The Mass Effect Minority

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Aug 17, 2009
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Well, three things:

1) If you "dislike [it] with a passion", why play it three times? I can understand playing it, not liking it, and trading it in, but three times? It must be doing something right.

2) I think any work of fiction is allowed to have elements that are kinda goofy, as long as it doesn't harm the experience, and the Resurrection of You-Know-Who at the start works, because of the way it is explained as one of the landmarks in medical science history.

3) The story, to me, actually feels more organic. The implementation of the interrupts, the ambiguous nature of most conversations, and the interaction with the main characters all feel more cinematic, and less like the:

---Super Good---Kinda Good
-------------\-/
Investigate------Neutral/Hurry up
-------------/-\
---Super Bad----Kinda Bad


System common in most Western RPGs, including Mass 1, and the Bethesda Formula.




But, this is just opinion clashing with opinion, but even if you don't like it, you can't say it's a bad game.

I don't like Call of Duty's Modern Warfare sub-series, but they're still damn fine games.



EDIT:

MiracleOfSound said:
s69-5 said:
Nice to know that not everyone here has bandwagon blinders on.
I haven't played so I won't comment on the actual game, because I have no idea. I don't like shooters, in such this game didn't have any appeal to me.
I've seen numerous comments on ME2 threads by you, where you add nothing to the discussion, but complain about the popularity of the game, claiming it's a 'bandwagon' when you haven't even played it.

People enjoy it, it's a good game, that's why it's popular.

Stop pissing on their parade.

My sentiments exactly.
 

moose_man

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I agree with your points, but my main reason was that I found combat boring and out of combat boring...er. I just wanted to die in combat.
 

Mr_Cynical

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TheButtonMashEffect said:
i don't understand how people who like Mass Effect don't like 2?
I don't understand how people don't understand that someone might have an opinion that's different to theirs...

On the subject of the game, there were things about ME2 that I liked, and things I didn't like, but I still enjoyed myself and started a second playthrough as soon as the credits had rolled.

If you enjoyed the game, bully for you. If you didn't, you didn't. It's not the end of the world is it?

"Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, What might be right for you, may not be right for some..."
 

geldonyetich

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I'm not real wild about Mass Effect 2 either, but for a completely different set of reasons. Basically, I think they dumbed it down versus Mass Effect 1 in every area except hit locations and reloading (which was added). You can't even drive around on planet surfaces anymore.

I finished the game, which is more than I can say for most games I buy, but I'm still unhappy in the direction the series seems to be going.
 

Mcface

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Aug 30, 2009
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s69-5 said:
Nice to know that not everyone here has bandwagon blinders on.
I haven't played so I won't comment on the actual game, because I have no idea. I don't like shooters, in such this game didn't have any appeal to me.

I do foresee a torrent of hate coming your way (which is unfortunate, since your piece is well-versed and comes from direct experience with the game). Good luck with everything!
Why is it that liking a game would cause you to "jump on the band wagon"?
 

nick_knack

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Jul 16, 2008
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Can't say I agree at all. In fact I would say either you are a troll, or you are simply wrong.


Your opinion is wrong.
 

Ph0t0n1c Ph34r

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I disliked the streamlined levels, and the removal of the invontory system, but otherwis I thought it was good. Not as good story wise MA1 but decent. I did like how they made each class feel special, like like in MA where there really wasn't a diffrmwce between an infiltrator and a soldier or an Adept and a Sentinal.
 

Mcface

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GuiltBlade said:
I will point out a few of your arguments, and defend the game, a game I enjoyed.

1.
"ME2 is apparently streamlined to make it more shooter based. I'm not sure what they meant to do but this seems to mean removing an in-game inventory, assigning too many tasks to one button and giving you a really infuriating AI to work with.
Everything for your weapons is now either a one purchase upgrade or a power activated using the radial menu, and while that brings it in line with shooters, combine RPG elements and its absolutely infuriating. How is changing your ammunition a power? Why does activating a Biotic power (think jedi force powers for people who haven't played an ME title) then prevent you from activating a technology power until its finished cooling down?"

