The Mass Effect Minority
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I Agree glad to see others like ME1 better here are some of my thoughts that I had posted in another thread:
ME1 is ten times better the combat system in ME2 is so bad, so is the leveling system, I should get experience for killing enemies not just for completing missions, and skills I played ME1 as a Vanguard so I thought I might play as a vanguard again but the class is terrible it is hardly ever effective to use Charge because as soon as you Charge your enemy you will most likely die in 3-5 seconds, Shockwave is only good for enemies near you and pull rarely hits at a far distance. There are no good long range attacks for the Vanguard against Bosses that are in the air like gunships or other things. In ME1 you had an arsenal of good Biotic abilities as a Vanguard, Warp, a good barrier (the barrier in ME2 is garbage basically just like regain shield in ME1), and many other Biotic. Also Biotic barely help at all half the enemies you have to remove their shields before attacking them with biotic and by time that is done it only takes a few shots to kill them anyways.
I had already sunk 8 hours into my Vanguard before it got ridiculous in Combat and I didn't want to redo those 8 hours. So I started an Adept for my Play through 2 and put half an hour into it so I could play that when I finished, the Adept is so much better compared to the Vanguard.
Now for the cover system: If I want to switch guns why would I leave cover? The cover system is the worst thing about combat. It takes so long to get into cover that you press a too many times and leap over the cover then get shot for 3-5 seconds and die. You get into cover when trying to escape death but too early because you're holding A to sprint and you hug an out of place wall only to get shot in the back.
The inventory system is stupid IMO I liked the ME1 inventory why would I want to only be able to upgrade my gun once or only have 2 choices for each type of gun. It was a dumb revamp choice.
Even the new characters I didn?t feel that sense of connection with them like in ME1. I honestly thought Jacob was just a through away character like the guy at the start of ME1 not a character that stays with you. A few solid characters though sparked my interest like "Archangel" (No spoiler), Grunt, Thane, and The Salarian Doctor and Legion where characters I wanted to live not just doing it for the achievement. I hope the first 4 I named will make it to ME3 but maybe not one of them because of his "problem"
I don't know why fans and reviewers place ME2 on such a high pedestal above its Father ME1. Every revamp they did was very shoty even replacing the grenades some of the heavy weapons don't replace the grenades well. The skill balancing between classes is horrible. The leveling system is horrible. The new shield/health system is horrible. Combat is horrible. What do people see in this game to place it before ME1?
/rant onto my positive thoughts...
After all that I sill bought it at midnight and beat it by Thursday night (logging in 33 hours within 3 days) to do so. I would like to know what difficulty most people played on because this might factor into their immense enjoyment, because it is hard as balls on the second highest difficulty and may skew my opinion of combat. After all my hate for some new features I would still give the game a 9/10 and this is why I enjoyed the parts like Conversations, Some of the new Characters, the chance to die at the end, the plot, the continuation of story, the twists, how your original choices effect the game and how characters from the original add spice to the story, The ability to interrupt conversations with Paragon or renegade actions. I can't wait for ME3 hopefully it will find the perfect medium between these games.
ME1 is ten times better the combat system in ME2 is so bad, so is the leveling system, I should get experience for killing enemies not just for completing missions, and skills I played ME1 as a Vanguard so I thought I might play as a vanguard again but the class is terrible it is hardly ever effective to use Charge because as soon as you Charge your enemy you will most likely die in 3-5 seconds, Shockwave is only good for enemies near you and pull rarely hits at a far distance. There are no good long range attacks for the Vanguard against Bosses that are in the air like gunships or other things. In ME1 you had an arsenal of good Biotic abilities as a Vanguard, Warp, a good barrier (the barrier in ME2 is garbage basically just like regain shield in ME1), and many other Biotic. Also Biotic barely help at all half the enemies you have to remove their shields before attacking them with biotic and by time that is done it only takes a few shots to kill them anyways.
I had already sunk 8 hours into my Vanguard before it got ridiculous in Combat and I didn't want to redo those 8 hours. So I started an Adept for my Play through 2 and put half an hour into it so I could play that when I finished, the Adept is so much better compared to the Vanguard.
