The Mass Effect Minority

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nightwolf667

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Honestly for me Mass Effect 2's story got a big fat fail for, well, a lot of reasons, but for this in particular. Humans and genetic diversity. Humans are not actually that genetically diverse as compared to other species on this planet. We are not genetically diverse enough to sustain interbreeding between cousins unlike, say, cats and a host of other animals. This is made even more painful when it comes out of a universe that has aliens like the Asari who interbreed with other races. I don't care that they were trying to do a take back all through Mass Effect 2, they established it in Mass Effect and they don't get to retconn. Mostly because it's idiotic and the way they try to present it is even more stupid.

Also, I refuse to believe that a race that is as ancient and intelligent as the Asari wouldn't be doing something like that without sufficient scientific evidence to back it up. Well, they're supposed intelligent anyway, I've yet really to see any intelligence on the part of any race.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed playing the game. But I take great pleasure in sniping Harbinger because he's made of narm, along with the rest of the collectors. I shoot him first to shut him up as fast as possible.

It's my background, but when I come at any story, whether it be for a movie, a game, a comic, or a novel I have a different critical bent from the average gamer. That's because I'm a literature major and it's just what I do. I spent a lot of money to be trained to do this by professors who know what they are talking about and at this point it's reflex. Nudge, poke, take apart. How did you do it? Why did it go there? What was your theme? Where did you get this from? Etc. For me most of Bioware's stories are like glass houses, they look good on the outside but the minute you poke them they'll crumble and collapse. There's no real support system in place, the pieces are there and so are the concepts, but it's but's mostly just tacked up to look impressive and despite the massive gaping plot holes a lot of people buy into it. Bioware's characters are always written from the outside looking in and not from the inside looking out. There's no real personal connection and from the way they're written it's painfully obvious that the writers don't know what makes them tick. Often it's the voice actors who are making up for where the screenplay is lacking and sometimes it works and sometimes it's terribly and unintentionally hilariously cheesy. They usually rely on a stock set of cliches for character development and what you get is archetypes not people. Not that I don't enjoy the archetypes for what they are. (Garrus ends up being a personal favorite.) But at the same time, I'm not going to give them more credit than they're due.

That doesn't mean the game isn't fun and I have nothing to say about the game play or anything else, but I have a hard time reading people celebrating Bioware for their "innovative storytelling and deep characters" because under any true critical lens they have neither. Half the enjoyment I got out of beating the game was beating the suicide mission round one without losing anyone, including some characters that I didn't have loyalty with. No one died. I never lost Wrex either in the first game.

When I play a Bioware game, I know exactly what I'm supposed to do and what to say and to plug points into whatever gets me my persuasion score the highest so I can convince my characters that my way is the right way. It's not a challenge to figure out and a Bioware game never requires anything more than a surface level involvement, it never asks for anything more either. It expects me to take what it gives me and smile and thank them for such a wonderful experience. If I want a game that amuses me on a literary level, where the cleverness comes from real intelligence instead of gimmicks, I go somewhere else. I stick in KoTOR II and enjoy telling the Jedi Masters to shove it while still being light side. I enjoy listening to Kreia. And when I can find my boyfriend's copy of Planescape Torment, I will be playing that. I'm enjoying Vampire: The Masquerade also for the same reason. Those games require a little more than surface level involvement and I appreciate a game that asks me to turn on my brain instead of turning it off.

But as a shooter, I fully enjoy Mass Effect 2 and I wouldn't trade Joker's quips for anything. So, I guess it all comes down to what we want from a video game. I don't particularly enjoy being punished for not playing the game the way Bioware expects me too, because in the end they are giving me my experience but it's also an RPG and I paid sixty some dollars (no I didn't my bf was all sweet and bought it for me) for it, I want the right to carve out my own story and if I'm going to have consequences I don't want them to be arbitrary. A game is about the players experience, not about what the developer had in mind for the story, it's a video game, it's not their Shepherd's story, it's mine.

At least, that's what I thought a video game was about. Maybe I'm wrong. Hmm...

