The Makings of a Great RPG

[GuitArchon]

In recent years, we've been seeing games introduce RPG elements into their gameplay, but not many mainstream RPG's have been greeted with massive critical acclaim like they have in the past.

Sure, we've had our Fable 3's and Final Fantasy 13's, but these examples have been met with mixed reviews.

So, my 1st question to all of you is this:
"What makes for a memorable and awesome experience when playing an RPG?"

My 2nd question goes thusly:
"What are some of your favorite RPGs and some reasons why you like them?"

 

[TheHappySquid]

Needs good, memorable characters, unlike the cookie-cutter boring names coming out of Square Enix nowadays.

I enjoy Nippon Icchi games as they usually have memorable, interesting, and even legitimately funny characters, which is surprisingly rare in games nowadays.

 

[Belthalmel]

A strong story, an innovative but not stupid lvling system (looking at you FF13) and I personally prefer the old school turnbased combat. Not sure about everyone else here.

As for games I liked, Mostly the really early final fantasys (nothing past 6/Tactics), the Persona series and Nippon Ichi games like Disgaea.

 

[MrJKapowey]

Answer for Question 1:

Not turn-based, not JRPG, not too humourous/toungue-in-cheek, sufficiant storyline, non-broken economy (see Fable 3), large game area, open world, not nessecarily good graphics (see TES: Oblivion and FNV).

Answer for Question 2:

TES IV: Oblivion - It is (for me) the pinnacle of console RPGs, epic story, huge area, engaging quests, large variety of items, varied landscape.

Fallout: New Vegas - See above but include humour (in right doses), brilliant faction system, dark view of pre-war world, Cass' lines, the recognisable locale (even though I'm in England).

There, my answers to your questions. What are your's though?


BTW: Welcome to The Escapist.

 

[ryanthemadman]

immersive, deep, upgrading skills to get tougher, a brilliant story, lots of places to explore, lots of cool loot and loveable/memorable characters

i really liked KOTOR, mass effect 1&2, dragon age origins, jade empire, oblivion (well ive had a love/hate relationship with bethesda games), fallout 3, and lotor: 3rd age

 

[Gindil]

Make Mother 3 available in the US.

Something that's just about > < this much modern with style and panache, and something that no one has ever seen before.

Persona 3... If you are taking a risk by introducing an actual gay male character without being stereotype... You deserve much kudos and a lot more in big cojones.

 

[KalosCast]

Depends on the type of RPG. If it's a narrative-driven, relatively linear one, then it's well-written characters that sell the game for me. If they're not that interesting, then I simply don't care about what's happening to them, no matter how well-done the plot may be. Alpha Protocol and the Mask of the Betrayer would be my votes in this regard.

For more sandboxy free-roam ones like the Elder Scrolls series, it's defnitely the immersion and customization. I want to be able to be free to play my character how I want to play them, but to also be able to feel like I really am that character. The Fallout series did this well with different conversation options opening up based on different stats and skills.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

OP, I think you need to broaden your view of RPGs. To me, a game like Mass Effect or Fallout 3 is primarily an RPG with some other elements mixed in, and they've both received great critical and commercial acclaim.

To me, an RPG is definied by the very name of the genre: Roleplaying game. When I play an RPG, I want to be able to create a character that is uniquely mine and shape the story as I see fit. Also, most great RPGs put the player at the center of a worldwide (or even universal) conflict, accompanied by a memorable party of characters. Great RPGs should be compelling, emotionally gripping, and have solid enough gameplay to make them more than just animated storybooks.

My favorite RPGs are the Baldur's Gate series (PC versions, anyway), the Icewind Dale series, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, the Mass Effect series, the Fallout series (except Tactics), Jade Empire, and Dragon Age.

All of my favorite RPGs, in case you haven't noticed, contain all of the elements that I listed above. I have a hard time considering JRPGs true RPGs, since they're all (with few notable exceptions) terribly linear with little or no opportunity for player-driven character development; newer Final Fantasy games are at least allowing players to customize their characters' classes, which is a step in the right direction.

 

[Tsadhe]

If it's going to be an RPG with a really focused story:

Memorable characters, really fleshed-out choices to make, interesting set pieces and memorable moments. Things that you'll remember weeks down the line, recalling how awesome a certain moment was or how touching or poignant a specific scene was.

In my personal fantasy of the perfect of such RPG's, I would also say cutscenes that play out differently depending on your character's class, previous choices, and abilities. If you've got an action scene and you're playing a caster, your character better use some spells or other such powers (or biotics). If they're a fighter, they'd better get in there and freaking punch (or shoot) somebody.

The best example of this kind of RPG for me is Mass Effect 2. It also demonstrates nicely how to incorporate action with leveling in a streamlined way. The story may not have been as affected by your actions as I would have liked, but its still a striking example of how to put choice and good, memorable moments in an RPG.