Now for the cover system: If I want to switch guns why would I leave cover? The cover system is the worst thing about combat. It takes so long to get into cover that you press a too many times and leap over the cover then get shot for 3-5 seconds and die. You get into cover when trying to escape death but too early because you're holding A to sprint and you hug an out of place wall only to get shot in the back.
The inventory system is stupid IMO I liked the ME1 inventory why would I want to only be able to upgrade my gun once or only have 2 choices for each type of gun. It was a dumb revamp choice.
Even the new characters I didn?t feel that sense of connection with them like in ME1. I honestly thought Jacob was just a through away character like the guy at the start of ME1 not a character that stays with you. A few solid characters though sparked my interest like "Archangel" (No spoiler), Grunt, Thane, and The Salarian Doctor and Legion where characters I wanted to live not just doing it for the achievement. I hope the first 4 I named will make it to ME3 but maybe not one of them because of his "problem"
I don't know why fans and reviewers place ME2 on such a high pedestal above its Father ME1. Every revamp they did was very shoty even replacing the grenades some of the heavy weapons don't replace the grenades well. The skill balancing between classes is horrible. The leveling system is horrible. The new shield/health system is horrible. Combat is horrible. What do people see in this game to place it before ME1?
/rant onto my positive thoughts...
After all that I sill bought it at midnight and beat it by Thursday night (logging in 33 hours within 3 days) to do so. I would like to know what difficulty most people played on because this might factor into their immense enjoyment, because it is hard as balls on the second highest difficulty and may skew my opinion of combat. After all my hate for some new features I would still give the game a 9/10 and this is why I enjoyed the parts like Conversations, Some of the new Characters, the chance to die at the end, the plot, the continuation of story, the twists, how your original choices effect the game and how characters from the original add spice to the story, The ability to interrupt conversations with Paragon or renegade actions. I can't wait for ME3 hopefully it will find the perfect medium between these games.
I've seen numerous comments on ME2 threads by you, where you add nothing to the discussion, but complain about the popularity of the game, claiming it's a 'bandwagon' when you haven't even played it.s69-5 said:
People enjoy it, it's a good game, that's why it's popular.
Stop pissing on thier parade.
I think you are mostly wrong. Some of the bigger points I disagree with:
Nice try, but you start of with nitpicking and move on to just plain wrong, trollish mischaracterisations.
In ME1 there is so little variety. Sure, there are a bunch of weapons with different names but they all feel the same - the only time I noticed a real difference with a weapon upgrade in ME is getting spectre gear, and even then it was only noticeably more powerful not different. Additionally, most classes will be built to specialize in one weapon that you will use constantly. eg with an adept I used nothing but pistols and all the pistols felt the same, with a vanguard I used nothing but shotguns and all the shotguns felt the same. In ME2, even as an adept I've used a variety of pistols, SMGs, heavy weapons AND assault rifles and the different varieties of each weapon all feel different. There is probably 10x more real variety in ME2 than in ME1.
This makes no sense at all. First, it's good that moral choices are not clear cut, second you complain that it's not clear cut and immediately complain that Shepard has two clear cut good/evil personalities (What?), third it's wrong because renegade Shepard is not a sadistic murderer, paragon Shepard is not a lap dog (How is eg. defying Cerberus and blowing up the Collector base a lap dog?) and fourth it's wrong because you don't have to be clearly one way or the other, my paragon Shep did some renegade things when I felt like it and my rengade Shep did some paragon things depending on what I wanted to do.
WTF, so wrong I don't even know where to start. This is so wrong it makes you sound like a troll. For example, if you think Jack has no emotional depth after doing her wrenchingly messed up loyalty quest, you are wrong. Or Thane has no depth after conversing with him about free will and solipsism, you are wrong. Wrongitry wrong wrong.
This is such a crude and well, wrong, description of ME2's dialogue that once again I suspect you are trolling. Did you even play the game? Fuck it, you are a troll.
Nice try, but you start of with nitpicking and move on to just plain wrong, trollish mischaracterisations.
