The Myth of the Angry Feminist

[armaina]

If feminists don't want to be stereotyped, they should stop stereotyping men. I've not yet met a feminist who doesn't regard all men as rapists. SOMEONE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG.

*waves* Sup :V

Would you rather be raped or killed? 80% of homocide victims are male.

I know, let's ask that question to rape victims. It's not like any of them have attempted suicide or anythin- oh wait.

Everyone has it bad. I think men have it worse. Still though, it must be good victimising yourself.

If you look at problems for women outside of North America, you'll notice it's not as 'easy' as you might think it is.

 

[Flatfrog]

If feminists don't want to be stereotyped, they should stop stereotyping men. I've not yet met a feminist who doesn't regard all men as rapists. SOMEONE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG.

I'm a feminist.

I don't believe all men are rapists.

You're wrong.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think it's the same problem as someone saying they are for animal rights. It doesn't mean you are gonna break into a lab and set all the animals free but thats probably the first image that pops into people's heads.
The way some people use the word feminist nowadays its in the same tone as Nazi. I once argued on a wow forum that women were perfectly good drivers and people were talking rubbish. I even quoted accident statistics to prove it. A woman actually went nuts at me and said I was a bra burning feminist and I should just accept that women aren't as good at some things. (As it happens she was one of those noxious wooo look at me im a girl gamer looove meee and give me gold types.) She was willing to degrade her own sex for approval of the men, to keep them happy... no wonder they didn't want us to vote. :/

 

[ZeroMachine]

You're absolutely right about what feminism is SUPPOSED to be, but you see, the thing is, many women take it out of context and actually DO turn into angry, men hating feminazis. I've dealt with one myself, and so has a friend of mine (a male feminist) who is in a feminism writer's class.

To better explain, my friend's mother believes that media, oversexualization, and (no joke) dicks (the organ, not the type of person) are the fault of EVERY problem in the world (that religion doesn't cause). She's fucking psychotic.

Every great cause will have people in it that take it too far. But I have friends that are true feminists. Those are the people I respect.

 

[Mallefunction]

Look, it sucks to be EITHER gender in this world because this world SIMPLY. IS. NOT. FAIR. However, trying to COMPETE over who has it worse is not going to help, guys. Why not try to simply improve things for EVERYONE hmmm? This is not (for the lack of better phrasing) a dick-waving contest here.

 

[armaina]

I think it's the same problem as someone saying they are for animal rights. It doesn't mean you are gonna break into a lab and set all the animals free but thats probably the first image that pops into people's heads.
The way some people use the word feminist nowadays its in the same tone as Nazi. I once argued on a wow forum that women were perfectly good drivers and people were talking rubbish. I even quoted accident statistics to prove it. A woman actually went nuts at me and said I was a bra burning feminist and I should just accept that women aren't as good at some things. (As it happens she was one of those noxious wooo look at me im a girl gamer looove meee and give me gold types.) She was willing to degrade her own sex for approval of the men, to keep them happy... no wonder they didn't want us to vote. :/

Very much agree'd on that point about Animal rights.

Also.. What?! I also refuse to believe that a gender itself makes you inherently bad at something. Sure, there might be something that the chemistry of a certain sex might make you more adept to one thing or another, but that doesn't mean you can't do something outside of that. :/ (that and sex has nothing to do with driving anyway...)

 

[Dense_Electric]

Getting paid less than men for the same work, having a vastly higher chance of getting raped, having to deal with pregnancy, dealing with religious bigots who think they're subhuman.... wow, women sure have it easy!

Getting more financial benefits, lower insurance rates, free drinks in bars and clubs, not being labeled sex-offenders, not having to register for selective service, and a hundred other things, all for merely being born with a vagina! It's funny how you just *ignore* what you don't want to see.

@ OP - If feminists are for equality, why don't we call them "equalists?" "Femninist" suggests being pro-female, just like "Masculinist" suggests being pro-male.

 

[armaina]

You might notice that you snipped the bit of my post that addressed this. Well done!

Because I wasn't talking about 'liberating' men, I was talking about bringing women to the same level. So, no, it didn't really address it.

I'm not American. I'm Australian. No doubt you're trying to say "Females that aren't in the west/far east have it shit". Yes they do. Which is where feminists fail. My biggest criticism of feminists is that they seem more bent on arguing over semantics in Western countries than exporting their feminism to Islam and Africa.

I refer you to the book "Manhood", "Affluenza" and former Harvard Professor - who I'll go grab a link of talking about the pay gap.

I don't see how feminists fail in that aspect, because the majority of feminists movements are about the global effect of woman's rights. The fact that you don't seem to be aware of this just shows how nearsighted you are in this matter.

I'm right on every single case.

I have yet to see the statistics to support this.

 

[Colour Scientist]

If feminists don't want to be stereotyped, they should stop stereotyping men. I've not yet met a feminist who doesn't regard all men as rapists. SOMEONE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG.

I've never heard of a woman, nevermind a feminist, who regards all men as rapists.

 

[Doth]

Feminism seems to be about women wanting to be treated like men, which doesn't seem particularly feminine in my mind. The absurd ways they go about this doesn't help either.

Too few women in certain professions? Lets lower the standards and force an arbitrary amount of women to be employed!

Makes perfect nonsense.
Let men be men; women be women.

 

[FarleShadow]

Why isn't anyone addressing the real question of this thread?

