The moral behind Skyrim's two factions

[Riddle78]

Skyrim Independancy as gained by Ulfric's war will cause the ruination of both Skyrim and the Empire at large at the hands of the Thalmor,because the Thalmor will just sweep in and conquer while both sides are crippled (which is what they're banking on). If Skyrim remains a part of the Empire,then total ruination is far less likely,and a PROPER insurrectionist movement can take place. Possibly spearheded by the Dovahkiin,for the Skyrim Branch,anyways.

So,yeah. Empire,for the sake of long term survivability.

 

[gigastrike]

Stormcloak, they actually leaned towards FREE SPEECH, and the right to practice whatever religion you damn well please.

As did the Imperials. Only difference is that the Imperials recognize that the Thalmor will beat the stuffing out of them if they don't comply with the demands of the White-Gold Concordant. As soon as they get some breathing room they're gonna legalize Talos worship like crazy.

 

[Vrach]

Big quote

Ah but you see the Empire kicked the Altmeri out in the last invasion and only signed the WCG to get some breathing room to rebuild their forces. It was never enforced until Ulfric messed everything up and in fact they were preparing for an invasion into the Summerset isles and will start preparing for that invasion again after the civil war.

And that invasion will be glorious! Manmer battle mages, Orsimer, Nord and Imperial infantry and cavalry armed with Orsimer forged weapons and armour. Led by a Dragonborn whose Thu'um will shatter cities and break the land in two.

And what exactly makes it a better idea to fight a civil war instead of saying "oh hey, look, a Dragonborn, let's fuck shit up instead of wasting both our and Nord troops fighting for control of an ally's territory over an issue we don't really give a toss about and are about to start another war over"?

Seriously, as Dragonborn, I'm willing. That's why I'm taking back Skyrim with the Stormcloaks. The time for the war is right now, while he's alive (they may be strong, but they don't live forever) and in his prime. He even has the aid of a dragon (trust me, it makes a difference on the battlefield, the moral switch alone is enough to turn the tide of battles) and I wonder how hard it would be for him to persuade more of them to join. Paarthunax's final comment was that he was gathering dragons towards his Way of the Voice. What's to say more dragons like Odaahving would not bow to the Dragonborn as he leads them into battle? Hell, maybe Paarthunax himself would be an ally, along with any others he rallies to his cause.

 

[Lunar Templar]

assuming i ever get Skyrim

nether.

i've seen no reason to throw in with ether side really.

on the one hand you got the guy being manipulated by the Thalmor, to, near as i've gleend, protract the war between the empire and skyrim, though its also stated in the same text ether side winning is over all bad for them and approaching Ulfric dricetly to try and bring him in is a bad idea.

and then theres the empire, which, again, near as i've gleend, pretty much incapable of standing up for it self at this point. ignoring the fact they try killing you at the start.

so with the choices being 'puppet' or 'weaklings' i choose 'solo'

 

[natster43]

I haven't played it yet, but from what I know from listening to my brother the empire rules with an iron fist(?) and the rebels are all bigots. So I am probably going with the empire for my main whenever I play it.

 

[LittleJoeRambler]

Currently I'm wandering around with a sneaky assassin type character; I've made it a personal mission of mine to depopulate any Imperial or Stormcloak camps I find, just for the hell of it (and it seems like the kind of thing my character would do).

I'd have probably sided with the Stormcloaks; puppet or not, I think Ulfric is charismatic enough to inspire a true uprising to retake Skyrim. If nothing else, the Nords would die with swords in their hands rather than being slowly strangled out by ever-increasing power. And who knows? Maybe the Dovahkiin would happen to reveal Ulfric's true nature, and then seize power himself/herself. Armies led by the Dragonborn would probably fare better than either the Imperials or the Stormcloaks.

 

[theultimateend]

Well, from similar such threads, most Stormcloak supporters go with the "Imperials tried to kill me" argument, which would imply you should join the Nazis in WW2 if you get nearly executed by the USA over a misunderstanding and later pardoned. Beyond that, all Stormcloaks have is whining about the White-Gold Concordat, which the Empire was forced into. The Imperials don't like the Concordat and are only biding their time until they can do something about it (as much is basically spelled out for you by Tullius). But no, Ulfric wants to weaken the humans even more by fracturing their unity, which would simply be justification the Thalmor need to invade Skyrim (now weakened by civil war) and/or the Empire ("blaming" them for not stopping the Stormcloaks). In fact W-GC was designed to fracture the human nations and make them easy pickings, and Ulfric is an unwitting pawn of the Thalmor (as is evidenced by a journal you recover during Diplomatic Immunity). Honestly, there is no justification for joining the Stormcloaks other than "My character is a racist and/or moron"...