No,look at it this way. Many people get blindsided by group favor. They think, "If this many people like the game, then it has to be good. While this is true for much of the time, there is always that shit game that tries to get a free ride on the rep of its predecessor, and often gets away with it. He's saying to take a pinch of salt with it, which is good. If you can't step back from an argument, become a third person observer who has no say in the matter, and still see that your argument is logical, then you are probably wrong. They actually did a study on this, remind me to look for the link someday. They probably have millions of studies like this, including the one I just mentioned.Daystar Clarion said:
Hm, people seem to be hating on the inventory size a lot. I disagree. In ME, there were 60 different line of guns, each with 10 models or a total of 600 different guns. Thats a lot. Problem, they all were reskins. It was the same assault rifle, but with slightly different stats. It wasn't different to be a totally different gun. So in reality, you only had 4 guns.
In ME 2, there are 3 standard AR's
Avenger: Average AR. What you'd expect one to be
Vindicator: It's a Battle rifle, 3 burst shot
Reverent LMG: Freakin machine gun!
For shotguns, there are 3
Katana: Good against flesh
Scimitar: Good against shields + armor
Claymore: OP'ed SoB that's good against everything
for Pistols, 2 options
Predator: 12 round pistol, high RoF
Carnifex: Powerful, 6 shot revolver
for SMG's, 2 options
Shurikan: 3 round burst
Tempest : full auto
for Snipers, 3 options
Mantis: Powerful, bolt action, low ammo
Viper: Weaker, 12 round clip, lot of ammo, accurate
Widow: Best of both worlds. Mantis' power, Viper's ammo
and for Heavy Weapons
There is:
Grenade launcher
Missile launcher
Lock-on Missiles
Collector Beam
Nuke launcher
Everything is extremely different.
Each is a new weapon, not a re-skin.
Thats why ME2 wins, actual weapon choice.
In ME 2, there are 3 standard AR's
Avenger: Average AR. What you'd expect one to be
Vindicator: It's a Battle rifle, 3 burst shot
Reverent LMG: Freakin machine gun!
For shotguns, there are 3
Katana: Good against flesh
Scimitar: Good against shields + armor
Claymore: OP'ed SoB that's good against everything
for Pistols, 2 options
Predator: 12 round pistol, high RoF
Carnifex: Powerful, 6 shot revolver
for SMG's, 2 options
Shurikan: 3 round burst
Tempest : full auto
for Snipers, 3 options
Mantis: Powerful, bolt action, low ammo
Viper: Weaker, 12 round clip, lot of ammo, accurate
Widow: Best of both worlds. Mantis' power, Viper's ammo
and for Heavy Weapons
There is:
Grenade launcher
Missile launcher
Lock-on Missiles
Collector Beam
Nuke launcher
Everything is extremely different.
Each is a new weapon, not a re-skin.
Thats why ME2 wins, actual weapon choice.
I like the game but I too have problems with it. I hate the lack of hover grenades which would make insanity a bit more viable for a soldier who lost their tank/bullet sponge and storm abilities. Soldiers were worth using in the first one because I could sprint into the building and punch people in the face while having my shields soak 9000 damage before having to get into cover and use my AR.
Now I feel like I'm playing Gears Effect.
Now I feel like I'm playing Gears Effect.
I hated the first but love the second. They have made Mass Effect 2 a much more playable and enjoyable game, i don't understand how people who like Mass Effect don't like 2? Bioware in all sense have improved upon the first.Ghostwise said:I humbly disagree. I think they improved every aspect of the original game./flee!
I like it better than getting out of my Mako every ten minutes while searching a barren planet, waiting for a Thresher to brighten my day...quiet_samurai said:Agreed..... well almost. I hate planet scanning!! i'm rather curious why they even implemented that into the game. They should have based the upgrades on XP or credits or simply just doing side missions.Ghostwise said:I humbly disagree. I think they improved every aspect of the original game.
That said, the Advanced Scanner upgrade may have biased my opinion.
I can see where you get you opinions on most of this but the above paragraphs are both your personal playing choices. The thing with the ammo is the reason I didn't choose the powers the cover the entire team. Choose powers that only effect them or don't level them up to the point where you have the choice.GuiltBlade said:
As for the things about the characters I'll admit that Jack, Miranda and Jacob were all bland but Thane (in my opinion) was very interesting, if you actually talked to him. As for Kelly, she wasn't exactly necessary to talk to.