If its going to be a big, open-world RPG:

Well, first off, a big, open world, obviously. I would personally like to have few factors that force me in any one direction, but there should be enough quests and opportunities for specific goals to keep things interesting if you're tired of just exploring. And there should be a LOT of things to explore, a lot of hidden goodies out in the wilderness and a lot of interesting locations to discover. Fast traveling should be costly in some way to avoid the temptation of skipping over all the interesting journeying portions of the game. Your character should be really customizable and combat should be smooth and look pretty good no matter how you spec out. And it'd be nice to avoid the "Fable Syndrome" of justing being able to level everything equally and be a Jack of all Tr(Bl)ades. If I work on being a mage, I should absolutely suck at swinging a sword unless I'm sacrificing effectiveness in my spellcasting in order to be okay at swordplay.

In my personal "This will probably never happen" fantasy, it would be awesome to have a world that evolves with your character and to have a world that is different when you start up a new save file. Features like playing as your child when you die or having your child develop a personality and maybe even fight you would be really interesting.

The best example of this to me is still Oblivion. It had great scope when it came to what you could explore, but it did bother me that once oblivion gates started opening, they got in the way of freaking everything. Also the combat and talking were kind of clunky. Okay, so it wasn't perfect, but nothing is.

Also some of the side quests in that game were better than the entire main stories of some other games, which was really nice.

Anyway, yeah, that was a lot but its something I sit around and dream about every so often. Its too bad that Fable has failed so miserably at delivering the experience it seems to want to promise. Its a little sad that the first game is still better than all its successors.

 

[Telekinesis]

Let Atlus handle it. That is all.

 

[darth.pixie]

Role-playing. Not role-watching. Not vaguely influencing roles. Role-Play. It involves playing a race, class and gender with a background I thought up as and being able to actually stick to it. Plenty of dialogue to accentuate my character's personality. Memorable characters and a solid plot. Interesting quests. It should involve interesting tactics and different solutions to a problem.

As for my favorite RPGs...Vampire: Bloodlines, Arcanum, Baldur's Gate, the Icewind Dale series, Planescape Torment, the Divine Divinity series and the Neverwinter Nights series, somewhat (Without the OC in 1).

 

[Tsadhe]

Additionally, I feel the need to talk a little about Dragon Age because it is both excellent and... not excellent to me.

Dragon Age nailed almost everything right except that it felt weird to not have a voice (I personally felt like it made my character feel like the least important person in the story) and that the combat felt really really clunky. I played it on PC for reference, and it just felt like it was really slow and kind of difficult to make it work right, I guess. I don't really know why, either. I still love the original Neverwinter Nights and don't have any problems with its interface or combat even to this day. It almost feels like the simpler graphics and such made it easier to deal with when there was a more complicated combat system than a simple hack-and-slash.

I... I honestly ended up being unable to finish DA because of this. I have high hopes for DA2 though.

 

[Skoldpadda]

An open world, but not that open that you never have a clear sense of direction. I like lots of side-quests, and some choice in how to handle them, but I also expect a clear main storyline, and a strong antagonist.

I want a good combat system, with some complexity to it. No dumbed down button-mashing shit. I love dice rolls and armor classes.

Most of all, I want good writing - an enthralling narrative, and compelling dialogues.

The games that have given me a more than enjoyable experience by meeting all those criteria are, among others, the Infinity Engine games (BG, PS:T and ID), Fallout 1 and 2, Arcanum and Knights of the Old Republic.

 

[beniki]

1) Story line.

It's a no-brainer really. People play RPGs for the story line, and the gameplay mechanics are there to support your fantasies. Leveling systems should only be there to help you feel the character develop, to let you see him grow. It should all be to support the story line, and not really for the game play.

I know that sounds like a silly idea for a video game, but for me an RPG should be about the story line first, with the game play to make you feel involved and invested in it.

2) Mass Effect as a recent game I'm crazy about. But for older games, I have to say Neverwinter Nights 1, with the Hordes of the Underdark expansion in particular being my favourite. In terms of epic story lines you can't beat Hordes. It called back to the first game, the other expansions, even all the way back to Baldur's Gate. It was the ultimate finale of any RPG I played, right down to battling a demon lord in a sea of fire and ice.

Also, it had Deekin, the most underrated RPG character ever. Shine on you crazy kobold bard!

 

[erandure]

RPG means a lot of different things to different people. I like a few of the sub-categories but especially open world games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series. I also enjoy more story driven, less open world RPGs like Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol(not Fable though, thats one series I just can't get into). On the other hand JRPGs never appealed to me as a genre and seem to be pretty different from the Western variety.

In answer to Q1, I like total freedom,internal consistancy,a richly detailed world and huge areas in open world RPGs. In story driven RPGs I love engaging and believable characters, actions which have a visable and important effect on the world and a deep and interesting plot.

In answer to Q2, Oblivion and Dragon Age for the reasons above.

 

[Irridium]

1) A deep and engaging story. Bonus points if its shaped by my decisions.