Answer: I will cover two things, the lack of inventory, and the lack of items.
The game is set so you are Commander Shepard. Galactic Hero, the most badass in SOB in the universe. Your funded by the richest human organization, and backed by an elite special forces team, who are matched in bad ass only by you yourself. So, why would this roaming terror squad of bad ass be looking through EVERY crate for a weapon or armor upgrade? YOU ARE THE BADDEST DUDE IN SPACE. You have everything you need already. Sure, there are some upgrades you can purchase, but you wouldn't be worried about "Hm, I need to upgrade my armor to stand a chance.." constantly. The removing of the inventory and item system makes sense from the plot point of view. That being said, I would like to see more options for upgrades in ME 3. And about the weapon variety, I agree. Although, there are actually 4 possible AR types. Standard M8, Vindicator, Geth Pulse Rifle, and The Revanant. I do again however, agree there should be more.

2.
"Here's a scenario I'm constantly stuck in, my character has an ammunition power which effects all squad mates, giving them better ammunition for the situation. My ally has a different ammunition power which does the same thing but its slightly less effective. I activate mine before we go into combat and then after 2 seconds of shooting I find I'm firing incendiary rounds against shielded enemies. Oh no I better use my power and get my shield penetrating bullets back, wait now my allies swapped ammunition again, oh gods I'm using fire to take down a tank, oh gods what has gone wrong.
So after an infuriating bit of tedious conflict I turn off the squad AI, meaning they don't use powers any more, I go back into battle and Oh No my ammunitions changed again, only now my allies not using any beneficial abilities.
Some things make sense as an inventory item, Leave them there."

Answer: It's quite simple. You should have been managing how your squad levels up. YOU chose to put the point in that squad members ability, not the game. And, if you DID let them auto level-up, it's your fault for allowing them to do so. You should have managed your team better. The ammo type for the entire squad is useful if you are not a soldier. It is useless however, if you are a soldier.

3
After that, setting. The worlds in ME2 are wonderfully designed and very beautiful but it seems everyone is only interested in one thing now, their genitals. Everywhere I go I bump into groups of people talking about sex, yes people talk about it in the real world but I don't turn a street corner and walk into people having a detailed discussion about their preferred species of mate. I know ME got a lot of hype for having the romance cut scenes but this is ridiculous

Answer: This is because of the locations you are going. Shepards shady, unique way of business leads him into strip clubs, organized crime rings and back alley shady deals. What do you expect the criminals and low life's of the galaxy to be talking about? Their Credit Scores?
 

Susan Arendt

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Jan 9, 2007
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Ok, just to clarify, you're playing this game you hated for the third time. Mmmm hmm.

Moving on.
 

thenoblitt

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GuiltBlade said:
Ok, to start this off I know I am in minority here.
I dislike Mass Effect 2 with a passion.
I loved Mass Effect even with all its faults, and while I would never expect the sequel to be the same game, I feel ME2 is just not even the same series.

Disclaimer, I am playing ME2 for my 3rd round, I have some bits I like. Any hate mail will just be a pointless battle of opinions.

To address the things which people hated in ME, I agree with the Mako comments whole heartedly. I could cope with the Mako but half the time it felt like pulling teeth.

The inventory system, none stacking items was a little annoying but to be honest I never minded it, installing mods was a simple task and there was enough variety and no real bad choices meaning you could play combat how you wanted.

Combat, it was bland but functional, it got repetitive and sometimes broken but for the most part it worked.

Elevator loading screens... so? The dialogue was entertaining, it didn't take too long to get places and at least you knew when things were broken. You'd prefer just a big blank screen with the word "LOADING" printed on it?

Finally side quests, yes I agree with the changes made there for sure. ME1 side quests were often uninspired.

So now that I have affirmed that I was not a complete zealot for an old favourite lets address ME2 (or as I prefer to call it EA's mass effect spin off).