Still, I'm addicted to that sniper rifle and the rolling amounts of laughable narm makes the game completely worth it. It's not a total wash, there are parts that are very enjoyable but for me the overarching story is poorly thought out and just plain bad. There's nothing that's gonna change that.

Here's to the Collectors and the Reapers! Narm!
 

PrimoThePro

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I actually thought the AI was better this time 'round. they got out of my way, and actually killed things. something they seemed to abstain from in ME1.
but... you see... the way you say it, reminds me of how i talked about fable 1 and fable 2! i loooved fable 1 and fable 2... it was okay. i hope, that fable 3 will make things right. so now, you can hope that ME3 will be totally awesome and filled with the advantages of ME1 and ME2.
 

Spekter068

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GuiltBlade said:
Ok, to start this off I know I am in minority here.
I dislike Mass Effect 2 with a passion.
I loved Mass Effect even with all its faults, and while I would never expect the sequel to be the same game, I feel ME2 is just not even the same series.

Disclaimer, I am playing ME2 for my 3rd round, I have some bits I like. Any hate mail will just be a pointless battle of opinions.

To address the things which people hated in ME, I agree with the Mako comments whole heartedly. I could cope with the Mako but half the time it felt like pulling teeth.

The inventory system, none stacking items was a little annoying but to be honest I never minded it, installing mods was a simple task and there was enough variety and no real bad choices meaning you could play combat how you wanted.

Combat, it was bland but functional, it got repetitive and sometimes broken but for the most part it worked.

Elevator loading screens... so? The dialogue was entertaining, it didn't take too long to get places and at least you knew when things were broken. You'd prefer just a big blank screen with the word "LOADING" printed on it?

Finally side quests, yes I agree with the changes made there for sure. ME1 side quests were often uninspired.

So now that I have affirmed that I was not a complete zealot for an old favourite lets address ME2 (or as I prefer to call it EA's mass effect spin off).

Ignoring a ridiculous plot start (seriously Shepard should be a pile of ash scattered across several kilometres, not just deep fried).
ME2 is apparently streamlined to make it more shooter based. I'm not sure what they meant to do but this seems to mean removing an in-game inventory, assigning too many tasks to one button and giving you a really infuriating AI to work with.
Everything for your weapons is now either a one purchase upgrade or a power activated using the radial menu, and while that brings it in line with shooters, combine RPG elements and its absolutely infuriating. How is changing your ammunition a power? Why does activating a Biotic power (think jedi force powers for people who haven't played an ME title) then prevent you from activating a technology power until its finished cooling down?

Here's a scenario I'm constantly stuck in, my character has an ammunition power which effects all squad mates, giving them better ammunition for the situation. My ally has a different ammunition power which does the same thing but its slightly less effective. I activate mine before we go into combat and then after 2 seconds of shooting I find I'm firing incendiary rounds against shielded enemies. Oh no I better use my power and get my shield penetrating bullets back, wait now my allies swapped ammunition again, oh gods I'm using fire to take down a tank, oh gods what has gone wrong.
So after an infuriating bit of tedious conflict I turn off the squad AI, meaning they don't use powers any more, I go back into battle and Oh No my ammunitions changed again, only now my allies not using any beneficial abilities.
Some things make sense as an inventory item, Leave them there.

Next topic everyone else has already jumped on so, yes the planet mineral mini-game is absolutely awful in its thumb destroying tedium.

After that, setting. The worlds in ME2 are wonderfully designed and very beautiful but it seems everyone is only interested in one thing now, their genitals. Everywhere I go I bump into groups of people talking about sex, yes people talk about it in the real world but I don't turn a street corner and walk into people having a detailed discussion about their preferred species of mate. I know ME got a lot of hype for having the romance cut scenes but this is ridiculous.

Equipment or the lack there of. You get very little gear in ME2 and to an extent I agree with it, better to trim it down to about 5 distinct varieties of assault rifle instead of 20 similar ones. But thats it, you don't get 5, you get 2. One which is useless and one which is good (unless you get the DLC in which case you have 2 which are useless). Bioware RPGs are normaly filled with variety, but in this game there's nothing of that. Its just another generic shooter in the mass effect universe.