Anyway, it's you opinion, as much as I disagree you're entitled to it.
Scanning planets is indeed spectacularly irritating... (Apparently it's quicker in the PC version?)
The squad ammo powers are, as far as I'm concerned, your fault. I set squad ammo to myself, and individual ammo powers (the other 4th rank option) to the teammates I wanted to level to that stage, and had no problems. Also, changing ammo types via a single button press (shortcuts) or the radial menu is a lot easier than having to go into the menu, go to inventory, go to weapons, pick the weapon you want, find the relevant ammo at the highest rank you have it, and then equip it. In ME1, I rarely if ever changed ammo types because it took so frickin' long. In ME2, it's a quicker process (apart from the animation), and hence I got a lot of use out of changing ammo types regularly.
Also, everyone talking about sex? I heard 3 background conversations about sex total (admittedly all on the same planet), and one of those was a stag party! I also heard people talking about buying/selling shares, bad days at work, the likelihood of there being fish in the presidium lakes, a customer's inability to cook... the list goes on. It was a surprising amount of effort into fleshing out the universe, I thought. (Although keeping subtitles on meant that I could see these conversations continuing whilst well out of earshot...)
The cooldown thing takes about 2 seconds - I guess Bioware would try to justify it saying that it takes some of the character's energy to use a power, and hence the cooldown time is them recovering? Again though, I agree, it is odd that you have to recharge between using a tech and a biotic power
Moral choice systems are in some ways a necessary evil, allowing for a modicum of role-playing. I do disagree with the 'top-left is good, bottom left is bad' system though... It seems too easy, and doesn't leave enough morality up to player judgement
I'll have to disagree with you on the story and characters OP - Shepard's being manipulated by people who saved his life? Makes sense, gives them a bargaining chip. Admittedly some elements were a little predictable, but it seemed to make sense - that's what makes a story predictable! As for your team - you're gathering a collection of killers, psychotics and sundry other (brutally effective) scum - I'm not sure you're supposed to like them! And if you don't want to socialise with someone who can't think for themselves, don't play rpg's with pre-programmed character responses! (an exaggeration of your original point, for which I apologise)
Additionally, the combat in ME1 was, frankly, awful. The new, more heavily shooter based system, despite its shameless copying of gears of war (just need a chainsaw on my assault rifle), is much easier to handle.
Too long; didn't read? Can't say I blame you. Basically, I liked the game, and respectfully disagree with some of the OP's points (whilst agreeing with many others). But hey, everyone forms their own opinions!
This concludes my longest ever escapist post...
The squad ammo powers are, as far as I'm concerned, your fault. I set squad ammo to myself, and individual ammo powers (the other 4th rank option) to the teammates I wanted to level to that stage, and had no problems. Also, changing ammo types via a single button press (shortcuts) or the radial menu is a lot easier than having to go into the menu, go to inventory, go to weapons, pick the weapon you want, find the relevant ammo at the highest rank you have it, and then equip it. In ME1, I rarely if ever changed ammo types because it took so frickin' long. In ME2, it's a quicker process (apart from the animation), and hence I got a lot of use out of changing ammo types regularly.
Also, everyone talking about sex? I heard 3 background conversations about sex total (admittedly all on the same planet), and one of those was a stag party! I also heard people talking about buying/selling shares, bad days at work, the likelihood of there being fish in the presidium lakes, a customer's inability to cook... the list goes on. It was a surprising amount of effort into fleshing out the universe, I thought. (Although keeping subtitles on meant that I could see these conversations continuing whilst well out of earshot...)
The cooldown thing takes about 2 seconds - I guess Bioware would try to justify it saying that it takes some of the character's energy to use a power, and hence the cooldown time is them recovering? Again though, I agree, it is odd that you have to recharge between using a tech and a biotic power
Moral choice systems are in some ways a necessary evil, allowing for a modicum of role-playing. I do disagree with the 'top-left is good, bottom left is bad' system though... It seems too easy, and doesn't leave enough morality up to player judgement
I'll have to disagree with you on the story and characters OP - Shepard's being manipulated by people who saved his life? Makes sense, gives them a bargaining chip. Admittedly some elements were a little predictable, but it seemed to make sense - that's what makes a story predictable! As for your team - you're gathering a collection of killers, psychotics and sundry other (brutally effective) scum - I'm not sure you're supposed to like them! And if you don't want to socialise with someone who can't think for themselves, don't play rpg's with pre-programmed character responses! (an exaggeration of your original point, for which I apologise
)Additionally, the combat in ME1 was, frankly, awful. The new, more heavily shooter based system, despite its shameless copying of gears of war (just need a chainsaw on my assault rifle), is much easier to handle.