Ignoring a ridiculous plot start (seriously Shepard should be a pile of ash scattered across several kilometres, not just deep fried).
ME2 is apparently streamlined to make it more shooter based. I'm not sure what they meant to do but this seems to mean removing an in-game inventory, assigning too many tasks to one button and giving you a really infuriating AI to work with.
Everything for your weapons is now either a one purchase upgrade or a power activated using the radial menu, and while that brings it in line with shooters, combine RPG elements and its absolutely infuriating. How is changing your ammunition a power? Why does activating a Biotic power (think jedi force powers for people who haven't played an ME title) then prevent you from activating a technology power until its finished cooling down?

Here's a scenario I'm constantly stuck in, my character has an ammunition power which effects all squad mates, giving them better ammunition for the situation. My ally has a different ammunition power which does the same thing but its slightly less effective. I activate mine before we go into combat and then after 2 seconds of shooting I find I'm firing incendiary rounds against shielded enemies. Oh no I better use my power and get my shield penetrating bullets back, wait now my allies swapped ammunition again, oh gods I'm using fire to take down a tank, oh gods what has gone wrong.
So after an infuriating bit of tedious conflict I turn off the squad AI, meaning they don't use powers any more, I go back into battle and Oh No my ammunitions changed again, only now my allies not using any beneficial abilities.
Some things make sense as an inventory item, Leave them there.

Next topic everyone else has already jumped on so, yes the planet mineral mini-game is absolutely awful in its thumb destroying tedium.

After that, setting. The worlds in ME2 are wonderfully designed and very beautiful but it seems everyone is only interested in one thing now, their genitals. Everywhere I go I bump into groups of people talking about sex, yes people talk about it in the real world but I don't turn a street corner and walk into people having a detailed discussion about their preferred species of mate. I know ME got a lot of hype for having the romance cut scenes but this is ridiculous.

Equipment or the lack there of. You get very little gear in ME2 and to an extent I agree with it, better to trim it down to about 5 distinct varieties of assault rifle instead of 20 similar ones. But thats it, you don't get 5, you get 2. One which is useless and one which is good (unless you get the DLC in which case you have 2 which are useless). Bioware RPGs are normaly filled with variety, but in this game there's nothing of that. Its just another generic shooter in the mass effect universe.

Moral choice is no longer as clear cut, while Shepard needs to do morally ambiguous deeds now it often feels like the game is driving Shepard into one of two personalities. Theres no real room for role playing. Your either a sadistic murderer, or a well trained lap dog.

Characters, I loath most of ME2's new characters. Their are exceptions but for the most part they make me want to use the disk as a whetstone for an axe blade. Jack, Miranda, Kelly, Thane, Jacob, all the Normandy's deck crew. All of them feel like shallow cut outs, with no emotion, depth or real motivation beyond simply following the propaganda posters. Excuse me if I don't want to socialise with someone who can't think for themselves. The remainder are either characters who's ineffability is central to their existence, or who continued from Mass Effect.

Dialogue, where to start? It's either "I will shoot you unless you stop being evil" (and that's the good option), "I'll shoot you then tell you to stop being evil" (that's the renegade option) or finally "Lets talk about cross species relationships again" (with accompanying good and bad versions there of). What I'm saying is that I feel like this isn't a Bioware dialogue driven RPG, but merely manoeuvring down fixed paths more akin to the Japanese interactive novel. And again please stop with the innuendo, I did not need to know the details of Tuerian mating.

Ok I didn't realy want to mention this but now I feel I have to. The story in ME2 is complete garbage. It makes no sense what so ever. The big plot twist concerning the station was about as shocking as dry toast. The other major element concerning the origins of the collectors was good and stopped me using the game manual as bedding for an incontinent mouse. But otherwise its nonsensical, easily foreseen and just as easily derailed.

So that's my ME2 rant. I could think of alot more but I'm tired of writing and no doubt your tired of reading. Again, yes I know I'm in the minority and I think if I hadn't played the first mass effect then I might look more favourable on it (aside from not knowing what's going on). But for me, this was not Mass Effect, this was a mostly functional, but poorly planned and executed shooter with a JRPG style of story telling (with a bit more flexibility admittedly).
Remove the Gears of War influence, the Halo influence and then add in a bit more Bioware style influence and I would love this game.
If you realy press me then I will give you a list of things I can like In ME2, but for the most part I spent as much of it as I could with old characters and ignoring everything around me.