2) The Witcher - Dark, stat-based RPG where your choices affect the story and how others see you. This game doesn't hold back in its portrayal of how certain groups of people in the game are treated. For example, if you help out some elves, humans will shun you for it. If you help out humans, elves/dwarves will shun you. This includes anyone from quest-givers, shopkeepers, and just normal citizens. It doesn't pussyfoot around these issues, it tackles them head-on.

Alpha Protocol - Again, stat-based RPG where your choices have a huge effect on how the story plays out. Its also a spy-story, which is awesome.

New Vegas - A return to Fallout storytelling and combining it with good gameplay. Your choices affect things quite a bit, and you end up being able to determine the fate of Vegas. There are a lot of ways to proceed throughout the story, and lots of ways to affect it.

Those 3 RPG's are the best RPG's of this generation. Hands down.

The stories actually shift and move based on your choices, they're steeped in stats(you have to think about what you choose to level up, and not just blindly pick crap). You can't play these like action games. They're not action games. With the possible exception of New Vegas, and even then you can choose to not play that way.

They're just fantastic RPG's and fantastic games. I love them.

 

[darth.pixie]

Additionally, I feel the need to talk a little about Dragon Age because it is both excellent and... not excellent to me.

Dragon Age nailed almost everything right except that it felt weird to not have a voice (I personally felt like it made my character feel like the least important person in the story) and that the combat felt really really clunky. I played it on PC for reference, and it just felt like it was really slow and kind of difficult to make it work right, I guess. I don't really know why, either. I still love the original Neverwinter Nights and don't have any problems with its interface or combat even to this day. It almost feels like the simpler graphics and such made it easier to deal with when there was a more complicated combat system than a simple hack-and-slash.

Why does it feel weird not to have a voice? You said that you liked Oblivion or Neverwinter who, again, didn't have a voice. And there are a lot of games that don't. I'm only asking as I've seen people sharing your opinion and you've presented your points across quite well.

So...why in DA, but not say Baldur, Vampire or other games that never had VO for the main character. Maybe it's just me (probably) but Jennifer Hale and whoever voiced Male-Shepard sounded a bit dreadful. Fem Shepard sounded like she wanted to punch someone (it doesn't help that I hated Bastila) and Male Shepard was too mellow.

 

[JSkunk22]

The world needs to be interesting, the story needs to be engaging, but most and I mean most importantly of the three the characters have to make you want to give a damn about them. Personally, I felt Final Fantasy XIII handled the first and last of what I mentioned fairly well, since every character significantly develops (Save for Snow, but hey, he's Snow) and Cocoon/Pulse were pretty awesome.

Gameplay is super important as well, so the battles or whatever have to be fun, or at the very least unique so people can still applaud that aspect. I like turn based, I like real time, I like random encounters, I like non-random encounters, whatever, just make it something I wouldn't hate doing for hours and hours. Final Fantasy XII I felt started off with great battle gameplay, it was interesting and new, but soon it wore me down, the computer was allowed to flat out cheat, and the License board let you do anything, which is good or bad. I typically prefer classes, like what Final Fantasy XIII and X did pretty well, even if eventually everyone could be every class, you were forced to rely on certain people for certain aspects.

Some of my favorite RPGs are most of the Final Fantasy series, specifically Tactics, that game is spectacular and probably my #1 pick with VI close behind and all the others (save for VIII, XI, and XII) are listed somewhere. They're fun to pick up every once and a while still. Old scool RPGs like Lufia And the Fortress of Doom hold a special place in my heart, Secret of Mana was awesometastic co-op RPG (why aren't there more of these?), Phantasy Star 4 (if you haven't played this old school gem, I recommend it. It's for Sega Genesis, and the other ones in the series are ok too, but this one is easily my favorite) and I really did like Pokemon, but I lost all interest after Silver/Gold. Persona 3 and 4 are two amazing games, with 4 possibly being my favorite game of all time right now, I'm not 100% sure, but it gets soooo many points for the story being solving a mystery, the characters being interesting, and the gameplay a 1-up from Persona 3's. Still, there kinda was a class system, as certain characters were the best at something and the worst at something else, though the gameplay was a lot of fun and I really get a kick out of Social-Links.

I just want to see were RPGs go now.

 

[Kotaro]

I've always liked Persona 4, because it's lighthearted and weird. Sure, the main characters are trying to solve a murder mystery and linked multiple-kidnappings, but they're teenagers, and they investigate by entering an alternate world inside television. Yeah, it's like that.
Extra Credits had an episode looking at the other unique aspect of the game: Kanji Tatsumi (one of your party members) and his struggles with homosexuality. Very few games are willing to confront this issue, and props to Atlus for having the guts to give Kanji this kind of depth.
Plus, you can summon the freaking Devil to fight for you, so there's also that.

 

[Woodsey]

"Sure, we've had our Fable 3's and Final Fantasy 13's, but these examples have been met with mixed reviews."

We've also had our Mass Effects, Dragon Ages, Oblivions and Fallouts.