(section edited due to concentration lapse error, apologies)
Moral choice is now more clear cut, while Shepard needs to do morally ambiguous deeds now it often feels like the game is driving Shepard into one of two personalities. Theres no real room for role playing. Your either a sadistic murderer, or a well trained lap dog.
Even telling people you don't work for them lands you in the same boat as if you were at their beck and call, its just that one way you kill everything on root, the other you spare everything on route. If you pick and mix then your character is suffering from schizophrenia.
(End edit. again apologies)

Characters, I loath most of ME2's new characters. Their are exceptions but for the most part they make me want to use the disk as a whetstone for an axe blade. Jack, Miranda, Kelly, Thane, Jacob, all the Normandy's deck crew. All of them feel like shallow cut outs, with no emotion, depth or real motivation beyond simply following the propaganda posters. Excuse me if I don't want to socialise with someone who can't think for themselves. The remainder are either characters who's ineffability is central to their existence, or who continued from Mass Effect.

Dialogue, where to start? It's either "I will shoot you unless you stop being evil" (and that's the good option), "I'll shoot you then tell you to stop being evil" (that's the renegade option) or finally "Lets talk about cross species relationships again" (with accompanying good and bad versions there of). What I'm saying is that I feel like this isn't a Bioware dialogue driven RPG, but merely manoeuvring down fixed paths more akin to the Japanese interactive novel. And again please stop with the innuendo, I did not need to know the details of Tuerian mating.

Ok I didn't realy want to mention this but now I feel I have to. The story in ME2 is complete garbage. It makes no sense what so ever. The big plot twist concerning the station was about as shocking as dry toast. The other major element concerning the origins of the collectors was good and stopped me using the game manual as bedding for an incontinent mouse. But otherwise its nonsensical, easily foreseen and just as easily derailed.

So that's my ME2 rant. I could think of alot more but I'm tired of writing and no doubt your tired of reading. Again, yes I know I'm in the minority and I think if I hadn't played the first mass effect then I might look more favourable on it (aside from not knowing what's going on). But for me, this was not Mass Effect, this was a mostly functional, but poorly planned and executed shooter with a JRPG style of story telling (with a bit more flexibility admittedly).
Remove the Gears of War influence, the Halo influence and then add in a bit more Bioware style influence and I would love this game.
If you realy press me then I will give you a list of things I can like In ME2, but for the most part I spent as much of it as I could with old characters and ignoring everything around me.
Thanks for the input!

I adore Mass Effect 1 more than my own children (or I would if I had any), because I'm an unabashed fanboy. I haven't gotten Mass Effect 2 yet, and I was hoping that it would be as good as the first. Unfortunately, it seems that it isn't. I'll probably still get it, because I'm going to need a new RPG to bury my head in, but I appreciate the heads-up.

Hmm... I seem to remember a Bioware RPG that was phenomenal, and then the sequel made me want to cry and throw myself into a jet engine... Its name was a big acronym starting with K...
 

Spekter068

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Radelaide said:
I don't understand how people loved the first one. God, that game bored me to no end.

Horrah for the OP! I'm glad you hate something that makes everyone else get their knickers in a twist.
Me, I don't understand how one could NOT enjoy the first one.

Wait... Actually, maybe I can...

I LOVED it, but I can see plenty of things that other people would hate. I find that I end up agreeing with Yahtzee on all but two games: Mass Effect and Bioshock.

I detest Bioshock with a fervent passion, and I don't really know why. In all honesty, I would much rather play *gasp* Halo 3 than that trek in the submerged doldrums, and I'm not much of a Halo fan, either. However, I also seem to be in a minority group in that regard.
 

paragon1

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I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. You say you hate ME2, but you are on your third playthrough of it? How does that make sense? Maybe I misunderstood you.
 