I chose a mod that starts me in whiterun as a beggar instead of at the starting town. This only makes RP weird for a single conversation with the Jarl of Whiterun. Otherwise its solid.

For me I couldn't see joining the imperial after they told me "Well we torture and murder people because we must." This is obviously false.

Alternatively the Stormcloaks are INSANELY racist. Good lord. Could they be anymore KKK ish?

My current roleplay is an Argonian with a virile hatred of the Thalmor. Otherwise he won't side with either faction because he doesn't feel that either has done anything to deserve vengeance.

But otherwise I have trouble joining either side. I >hate< Ulfric so much I want to blade him in the skull. The leader of the imperials seemed like a total ignorant ass also. The guy chatting in the blue castle in solitude.

The only person more unlikable than both of them is the chick in Whiterun. I'm forgetting her name. I want to burn her alive...

Otherwise the vast majority of NPCs are lovely people. I really like most of the Jarls and enjoy a good deal of the citizens.

Especially the General Store and Blacksmiths in Whiterun.

Really though, I didn't put much thought into the decision. The Thalmor really pissed me off though, so I decided to pick whichever side was more directly opposed to them. Which just so happened to be the stormcloaks.

They...they really aren't >_>. Give it time, there are tons of great journals in game to steal.

 

[pffh]

Big quote

Ah but you see the Empire kicked the Altmeri out in the last invasion and only signed the WCG to get some breathing room to rebuild their forces. It was never enforced until Ulfric messed everything up and in fact they were preparing for an invasion into the Summerset isles and will start preparing for that invasion again after the civil war.

And that invasion will be glorious! Manmer battle mages, Orsimer, Nord and Imperial infantry and cavalry armed with Orsimer forged weapons and armour. Led by a Dragonborn whose Thu'um will shatter cities and break the land in two.

And what exactly makes it a better idea to fight a civil war instead of saying "oh hey, look, a Dragonborn, let's fuck shit up instead of wasting both our and Nord troops fighting for control of an ally's territory over an issue we don't really give a toss about and are about to start another war over"?

Seriously, as Dragonborn, I'm willing. That's why I'm taking back Skyrim with the Stormcloaks. The time for the war is right now, while he's alive (they may be strong, but they don't live forever) and in his prime. He even has the aid of a dragon (trust me, it makes a difference on the battlefield, the moral switch alone is enough to turn the tide of battles) and I wonder how hard it would be for him to persuade more of them to join. Paarthunax's final comment was that he was gathering dragons towards his Way of the Voice. What's to say more dragons like Odaahving would not bow to the Dragonborn as he leads them into battle? Hell, maybe Paarthunax himself would be an ally, along with any others he rallies to his cause.

The way of the voice is not a way of war. What parthy will do with those dragons is teach them to meditate on top of some mountain for the next few hundred years and will definitely not want them to do anything aggressive. Remember ohdahviing is not a follower of the way of the voice. Additionally remember that the dragonborn is still a mortal that needs to eat and he'll still be in his prime a few months (year tops) when the imperial invasion begins.

And if you think the dragonborn can lead the stormcloaks to victory through starvations and uprising after the Thalmor blockade imagine what he could do with the nords AND the rest of the empire in Summerset isles with a real fleet that can match the Thalmors.

Oh and the empire needs the nord troops and skyrims mines that's why they are trying to hold on to it so they can fight the Thalmor it's not just some "lulz we don't want people other then us to have power" in fact the Jarls pretty much ruled Skyrim without imperial intervention as long as they supplied men and supplies to the empire.

 

[Syzygy23]

Yes, ANOTHER SKYRIM THREAD. Get over it, or join in. It's an awesome game, it deserves to be discussed. You like games without substance? Then fuck off.

Anyway, I was listening to the Sovngarde Song by Gavin Dunn. And just from reading the lyrics you could tell he played Stormcloak and that the song was from their angle. Now, don't get me wrong, the song itself is fucking awesome. I mean, it's almost as inspiring as Age of the Dragon, but I'm on the side of the Legion. This makes me love the song for it's epicness and power, but hate it for being supportive to fictional racists who don't see the big picture(and Ulfric is just a power-hungry idiot). I will still listen to it for a long time to come, but I can't help but be a little mad somewhere in the back of my head...

