the blast sling is unessesary clunk that could have been done without by using a weapon wheel with all weapons and a d-pad input for ammo types.
That would be pretty great.

Mike000 said:
Buying the infinite-use fast travel token takes a fox skin, and one of the shadow weapons requires fox, boar, AND turkey skins.
Yeah, the fox skin for the fast travel thing kinda pissed me off. I thought I was done with needing animal skins at that point as I already had upgraded pretty much all my pouches. I think the shadow rattler needs the animal skins. The only reason I even bought it eventually was to get the tutorial XP from the weapon though.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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One more little thing added via the newest PS4 firmware allows you to set screenshots (or any picture) as your background via "custom" themes. Now there's an even better reason to take full advantage of that photo mode in Horizon. I already set one of my screenshots as my background.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Phoenixmgs said:
One more little thing added via the newest PS4 firmware allows you to set screenshots (or any picture) as your background via "custom" themes. Now there's an even better reason to take full advantage of that photo mode in Horizon. I already set one of my screenshots as my background.
That's cool. I wish they'd put the exclusive theme on the store from the collector's edition though. The game's been out for a while, so it's not like it does any good tying up one item that many people might want into one initial purchase point.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Phoenixmgs said:
The world is just beautiful looking. I've actually fooled around with Photo mode for like the 1st time ever in a game.

I didn't take this photo but I saw it in a Gamefaqs screenshot thread and it is amazing...


Here's a couple pictures I've taken in the game...

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I like photo mode too, even if they do compress the hell out of images and reduce video to 1280x720p. It's like going from actual Blu-ray quality to low bandwidth streaming quality, but at least it's convenient.

Anyways, here's some shots from the same area at different times of day -













 

Wrex Brogan

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One of the things I was impressed with in the game is that most of the weapons are actually quite useful - normally with games there's always something I rarely, if ever, use, but with Horizon I actually ended up using everything for different situations (except the Terablaster, but that's because the Terablaster I got *after* I finished the main quest, whoops) - even the Rattler was useful for close-quarters fights against large groups, since you could lay on some heavy status effects really quickly with it, although it was superseded by the Sling against things like Stormbirds and Thunderjaws since the build-up was just too small against such dangerous enemies.

Another nice thing was how all the status conditions were actually... you know, important and shit. Granted I ended up using frost a whole lot as the stories moved towards 'say you look like you could fight a Thunderjaw and a Corruptor at the same time' kind of fights, but otherwise everything had a use and every enemy had a certain vulnerability to exploit. Kind of a wasted effort against the human enemies though, since most of them had so little health that just inflicting the condition against them often killed them before it could really take effect.

Zhukov said:
Another point in it's favour is that you buy basically all your equipment instead of how it is in most games where buying stuff is a waste of time because you'll loot something better ten minutes later. So I actually end up wanting the game's currency which motivates me to hunt, gather and fight while I wander around instead of just running past for the sake of efficiency, because there's no other way I'm going to get that nifty outfit or new bow.
The nice thing about the 'buy all your equipment' thing too was I found myself buying multiples of certain weapons to upgrade them differently and use them on the fly - I ended up with two of the Shadow Slings, Sharpshot bows, War Bows and Trip Casters, all built to handle separate situations. Normally I don't invest in weapons like that since I'll either find something better as a random drop of there'll be a quest reward that blows everything I have out of the water, but here it was just 'You know what, I want to be able to Corrupt enemies from stealth and then Shock them when things get loud, I'll just pick up a second War Bow'. Was quite a lovely change of pace.

Sonicron said:
I have to disagree about the inventory management - the 'resources' tab flies in the face of that. Mid-game onwards you will constantly have to clean up your inventory to free up a few spaces while also keeping most of your junk because you never know when you'll need a certain lens, heart, bone or skin.
This ties in neatly with the other point I disagree with. No more farming? If only. Yes, you can buy machine parts, which is nice, but the first thing to add to this game via patch would be a vendor for animal parts. Even warping around the map and spamming the reload randomizer I spent about 2 hours trying to get a fucking goose skin. Trying to grind for a rare component of a rare random critter without a fixed spawn point has got to be the shittiest implementation of loot grinding in all of creation.