Ham Blitz

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Even though I greatly enjoy the game I will have to agree with you on some of this stuff. The biggest one being the weapons. Most weapons only give you two versions, and the second one seems to always be better than the first. I honestly miss looking at the variety of weapons I could choose from in the first. The shotguns in this game are almost useless, and they were my favorite weapon in the first game.
That, and the fact that Heavy weapons never gain more ammo unless you find it, even when you return to the ship. That just pissed me off.
I will have to say most of the new characters I liked, but didn't really care for as much compared to most of the other people in Mass Effect 1. Very few of the characters seem to rise above the interest of Wrex for me in the first game. I will have to note that mordin is awesome though.
I will finish by saying that one of my favorite things comes with flaws. See, I played as a Vanguard, and enjoyed using biotics to annoy enemies. The new game did give some awesome new skills, such as charge and my favorite, shockwave, but it also seemed to make some degrading on old skills.
It seems that skills can get caught on cover and walls. This is alright for Warp and override, since those are like direct attacks, but when pull and throw get caught on walls, that is when I was like "What the hell?" I remember in the first game they gave you the tip to use lift (Which is now pull in ME2) to take the enemy out of cover, which made sense for what the skill does. Now, all it can do is pick people up out of cover, which can be helpful and fun to watch those floating people, but it is almost useless since most people you can pull you can kill faster than you can use lift on them.
 

Bad Cluster

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GuiltBlade said:
I liked ME2, just as much as I liked ME, but its nice to know I'm not the only one who noticed the JRPG taste in it.

I would agree with most of your story points as well, ME story felt more epic, but that's because it was new, so I can't really blame ME2 for loosing that feel. Frankly I don't care about how silly it is, if its interesting, its good enough, I never expected a book quality story from a game.

I'm going to disagree with you on one thing, ME2 is made to be played after ME, without those connections it will not be the same, its a part of the whole story.

Oh, one more, combat, the issues you listed, I never had them happen, but that's probably because I never chose squad ammo option, other than that I don't see how ME2's combat is worse than ME.
AI is not perfect(no games have a real good AI) but its better.
Combat is more variable and dynamic, often (if you play on veteran or insanity) forcing you to change strategies and change companions.
My only big issue with combat is that you spend 95% of the time in cover and that leads to some silly and repetitive level design decisions which haunt you till the end.
 

Coffeemaker

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I'd probably have to disagree with most of what you've said. I do have to agree that I was quite disappointed with the overall story of mass effect 2. The first one is all about saving the entire universe, whist in the second one you're pretty much just saving human colonies. Mass effect 2's story just seemed a whole lot less epic...
 

Spekter068

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Susan Arendt said:
Ok, just to clarify, you're playing this game you hated for the third time. Mmmm hmm.

Moving on.
He said that there are bits that he enjoys. Perhaps those little tidbits are worth going through the rest of the game for in his eyes.

I got addicted to Far Cry 2 over the summer, and while I have to say it was one of the biggest disappointments I've ever had as a gamer, I also have trouble putting it down and not picking it up again.

It's odd, because overall, it's kind of a crappy game: the design "looks nice," as Yahtzee so eloquently put it, but the missions are repetitive and seem rather pointless, and the story is... well... on vacation...

But I keep coming back to it, because the things I enjoy about it- the scenery, the exploration, the variety of equipment and tactics, and the HEALTH BAR- make me yearn for it again.
 

TsunamiWombat

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I don't hate people who hate mass effect 2, I hate people who hate me for liking mass effect 2. I also hate people who hate Mass Effect 2 for the express purpose of being cool and edgy.
 

shadow skill

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Mr_Cynical said:
nick_knack said:
Your opinion is wrong.
Opinion:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

May I direct your attention to the second definition...

If an opinion is a personal view, how can it be wrong? Just because you disagree, it doesn't mean the OP is wrong.

Edit: I've just noticed I've pretty much made the same point twice now.. Sorry, it's late and my brain has turned to mush...
An appraisal is an estimation. Estimations can sometimes be demonstrated to be factually wrong. Though this thread falls into the more subjective aspects of opinion.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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I find it difficult to agree with any apsect of the OP's post. The general improvement in the action segments was more than sufficient payment for losing inventory management (which leaves my loot-whoring out in the cold). The writing and acting in general have seen improvment and when combined with a better built world the package does a better job at conveying the setting. The plot is generally coherent and plausible within the fiction in the universe, though there is a notable lack of information required to make judgements regarding key plot points. Most of the critical data that could be used to predict the end-game has been delivered as simple supposition by characters also notably lacking in proper data.