I like how after you said all the things you hate about it your also playing it for a third time
 

Mr_Cynical

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nick_knack said:
Your opinion is wrong.
Opinion:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

May I direct your attention to the second definition...

If an opinion is a personal view, how can it be wrong? Just because you disagree, it doesn't mean the OP is wrong.

Edit: I've just noticed I've pretty much made the same point twice now.. Sorry, it's late and my brain has turned to mush...
 

darth gditch

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Jun 3, 2009
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Hmm, you know, though I've found myself horribly addicted to the game, I think the story is a load of bollox. I like the gameplay a helluva lot better, but the lack of weapon/armor options is mildly annoying. Mineral gathering is horrible beyond all reason. But I actually enjoy the characters more, and I like the whole, "do the ends justify the means" thing going on underneath the bullcrap story. *shrug....mixed bag leaning on good in my opinion, and it's still Mass Effect. Still going to play at least two more times.
 

bladeofdarkness

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while i disagree (i absolutely love this game) there ARE two points i didn't like
the first is pretty much the planet probing (its better then the mako, but not by much)
the second is one i find more problematic with the Paragon/Renegade system
not the "quick time events" part of it, those i actually like (first time i've ever WANTED them to happen), and not the "red or blue" lines you get with a high score, but rather the normal conversational lines you have most of the time

while this is NOT usually the case, too often i find the Renegade conversational options to be less "Renegade" and more "jerk", which makes me refrain from using them most of the time
not because i have some kinda of fetish about being a goody goody hero, but because i find it kinda hard to intentionally be an asshole to characters i rather like

that said, this game (especially with a ported character) is awesome
 
Apr 28, 2008
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I agree with you for the most part. While I love the game, they did kind of remove a lot of the stuff that I liked about the first one.

-People bitched about the elevators, now we have immersion killing loading screens.
-People bitched about the inventory, now instead of having craploads of different armor, weapons, and mods, we have no armors, except parts for your main armor and DLC, 2 of each weapon, and the ammo mods are now "powers." (although I do love customizing your armor, its just a shame I can't do the same with teamates)
-People btiched about the Mako, now we have boring as hell mining.
-People bitched about the combat, now instead of being futuristic and never needing to reload, we have to reload and instead of smoothly moving in and out of cover without the need for a button, we need to use a snap-to cover system. Basically they made a unique combat system generic.

And the ammo problem you described is annoying. But when you max out the ammo "power" you can choose to have it either activate for everyone, or just make it stronger for that one person.

I played as a soldier so I had most ammo types. I would make mine activate for everyone, and have any other person's ammo power just upgrade for them.

But not everyone played as soldier so thats only a solution for those that did.

However I have to disagree with you about the characters. I actually liked most of them. The only ones I didn't really like were Zaeed, Jack, and Grunt. But other than them I found the characters interesting and fun. And I found their side missions to be the best in the game.

I also agree that the Collectors, aside from a pretty interesting twist, were a pretty weak enemy. Mainly because they had no central antagonist. In Mass Effect 1 we had Saren, and he was a pretty interesting villain. In Mass Effect 2 we don't have a central antagonist (Unless you count Harbinger, but that doesn't really count since we know nothing about him).
 

Doc Shaftoe

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I agree that it felt different. But I thought it was different in a good way. BioWare was right when they said that the story was darker in tone than the first game. I felt the cover system and movement was a little clunky at first, but I quickly adapted. I don't like Shepard's limp, but that's not a big enough issue to put me off the game. I enjoyed the story and events in the game, especially the loyalty quests. Having read the Revelation and Ascension novels, I enjoyed the references to those scattered in the game. I also enjoyed hearing about the results of my actions from the first game, and even during the second game while playing after the credits. The planet scanner sidemission is a little boring from time to time, but it's more engaging than the simple "press Y to scan the entire planet" sidequest. I missed some of the barren worlds. There was an aspect of adventure and exploration that I felt the second game sort of lacked. The more varied sidequests were fantastic, don't get me wrong, but travelling to an inhospitable world to find something amiss (or even just jettin' about on Earth's moon) really made it feel like you were out there in space. Given the M57 Hammerhead DLC that's forthcoming, I think we'll see either a few of the uncharted worlds return, or perhaps missions specifically tailored to the new flying Mako.