The point of this thread, was to see WHY you support the faction you've chosen. It's not a "are you legion or stormcloak" thread. It's a thread about the moral grey area that these both inhabit. From trailers I always thought they would make the war really black and white, but they did pull something amazing off with it. There really is no right answer.

Discuss your morals.

Actually, if you read a letter you can find in the Thalmor Embassy, you find out that Ulfric was captured by the thalmor during the war, tortured and brainwashed into starting the rebellion in order to weaken skyrim and the empire.

The stormcloaks are very clearly in the wrong, as they are allowing the genocide of their people, and perhaps all of humanity at the hands of the thalmor. Plus, they're racist about it too. Is the empire racist? Fuck no they aren't racist.

 

[Vrach]

The way of the voice is not a way of war. What parthy will do with those dragons is teach them to meditate on top of some mountain for the next few hundred years and will definitely not want them to do anything aggressive. Remember ohdahviing is not a follower of the way of the voice. Additionally remember that the dragonborn is still a mortal that needs to eat and he'll still be in his prime a few months (year tops) when the imperial invasion begins.

Way of the Voice is not pacifism, it's overcoming their inner nature that makes them yearn to rule over men and the world through their power. Paarthunax was not sitting around with his dick out when you were fighting Alduin, he was breathing fire all over his arse - he's obviously up for fighting for a good cause and he's an ally to the Dragonborn. I'm not saying it's a done deal, but I don't think negotiations with him/his group are impossible.

And I'm aware Odaahving is not a follower of the Way of the Voice, that's why I mentioned him. He follows the Dragonborn because the Dragonborn displayed his power. Just what stops the Dragonborn doing the same with a number of other dragons?

And if you think the dragonborn can lead the stormcloaks to victory through starvations and uprising after the Thalmor blockade imagine what he could do with the nords AND the rest of the empire in Summerset isles with a real fleet that can match the Thalmors.

Oh and the empire needs the nord troops and skyrims mines that's why they are trying to hold on to it so they can fight the Thalmor it's not just some "lulz we don't want people other then us to have power" in fact the Jarls pretty much ruled Skyrim without imperial intervention as long as they supplied men and supplies to the empire.

No, I believe the Dragonborn can sit on top of the Empire's army and kick the arse of Thalmor with Skyrim at his back. What the Empire needs to do is accept that as an option. Them refusing it out of pride or whatever is their downfall, not the Dragonborn's, not Ulfric's and not Skyrim's.

 

[pffh]

No, I believe the Dragonborn can sit on top of the Empire's army and kick the arse of Thalmor with Skyrim at his back. What the Empire needs to do is accept that as an option. Them refusing it out of pride or whatever is their downfall, not the Dragonborn's, not Ulfric's and not Skyrim's.

Wait did I or you miss something since when did they refuse this because to my knowledge that's exactly what's going to happen after Ulfric is defeated.

 

[Vrach]

No, I believe the Dragonborn can sit on top of the Empire's army and kick the arse of Thalmor with Skyrim at his back. What the Empire needs to do is accept that as an option. Them refusing it out of pride or whatever is their downfall, not the Dragonborn's, not Ulfric's and not Skyrim's.

Wait did I or you miss something since when did they refuse this because to my knowledge that's exactly what's going to happen after Ulfric is defeated.

I meant after you take over Skyrim with Ulfric, if you go this way, the Empire has a chance to accept Skyrim as an ally and do the same thing.

 

[pffh]

No, I believe the Dragonborn can sit on top of the Empire's army and kick the arse of Thalmor with Skyrim at his back. What the Empire needs to do is accept that as an option. Them refusing it out of pride or whatever is their downfall, not the Dragonborn's, not Ulfric's and not Skyrim's.

Wait did I or you miss something since when did they refuse this because to my knowledge that's exactly what's going to happen after Ulfric is defeated.

I meant after you take over Skyrim with Ulfric, if you go this way, the Empire has a chance to accept Skyrim as an ally and do the same thing.

If anything it will be Ulfric that will be to proud to ally with the Empire remember he kills Tullius for no reason other then petty revenge as far as I'm concerned Ulfric has no honour. Besides how many stormcloak soldiers do you think will be willing to fight alongside the multiracial armies of the empire far from home if Ulfric wins? Or how many will be willing to leave their homes after the Thalmor blockade starts? Or the Dunmer uprisings? Or the Forsworn attacks? How many dunmer do you think the stormcloaks will tolerate before they start thinning the herd so to speak? How many do you think will think it's fine that the Thalmor are invading the empire again and that it deserves it after the "occupation of skyrim"?