Characters in general are somewhat dynamic across the narrative, and their actions and dialog remain generally consistant with what I know about them. The motivations of the characters is clear and in most cases is utterly plausible with the exception of Jack.
 

Klepa

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I agree with you on most of your points, to be honest.
I didn't like most of the characters. Planet scanning did suck. I personally didn't have a problem with the AI, even when I used Squad Incendiary on Grunt, and something else on myself.

The "screenplay" part of the plot is weak. You spend too much time gathering allies and doing their errands, when there's a world to save.
It's not like in, for example, Dragon Age, where you are sidetracked to help people, so they'll help you, so you'll reach the goal. Each character seriously gives you one mission that has nothing at all to do with the main plot. And it forms a big part of the whole game.

I'm an RPG geek, so I didn't like what they did with the inventory, and character skills. Weapon upgrading is tedious, and upgrading your ship doesn't even seem to make sense at first.

Do I "Dislike the game with a passion"? Hell no. It has faults, it's not perfect, but it's still a good game. Yes, some of the faults irritate me, but it's only because they're ruining something that I would've otherwise considered an absolutely awesome game.

Susan Arendt said:
Ok, just to clarify, you're playing this game you hated for the third time. Mmmm hmm.

Moving on.
So basicly this.
 

ddq5

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Jun 18, 2009
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Ghostwise said:
I humbly disagree. I think they improved every aspect of the original game. :p /flee!
^ My opinion as well. I'm fine with you disliking the game that has as of late become digital cocaine to me. /fleeAsWell
 

Et3rnalLegend64

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xqxm said:
On an unrelated tangent, i have never played either ME or ME2.

Why? Because i dislike RPG's with such a passion that i, when i can be bothered to play them, often become bored within minutes, with few exceptions.
Pointless post is pointless

On topic: I haven't played the game yet, but I'm gonna buy it as soon as I'm not poor. Is there any codex (or any other excuse) for thermal clips? I'm not passing judgement on it, but it bugs me that they're overriding the "accelerate speck of metal block to massive speed to create bullets and effectively unlimited ammo" canon from the first game.
 

shadow skill

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Eclectic Dreck said:
I find it difficult to agree with any apsect of the OP's post. The general improvement in the action segments was more than sufficient payment for losing inventory management (which leaves my loot-whoring out in the cold). The writing and acting in general have seen improvment and when combined with a better built world the package does a better job at conveying the setting. The plot is generally coherent and plausible within the fiction in the universe, though there is a notable lack of information required to make judgements regarding key plot points. Most of the critical data that could be used to predict the end-game has been delivered as simple supposition by characters also notably lacking in proper data.

Characters in general are somewhat dynamic across the narrative, and their actions and dialog remain generally consistant with what I know about them. The motivations of the characters is clear and in most cases is utterly plausible with the exception of Jack.
I really have to call into question the idea that the writing in this game is improved over the first one. This game lacked a suitable antagonist, you had more interaction with Sovereign in ME1 than you do with the Gravemind and the Flood- Oh wait I'm sorry I mean Harbinger supported by flood infected- Oh damn, excuse me, I mean Husks. I've always maintained that Sovereign wasn't a good villain because he spent too much time talking about how awesome he was, and just wasn't as intelligent as you would expect such a creature to be. Harbinger was even worse, constantly blathering on about how the Reapers are our future, all the while saying even less than Sovereign ever did. You don't think it is odd that we learn Sovereign's real name from Legion rather than Harbinger? Or the fact that the council may as well not exist at all, Shepard never once tries to explain what is going on directly, we only find out than anything has been corroborated by an outside source (In my case Ashley.) if we go and speak to (In my case.) councilor Anderson.