Too long; didn't read? Can't say I blame you. Basically, I liked the game, and respectfully disagree with some of the OP's points (whilst agreeing with many others). But hey, everyone forms their own opinions!
This concludes my longest ever escapist post...
I actually... don't mind planet scanning...
And I like being undead.....
oh well. to each his own.
And I like being undead.....
oh well. to each his own.
Some people have grabbed the wrong end of my argument. Partly because I was (and still am) too tired to properly vet my over ambitious typing.
The reason I have played it so much is not only because this is the one big title I can afford on a student budget, but because no matter what I do or say to myself it is Mass Effect 2. I may not like what's happened but its still always going to be ME2.
To list things I do like about ME2:
The environments are absolutely stunning, a marvel to behold, their better populated and feel more alive than ME. It's a shame their also somewhat smaller in feel and that conversations are repeated endlessly but that doesn't change the fact that it feels so much more real at times.
The Normandy, still an environment but it is worth noting separately. It's bigger than I thought it would be, that may be the fact that it's an upgrade on the original design but still, now its filled with people leading their lives.
Combat is improved in places, its more varied and some bits of it work out much better. I support the use of thermal clips (although you get an aggressively small number for rifles and heavy pistols) as it makes it more balanced and believable. Combined with the larger combat areas your now able to take different approaches to a target.
Modular armour is a definite step forward, if only it had more choice and variation.
Laughs, there are a lot of laughs to be had in this game. Not going to ruin any but they are very funny.
Relationships, they feel like they evolve over time now unlike in the first game (in which I used to fight to avoid them half the time, which as a male isn't easy unless you kill one option). And there is often more going on with regards the other character lives. With exceptions re Kelly and Jack. Miranda to an extent although I guess you could argue she has a vested/prior interest.
Evolution of characters is good to see as well.
post note to CmdrGoob: If by troll you mean I constructed an argument based upon the subjective self view point of a person who played this game repeatedly and then wrote this while very tired and still very tired due to insomnia. then yes I am a troll. However I pride my self on not saying the non existed word 'Wrongitry' please define for me.
The reason I have played it so much is not only because this is the one big title I can afford on a student budget, but because no matter what I do or say to myself it is Mass Effect 2. I may not like what's happened but its still always going to be ME2.
To list things I do like about ME2:
The environments are absolutely stunning, a marvel to behold, their better populated and feel more alive than ME. It's a shame their also somewhat smaller in feel and that conversations are repeated endlessly but that doesn't change the fact that it feels so much more real at times.
The Normandy, still an environment but it is worth noting separately. It's bigger than I thought it would be, that may be the fact that it's an upgrade on the original design but still, now its filled with people leading their lives.
Combat is improved in places, its more varied and some bits of it work out much better. I support the use of thermal clips (although you get an aggressively small number for rifles and heavy pistols) as it makes it more balanced and believable. Combined with the larger combat areas your now able to take different approaches to a target.
Modular armour is a definite step forward, if only it had more choice and variation.
Laughs, there are a lot of laughs to be had in this game. Not going to ruin any but they are very funny.
Relationships, they feel like they evolve over time now unlike in the first game (in which I used to fight to avoid them half the time, which as a male isn't easy unless you kill one option). And there is often more going on with regards the other character lives. With exceptions re Kelly and Jack. Miranda to an extent although I guess you could argue she has a vested/prior interest.
Evolution of characters is good to see as well.
post note to CmdrGoob: If by troll you mean I constructed an argument based upon the subjective self view point of a person who played this game repeatedly and then wrote this while very tired and still very tired due to insomnia. then yes I am a troll. However I pride my self on not saying the non existed word 'Wrongitry' please define for me.