"Why didn't you just post it in the original thread about this very issue? It wouldn't even have been off-topic"

 

[Flatfrog]

Here is a good quote to really sum up my opinion of it all but unfortunatly there is no name on it

"If women had equality with men I could lift a manhole in the street and see her down there keeping the crap flowing alongside the men. I could look up and see women walking around atop half built skyscrapers. I would see them down mines. On fishing trawlers. I would see them emptying bins on those smelly wagons. I would see a 50-50 casualty rate between the genders on battlefields. I would see them on oil rigs. I would see firewomen carrying men over their shoulders down ladders. I would watch disasters like the 9-11 videos and instead of watching women screaming and running away from the towers I would see them beside the men running INTO the buildings. I would see females appearing in the deaths at work stats on an equal footing. I would see men getting custody close to 50% of the time in family courts. Women getting the same sentences as men in courts. Male rape victims being discussed on TV with equal regularity as female victims. I would see jails packed with females guilty of paternity fraud and women cheering to see them there. I would see male victims of abuse having shelters to go too with their children, and Ads on TV trying to help them. All of this, and much more though, is NOT what is meant by females when they say "equality." When they use the word "equality" it means "preferential treatment." It means, 'no matter how badly behaved I am; no matter how sexist I may be; no matter how brutal I can get; no matter how many lies I tell; no matter what crimes I commit; no matter what statistics I distort. I want to be treated like an infant, allowed to get away with it and NEVER have to face up to my responsibility for it. Unless, I want a boardroom job, then I want to be treated as an adult until I have got it. AND, if you (men) do not let me then you are not a man. ' THAT is the feminist meaning of equality."

I can't even begin to describe how offensive that quote is or how badly it parodies the views of feminism.

Feminism isn't the claim that men and women are identical. It's the claim that all people have the right to be treated with equal respect. To be more precise, feminism is the belief that men and women *aren't* treated equally, and that this is a bad thing

Obviously, there are good biological reasons why women as a whole and men as a whole have different traits - there are obvious physical differences, and more contentious but generally agreed psychological ones. What feminism argues is firstly that these differences don't amount to differences of *worth*, and secondly that differences between groups have no bearing on the relative merits of individuals - I may be a man, but there are plenty of women that could beat me up in a fair fight!

Another key issue, which is more divisive, is the issue of positive discrimination, which essentially amounts to this: society has been dominated by men for centuries. These gender roles are so entrenched, a woman of equal merit to a man has a relatively more difficult task achieving the same goals in life. Therefore we should offset this inequality of opportunity by positively discriminating in favour of women until the balance is restored.

I'm on the fence about the last point. Generally I think it's a bad idea, but I can't help feeling that it's backed up by statistics.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I'm not American. I'm Australian. No doubt you're trying to say "Females that aren't in the west/far east have it shit". Yes they do. Which is where feminists fail. My biggest criticism of feminists is that they seem more bent on arguing over semantics in Western countries than exporting their feminism to Islam and Africa.

Maybe because that would be highly suspect?

Look, I appreciate you probably haven't ever read a feminist book in your life. But for most people, that would kind of invalidate talking about the issue like you can genuinely criticise it.

There are libraries and libraries of work on feminism and development, feminism and the third world, feminism and race, feminism and nationality. Do you want me to go on? These books are widely read by people involved in international development.

The reason feminist won't go over like priests and give sermons on how Western liberalism has set them all free should be fucking obvious. For one, it kind of hasn't, and for two, there are a fairly large number of women in those countries who really don't need some white girl to come in and fix their lives using her magical white people powers.

I refer you to the book "Manhood", "Affluenza" and former Harvard Professor - who I'll go grab a link of talking about the pay gap.

Wow.. well, my dick is properly shrivelled. A parenting guide and an alarmist middle brow 'issue' book, both of which are by men and are doubtless completely aware of all the recent issues and scholarship in the fields of gender and sexuality studies.

Look, if you're going to respond to feminism, you need to read some feminist books yourself or, at worst, respond with the words of people who have. It's not convincing to find one unacademic study and hoot about it because it matches what you already 'reckon' about the world.

I read feminist books every week, in fact that's escalating as it's coming up to exam time. If you want some legitimate counterarguments to feminism I'll give you some, but at the moment you're just coming off as a chauvanist.

 

[dogenzakaminion]

Wierd how this whole thread turned into a "men have it worse! No, women have it worse!...NO! MEN have it worse! NO! WOMEN!... and so on"

I think what many of you people who arearguing about what feminism is, are forgeting that even the most influential people in terms of equal rights for women didnt even agree with each other. Rosalind Hursthouse thought that both genders should have the exact same rights and oportunities regardless of anything. Simone de Beauvoir thought that they should have oportunities and benefits that were equal, but dependent on their gener role. For example, women got pregnant, so they should get paid leave to raise kids for a while. Men are (or were at the time) the primary providers for a family, so they get paid more. Both make sense, but which one os better, or more feminist, or "true" feminism doesn't really matter.

The manhating screaming feminists out there have found what they believe to be feminism for them, so we can't really say that they're wrong. We don't have to agree respect their choice but we do have to tolerate. Find what is right for yourself and work to acheive that goal.

EDIT: Btw, thinking that men and women are exactly the same is just naive. Not saying they should be treated differently, but they there are differences.

 

[FarleShadow]

I read feminist books every week, in fact that's escalating as it's coming up to exam time. If you want some legitimate counterarguments to feminism I'll give you some, but at the moment you're just coming off as a chauvanist.

I had to laugh at this.

He's coming off as a chauvanist and you're coming off as an elitist feminist who doesn't 'deign' to bother with even a title of a book.

ding ding!