I enjoyed the foggier morals of the second game. You could still be a good person without sacrificing your badass factor, and some of the paragon/renegade interrupt moments in the game were really moving. I enjoyed the banter between the characters, returning or otherwise. Do I miss spending hours in the cargo hold having one word conversations with Wrex? Yes. But I always have the first game for that. Honestly, the only thing I don't really like about Mass Effect 2 is the new Normandy's tails. I liked the conning tower design better, but that's just me. Hopefully they'll allow you to repaint the Cerberus logos covering the ship in either some DLC down the road or in ME3. Some of the missions were really just fantastic. The Normandy Crash site mission was moving for me, having spend 90+ hours with one character in ME1. Honestly I spent more like 120+ hours with different characters in ME1, but the majority of the time was spent banging through on every difficulty setting with Soldier "Heavy Weapons Guy" Shepard.

I hope that I'll be able to visit some of my old haunts in ME3 or upcomming DLC. I want to check in on Zhu's Hope and poke around Ilos some more. Plus, it'd be nice to take a stroll through the Presidium and wards again. Say hello to doctor Michel. Little things like that. I did like the drinks though.

"This is... it's green."
 

Mostly Harmless

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Aug 11, 2008
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I'm the opposite I disliked the original and can't find enough reasons to get the sequel.

The story was mediocre, the characters were uninteresting and one dimensional, all the plots were stolen from other sci-fi stuff. The game play, while fun at first quickly got repetitive quickly. Side quest sucked, nothing interesting to do there. Oh and since I skipped the most side quests in ME1 I finished it in about 10 hours, which is very short for any RPG.

Oh and one more thing, I hate you type of people you will ***** about anything no mater how minute and insignificant in a game's squeal down to if they changed the f*&#ing font type in the menu screen. Seriously, judge a game by its own merits and don't lift the original on top of pedestal that makes it if they change anything its an instant sin.

The combat in the original was boring and repetitive. Snapping to cover is 10x more favorable then lazily crouching behind it. Oh, and there was not anything in original combat of ME1 that the squeal doesn't pull off much better and seamlessly.
 

Radelaide

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I don't understand how people loved the first one. God, that game bored me to no end.

Horrah for the OP! I'm glad you hate something that makes everyone else get their knickers in a twist.
 

Knight Templar

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Dec 29, 2007
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cieply said:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/474/1265148958197.jpg
That picture could apply to both ME2 and this person rant.
Anyway you [OP] made sense for the most part and didn't pull out the "its not an rpg!11" bull so its well above most complaints I hear about ME2. But a lot of your questions are answered in-game through codex and talking to people, which begs the question: If you don't use codex or conversations and dislike the combat, why are you playing the game three times?
 

JakBandit2208

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Ehh not everyone's going to be happy, I will agree with you that the planet scanning is bad, but considering what the first one had I'll take the planet scanning instead.
 

Normalgamer

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I disagree, I loved the second one, I didn't even finish the first one (It just wasn't my cup of tea.)
But the second one I played so much I beat in the first two nights, and then played it again, and again, and again.
It's soooooo satisfying to play, as each time you use a new squad, it's like your entire game changes. For instance:
Using Grunt and Garrus, your use to guns and some nice abilities, and a tank to take the heat, while getting saved by some nice sniper shots.
But when you change to using say, Jack and Tali: You now are the tank pretty much, holding the line behind cover with whatever weapon/abilities you got, while Jack uses AOE abilities and Tali rips apart their defenses.
And the list goes on, I plan on playing the game each time with a different team combination or I get bored. The story also is great, I really don't get how you can dislike the story.