 

[thiosk]

Grey area? Grey area? What grey area?

Morally, you murder everyone in the NAME OF THE EMPEROR (whom you also evnetually murder. in then name of someone else).

 

[Deathmageddon]

I've posted this before, but I chose the legion because of their actions at Helgen. Trying to execute me because I was caught in the company of rebels was the Machiavellian thing to do. Plus, even if Ulfric took over Skyrim, How can he stand up to all of the other Empire-controlled provinces?

 

[The Mighty Pepper]

The main reason I didn't support the Stormcloaks is just because I don't see how Ulfric expects to stand up to the Thalmor himself. They were able to bring the most powerful empire that had ever existed to its knees, what chance did he have? Pretty much condemning your country to destruction by 'Liberating' it? I don't buy it -_-
Also The one character I did go stormcloaks for I abandoned halfway through the siege of Whiterun... I am never gunna be able to go the entire way through with that... Jarl Balgruff is a legend D':
Finally, I hate Ulfric. He was a power-hungry, intolerant, short-sighted ass hole.
And I hate him.
So. Much.

OH! Imperials have cooler looking armour too! And aren't HORRIBLY racist. Only a little racist... I can live with that.

So, yeah... Death to the stormcloaks!

 

[Outcast107]

I've posted this before, but I chose the legion because of their actions at Helgen. Trying to execute me because I was caught in the company of rebels was the Machiavellian thing to do. Plus, even if Ulfric took over Skyrim, How can he stand up to all of the other Empire-controlled provinces?

I just want to ask, you did play the game right? The Empire has no other provinces, even if it did Ulfric doesn't even care about the Empire. It just wants them out because they are "serving" the Thalmor. Letting them mostly do whatever they want.

The Empire has NOTHING any more. Just Skyrim and High Rock. Hammerfell was given away by the Empire to the Thalmor which they also rebel and kick the Thalmor out, Elsweyr was liberated by the Thalmor. Black Marsh just broke apart and took over Morrowind. The Empire doesn't really have anything else.

snip

Sure, skyrim might be in danger of fighting the Thalmor but you also have to understand is while the Thalmor are busy trying to take over Skyrim, they will be heavily underman. Dealing with rebels in their own territories, probably have to keep a watch from any attack from Hammerfell (I'm pretty sure they aren't going to sit back and wait.), and have to keep a eye on the Empire.

With Skyrim by itself, the Thalmor will have to fight on way to many fronts. Letting everything do their part. With the Thalmor still in control of both Skyrim and the Empire, their mostly won't be any sneak attack. The Thalmor will just attack one thing at a time. Mostly the Empire first, and the empire will just call warriors from high rock and Skyrim to help it out. As well know when the Empire is going to attack probably having spies within its boarders. So the Empire losing Skyrim will be the best thing for everyone.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I chose to side with the Stormcloaks because my character is a Nord who does lean towards racism really, but mostly against elves and he's willing to give the Dunmer a chance. I can kind of see why both sides make some sense, and I see both as being decent choices. The only bad choice would be not picking a side. That would mean the civil war would continue without a victor and the Thalmor would take over. I may dislike Ulfric and his methods, but I do find some sympathy in the reasoning behind what he's doing. To be fair, I feel the same way about the Empire. Both are going about things poorly and are acting without honor. Ulfric just seems like the only one willing or even capable of changing. From what I've seen the Empire's general is just a douche.

I've posted this before, but I chose the legion because of their actions at Helgen. Trying to execute me because I was caught in the company of rebels was the Machiavellian thing to do. Plus, even if Ulfric took over Skyrim, How can he stand up to all of the other Empire-controlled provinces?

I'd actually love it if you corrected me on this, but are there any other Empire-controlled provinces? From what I've seen its just Cyrodil and Skyrim at this point, or at least those are the only territories in good shape.

 

[kommando367]

Neither because both of their armies combined are nothing compared to my own wrath.
Every single battle on both sides is usually "watch the protagonist rip the enemies apart and occasionally get in his way and die"
If the game gave me the option to, I could just ride Odahviing straight into the Thalmor places of power, kill everything, and sell all the looted gear before they had a fucking clue what hit them.