And before anyone tunnels up my butt about these criticisms: I have been mainlining this game for a week now and absolutely love it. To me there can be no denying the obvious flaws in this game; that being said, it is a stonking great game all the same.
The annoying thing with the inventory system is that not every lens or heart is useful - I was lugging around a bunch of late-game enemy components that it turns out aren't used for anything except for vendor trash. Would've been nice if the game actually told me Behemoth Hearts were just worth some scratch and didn't tell me they could be 'traded to vendors for items' so I'd hang onto a half-dozen of the damn things just in case.

The weird thing too about the machine part vendor is that... machine parts aren't that hard to come across? I was drowning in Hearts and lenses, but when it came to animal parts I was struggling to find even uncommon items - I never ended up buying anything from the parts vendor, but damn, I would've spent thousands of shards at a skin and bone merchant. Fantastic game, to be sure, but bit of a bugbear when I spend 30 minutes skinning fish and somehow manage to never find any of their bones in the process.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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^ Yeah the animal/machine loot is a bit too randomized. Not sure why that is since it really wouldn't affect balance or challenge at all to simply be able to find what you need sooner. The loot icon color changes to green when a required item is found, but that doesn't excuse the flawed system of obtaining it.

The inventory can get cluttered, but it does note what animal/machine part is needed for x upgrade or new gear, so it's a good reference for what can be pawned off or not.

I'm personally ok with human enemies being weak and fairly insignificant. It helps make the machines feel like the primary threat in both gameplay and theme, even when the machines are being controlled by people.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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hanselthecaretaker said:
And other random shots -

http://imgur.com/a/66XB7
Nice. And that stealth armor is the best but I find the "medium" one the best looking of the 3 but only 1 mod slot.

Here's a few more of mine:


There's some really amazing screenshots in the Neogaf thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348006&page=2

Wrex Brogan said:
One of the things I was impressed with in the game is that most of the weapons are actually quite useful - normally with games there's always something I rarely, if ever, use, but with Horizon I actually ended up using everything for different situations (except the Terablaster, but that's because the Terablaster I got *after* I finished the main quest, whoops) - even the Rattler was useful for close-quarters fights against large groups, since you could lay on some heavy status effects really quickly with it, although it was superseded by the Sling against things like Stormbirds and Thunderjaws since the build-up was just too small against such dangerous enemies.

---

The nice thing about the 'buy all your equipment' thing too was I found myself buying multiples of certain weapons to upgrade them differently and use them on the fly - I ended up with two of the Shadow Slings, Sharpshot bows, War Bows and Trip Casters, all built to handle separate situations.
I love that everything is usable. I thought the rattler was stupid, then I saw a thread about it being good. I've been using it to shred frozen enemies, it's so much fun. I haven't used it for status effects yet though. I usually use the ropecaster and corruption arrows to control things when they get hectic.

I never thought about buying multiples of the same weapon and modding them differently. I sorta have my sharpshot bow modded to for everything as I have a damage mod, tear mod, and handling mod (literally just so it can fully draw during a slide lol). Plus, I kinda feel just doing 3 purple damage mods could be OPed especially considering double/triple shot. I play for maximum fun (like sliding, I love the sliding!!!) instead of for maximum effectiveness. And good fights lasting a bit longer is only better IMO.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Phoenixmgs said:
Wrex Brogan said:
One of the things I was impressed with in the game is that most of the weapons are actually quite useful - normally with games there's always something I rarely, if ever, use, but with Horizon I actually ended up using everything for different situations (except the Terablaster, but that's because the Terablaster I got *after* I finished the main quest, whoops) - even the Rattler was useful for close-quarters fights against large groups, since you could lay on some heavy status effects really quickly with it, although it was superseded by the Sling against things like Stormbirds and Thunderjaws since the build-up was just too small against such dangerous enemies.

---

The nice thing about the 'buy all your equipment' thing too was I found myself buying multiples of certain weapons to upgrade them differently and use them on the fly - I ended up with two of the Shadow Slings, Sharpshot bows, War Bows and Trip Casters, all built to handle separate situations.
I love that everything is usable. I thought the rattler was stupid, then I saw a thread about it being good. I've been using it to shred frozen enemies, it's so much fun. I haven't used it for status effects yet though. I usually use the ropecaster and corruption arrows to control things when they get hectic.