Does this seem to affect anything at all? The answer is a big fat no, because for some ungodly reason Bioware thinks it is a good idea to leave Mass Effect 2 so perforated with holes that it actually feels like the first six chapters of a much larger work where as Mass Effect 1 had managed to be complete unto itself despite being the opening act in a trilogy.
 

owmybody

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the writing of me2 isn't awful its the simple watered down consept of impossible odds and colorful crew members so mainsteam the halo, gears of war, and the every action movie EVER can poke fun at. side missions and easter eggs,not even the main plot, give the crew members their actually personality. I actually tried to get killed on my first runthough of the game and most of the character seemed lackluster and boring since i didn't go kicking over stones to get to known them. Trough my second more detailed runthrough i really began to warm up to some of the character. Legion,was the complete 180, miranda and jack changed from whiny cold heartless bitches to 2 dimensional sitcom character eaisly trading dialog with spanish exclamations, and thane/samara stopped boring me. Bioware very carfully won me over using some whitty aspects, but some things in ME2 are atrocious and deserve to DIE!!!!!!! The ending "No Spoilers",probing everyting except Uranus "don't ask try it yourself" and, most importantly the simplicity of choicies No Loyality = Dead, Renegade and paragon have their respected funny interuptions but the simple good/evil choice thing was somehing i belived bioware did a good job with in ME1 and then proceeded to shit all over itself in the sequel. I can't convince myself ME2 is a bad game since i enjoyed the first one so much, ME2 does a good job of fucking up some parts of the origional, but also cleverly improves some much more important aspects like dialog. Its really diffrent from the first one and honestly its your opinion wheather or not its a positive change or negative change.
 

MiracleOfSound

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Ramses the Third said:
I would like to know what difficulty most people played on because this might factor into their immense enjoyment, because it is hard as balls on the second highest difficulty and may skew my opinion of combat.
I just finished it on the second highest difficulty, and I thought for the most part the combat was well balanced and fun apart from a few niggling issues:

1. Cover system is glitchy.

Sometimes Shepard will just pop out of cover for no reason when you aim in a certain direction, other times you can aim over an object but just get popped back into cover. This needs a patch.

2. Squad AI sucks.

They are just plain dumb. I had to do a Harbinger and assume control of thier powers and placing, and even then they would often not go where I told them and run straight out into crossfires getting themselves killed.

3. Some enemies have cheap attacks and the level design does not always give you sufficient cover

Examples: Scion ground pound attack, Harbinger's knock you out of cover blast, the side mission with the three YMIR mechs destroying the crates



These issues aren't so bad on normal, but on higher difficulties when you're getting killed and it wasn't your fault it can get irritating.

Still, it's 99% great, and most of the combat was challenging but manageable on hardcore, the two bits I had trouble with were the two Scions and multiple husks on Horizon, and the
Preatorian battle on the Collector ship.
 

Skoldpadda

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I enjoy the game, but I agree on a couple of points.

People are using the word "streamlined" - that's a bit of a euphemism. Bioware went in with sledgehammers and tore the thing apart. Oh, inventory a bit clunky? Let's take it the fuck out! Don't streamline it, no, just remove the whole thing, give the punters 2 different guns, and stuff the ammo somewhere between the biotics because we don't know where else to put it otherwise.
Mako kinda hard too handle? Abracadabra Mako-B-gone! Stuff planet exploring up your nose, we shall give you the most tedious mini-game ever instead. We could streamline the thing, but we won't. Oh, what's that? People are still calling our game streamlined Heh, ok then. Fine by us.

ME1 was clunky as an RPG, so on one hand it's understandable that they've dropped the pretentions and turned the game into the shooter it wanted to be. But on the other hand, they've created other problems en lieu of the old ones with their laziness (that's right, it's lazy). New problems that could use some streamlining.

I also agree with your point about the loading screens. Thanks a fucking bunch, internet, for your incessant whining. Here was a perfectly functional device for hiding loading screens, and you demanded it gone. And now you've got loading screens. Well done.

I also agree about the innuendo. Again, thank you, internet. Soon it will become embarrassing to play any game in the presence of your girlfriend. It's just sex sex sex everywhere. The cast is like a bunch of highschool kids.

That being said, it's still an overall enjoyable game, with an overall enjoyable story.
But it's far from perfect, and you know what, Bioware? you should listen less to your "fans".