I never thought about buying multiples of the same weapon and modding them differently. I sorta have my sharpshot bow modded to for everything as I have a damage mod, tear mod, and handling mod (literally just so it can fully draw during a slide lol). Plus, I kinda feel just doing 3 purple damage mods could be OPed especially considering double/triple shot. I play for maximum fun (like sliding, I love the sliding!!!) instead of for maximum effectiveness. And good fights lasting a bit longer is only better IMO.
Yeah, the Rattler is a more... situational weapon than the others, and needs a bit of modding to get it to a solid stage (granted so does, say, the Sling and Hunting Bow), but it really shines against light-to-mid targets while you're in the thick of a fight since you can empty a full 25 bolts pretty quickly. Ropecaster I tended to save for fights with heavy bots that had support/pinning Stormbirds to the ground so I could status them effectively, while corruption arrows I found work much better from stealth when you're not on the enemy radar so they fight amongst themselves more.

Granted, the beauty of everything having a use means that you can use a lot of things in different ways - I never used the Tripcaster as a trap weapon, for example. I'd be mid-fight with a Thunderjaw or Behemoth laying wires right on top of them so it'd immediately trigger and spike their status high-as-hell.

And I kinda just went multiples of the same weapons since I focused pretty heavily on status conditions - I'd throw around bombs and traps with the Tripcaster and sling, then when everything was either frozen, paralyzed or on fire I'd start pulling them apart with a max-tear Hunting Bow (for speed) or a max-damage Sharpshot Bow/Blastsling.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Kotaku had a few points that fall into this thread as well -

http://kotaku.com/horizon-zero-dawns-little-details-are-polished-and-wel-1793056896

And yeah, one of the benefits of casting a female lead -



Phoenixmgs said:
There's some really amazing screenshots in the Neogaf thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348006&page=2
This page [http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348006&page=31] has some insane looking PS4 Pro shots.

I think this weekend if I have time I'm going to get my Avermedia capture card hooked up to my PC to see what some Standard PS4 shots look like captured that way vs ripped from the in-game photo mode. There's a big difference in image quality when something is captured closer to lossless bit-rate.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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hanselthecaretaker said:
Kotaku had a few points that fall into this thread as well -

http://kotaku.com/horizon-zero-dawns-little-details-are-polished-and-wel-1793056896

This page [http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348006&page=31] has some insane looking PS4 Pro shots.
Lol, and the 1st thing on the Kotaku article was a pic of the slide, I love the slide. I don't get how the bow controls are anything new and improved. Don't you release the left trigger to cancel a shot in Tomb Raider as well? And most games with a bow? I'm almost positive Horizon didn't do it first. I do think TLoU has the most satisfying bow just because you have to lead your target and also calculate drop, hitting THAT shot in TLoU was so satisfying. That totally wouldn't fit in Horizon though, that's just too much execution to ask of the player fighting robot dinosaurs.

I still need to really go through that Neogaf thread and save a bunch of pics, some of the framing is far beyond what I can do. The ones in combat are pretty amazing, I never think to go into photo mode in combat besides for during say a critical hit or stealth attack animation.
 

Ravenbom

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I think this game makes a great first impression.

That being said, there's a lot of things that just aren't quite right:

- Looks great on the PS4 Pro but it could really benefit from facial capture. I know not every game can afford this, it's time and that's money but I went from playing some Naughty Dog games into this and the graphics are so gorgeous in Horizon Zero Dawn that it drops it into the uncanny valley way too often.

- Tacked on morality system. I thought we got over this 10 years ago.

- UI problems. You can only keep one quest active at a time, so you can't do the training for the new weapon while you have another quest highlighted. Or in the upgrade trees, you have to click and open each individual window for upgrading say your Arrow Capacity to see the ingredients you need instead of just highlighting that upgrade. I need one item to upgrade 9 different things so that's 18 clicks then more clicks because I probably forgot half the ingredients. Or you get a mystery box from each merchant and then have to click to see the contents then click to add it to your pack... bleh.

- Could have used climbing mechanics, like other people mentioned. I thought Tall Necks would be an entire mini game and take a few minutes to figure out how to climb each time. You can run up and climb one in 20 seconds.


I really like the game, so don't get me wrong. I LOVE that you can buy back the uncommon and better stuff from any merchant. Merchants are very basic, but that's great and streamlined IMO. I'm playing Zelda also right now and will likely play Mass Effect by the end of the month. The less time I spend in pointless menus, the better.
Yuck. Zelda's menus really do their best to waste your time so I'll admit its a big pet peeve for me right now.

I see how a lot of people are praising the weapons but I haven't found a compelling reason to use even half of them. If you upgrade your strikes and stealth and melee becomes pretty over powered on normal difficulty.

It's so pretty, I love the art style, but man like Wrex Brogan said, the drop rate on certain animal parts really sucks. Like I said, playing this and Zelda and waiting for essential drops has become the bane of both these games.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Ravenbom said:
- Tacked on morality system. I thought we got over this 10 years ago.

- UI problems. You can only keep one quest active at a time, so you can't do the training for the new weapon while you have another quest highlighted.

-The less time I spend in pointless menus, the better.

-I see how a lot of people are praising the weapons but I haven't found a compelling reason to use even half of them. If you upgrade your strikes and stealth and melee becomes pretty over powered on normal difficulty.
-I wouldn't call it a morality system as I don't think it has any end-game effects or anything (I haven't beaten the story yet). There's no play through the game good to get this ending, then play through as bad for this ending (like say inFamous). I would say it's like a non-factor as it's such a lite Bioware-esque dialogue choice system it barely impacts the game at all.

-I think the tutorial weapon "quest" things are either slightly bugged or merely a small oversight. They are literally the only quests you need active to complete for some reason. I purposefully never have any active quests so remove the icons from the screen.

-I'm so careful with playing RPGs nowadays because they just have so much time wasting in them, they usually have bad gameplay/combat, and the writing is rarely good as video games have poor writing on the whole. What's the point in playing these RPGs even? I hate the whole thing where you're constantly getting slightly better weapons and gear, which makes you constantly manage your inventory. Stop tying damage to weapons and tie damage to leveling or even weapon leveling ala a Souls game. Horizon does it right by having the base damage of weapons never increase. You may want the newer weapons for different ammo types and mod slots, not because they have more damage. I've got access to just about everything where I am in Horizon (I even have the lodge weapons); however, I only use 2 of the purple weapons. I use the blue war bow because corruption arrows are so OPed that I just don't use them. I use the green rattler because I only use it for straight damage. Doing that also clears up the wheel a good deal.

-Melee isn't very powerful unless you count status effecting and then doing crits as melee. I think you should up the difficulty, I started on Very Hard and the game is really easy even on that once you understand everything. I've had to make house-rules to not use certain things like aforementioned corruption arrows and I don't use the sharpshot bow because stacking 3 damage mods (or really just 1) on it with double/triple shot is so OPed. Even the stacking damage mods on the purple hunter's bow is pretty OPed. I can probably melee everything (outside of a couple enemies) pretty well 1v1, but you'll get killed pretty fast trying to melee in any group fight, which just about every fight is. The optimum/fastest way to deal with any enemy is freezing them and then spamming damage whether from a bow, sling, or even rattler (the rattler SHREDS frozen enemies). I feel Horizon is something similar to Dishonored where it's up to the player to be creative and find their own fun methods to combat because the optimum methods are really simple and easy.

I made a video doing mounted combat against 2 ravagers using the rattler because it was fun vs the most effecient:
 

Chairman Miaow

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I just wish they had not bothered with the human enemies, the story, the usual open world fetching and gathering and just made a robot dinosaur hunting game.
 

Ravenbom

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Phoenixmgs said:
-Melee isn't very powerful unless you count status effecting and then doing crits as melee. I think you should up the difficulty, I started on Very Hard and the game is really easy even on that once you understand everything. I've had to make house-rules to not use certain things like aforementioned corruption arrows and I don't use the sharpshot bow because stacking 3 damage mods (or really just 1) on it with double/triple shot is so OPed. Even the stacking damage mods on the purple hunter's bow is pretty OPed. I can probably melee everything (outside of a couple enemies) pretty well 1v1, but you'll get killed pretty fast trying to melee in any group fight, which just about every fight is. The optimum/fastest way to deal with any enemy is freezing them and then spamming damage whether from a bow, sling, or even rattler (the rattler SHREDS frozen enemies). I feel Horizon is something similar to Dishonored where it's up to the player to be creative and find their own fun methods to combat because the optimum methods are really simple and easy.
Yeah, now that you mention it, it really is like Dishonored in that way. You kind of find one way to take enemies down and go on the forums and get completely surprised that people are doing it a different way you never thought of.

I might up the difficulty, but I think my crutch is hundreds of hours in Souls games with dodge roll and R1 and R2 light and heavy attack made me play that way. Its too deep in my muscle memory.
The aerial guys like Stormbirds kind of make my ropecaster + crits or sneak armor with rare stealth mods which gave pretty uber stealth so I could break line of sight very easily and get stealth strikes repeatedly, not work anymore.


Agreed Chairman Miaow, the human enemies really do feel like filler rather than essential.