The Myth of the Angry Feminist

[BRex21]

Ya equality is the idea of feminism, but people tend to quickly push the boat over into sexism(gender superiority), it is often claimed by women that not only should the rights be equal but women should get more... and that's where most of the misconceptions about the term come from, and the name really doesn't help out.

three words, Sweedish Man Tax. Men have to pay a tax because they abuse women, yet women dont have to pay any tax if they want the privelage to physically assault men.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that's not really a thing.

Double check: Well it is a thing, at least, as in it was proposed at one time (2005) by a self-proclaimed leader of a nonexistent feminist political party. The rationalization, while still silly, appears to be exactly nothing like how you described. The way you wrote it made it sound like this was actually something that existed.

This is something that has been proposed several times, and while i admit i am saying it in a inflamatory way it was a tax proposed on men with the entirety of the proceeds going to support womens shelters and legal programs to support women who are victims of domestic abuse.
After sweedish femenist groups started this similar programs have been proposed in other countries including France Britan and Canada. You say feminists only want equality, then these programs should be opposed by feminists, but instead they are the ones who push for them.

 

[Legion]

Funnily enough, I have come across far more women who fulfil the "angry-man-hater" stereotype who aren't feminists (or claiming to be) than those who actually are. Most people who associate themselves with feminism tend to be more level headed.

Now the western world is far more equal (than the world when the term was invented/made common), it should be called something like "equalism" or something, calling it feminism does have certain connotations and not all of them are particularly helpful for the cause itself.

 

[MaximillionMiles]

Look, it sucks to be EITHER gender in this world because this world SIMPLY. IS. NOT. FAIR. However, trying to COMPETE over who has it worse is not going to help, guys. Why not try to simply improve things for EVERYONE hmmm? This is not (for the lack of better phrasing) a dick-waving contest here.

This comment has restored some of my faith in humanity. Thank you.

 

[Rakkana]

Without getting into the whole double standards and sexism lets just say that it can be summed up with a look into the current relationship and double standards with black people.

I shouldn't even have to go into details.

 

[mr_rubino]

Ya equality is the idea of feminism, but people tend to quickly push the boat over into sexism(gender superiority), it is often claimed by women that not only should the rights be equal but women should get more... and that's where most of the misconceptions about the term come from, and the name really doesn't help out.

three words, Sweedish Man Tax. Men have to pay a tax because they abuse women, yet women dont have to pay any tax if they want the privelage to physically assault men.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that's not really a thing.

Double check: Well it is a thing, at least, as in it was proposed at one time (2005) by a self-proclaimed leader of a nonexistent feminist political party. The rationalization, while still silly, appears to be exactly nothing like how you described. The way you wrote it made it sound like this was actually something that existed.

This is something that has been proposed several times, and while i admit i am saying it in a inflamatory way it was a tax proposed on men with the entirety of the proceeds going to support womens shelters and legal programs to support women who are victims of domestic abuse.
After sweedish femenist groups started this similar programs have been proposed in other countries including France Britan and Canada. You say feminists only want equality, then these programs should be opposed by feminists, but instead they are the ones who push for them.

So like I said: Cute anecdotes you heard about, none of which amounted to anything.
Talk about taking the question literally: "I haz named a radical feminist I heard about once! Thus I am right, all feminists are man-haters because an unrecorded number of feminists no doubt agreed with this woman!" What are you hoping this adds?

 

[zehydra]

I'll take feminism as equality between the genders as soon as you drop the name. Don't call it feminism anymore.

 

[trooper6]

As if it's not incredibly obvious there's no overarching feminist movement based on shared ideals, I should point out that feminists disagree with each other all the time. Heck, go read Gender Trouble, one of the most popular and famous feminist books of today opens by slagging off virtually every other feminist who has ever lived. It's still a feminist book, and a well-loved one at that.

I enjoyed this post immensely, but wanted to dispute this one point. I don't think Gender Trouble is a feminist book at all. Rather, I think it is queer theory and sadly, those to things don't necessarily always equate to each other.

Other than that, carry on.

 

[trooper6]

"hairy legged, angry, man-hating lesbian."

1. Hairy Legged. There is nothing wrong with having hairy legs.
2. Angry. If you aren't angry, then you aren't paying attention. This ties into the assertion some are making that women are equal so we no longer need feminism. Sadly, women aren't equal. I could go on in detail about it, but it would take too much time. Society is better off for women than it was in 1965...but we all still have a long way to go.
3. Man-hating. I went to a women's college and there were a lot of lesbians. Some of the male graduate students would claim these lesbians were man-hating. News flash: Not being interested in sleeping with you does not equal man-hating. The feminists I knew? Not man-hating. Sometimes man-indifferent, but not man-hating. On the other hand, the non-feminist heterosexual women I was in the Army with? The ones who were regularly dating guys that treated them like crap? They hated men. A lot.
4. Lesbian. Most feminists aren't lesbian. And if we go back to the second wave, the feminist power structure of NOW marginalized and disrespected lesbians.

 

[Terminal Blue]

This. This is not an argument, it's a cryptic statement without true meaning, it's like saying "Oh there are lots of ice cream flavors!"

See post above. It's hyperbole, but hyperbole which is intended to establish the point that almost everything being described as 'what feminism really means' in this thread is completely arbitrary and simplistic.

Truly, truly sorry..... but You are wrong does not classify as an argument unless you explain why he is wrong. so enlighten me oh great noble sir/madam, what is it that qualifies you to make this kind of statement?

Compared to.. what.. basically saying that because you took one course which briefly and tokenistically talked about designing buildings in accordance to a 'feminist' agenda you understand perfectly how irrelevant the word is.

Anything involving the word 'gender', any position which posits sexual politics as anything other than entirely natural and correct and unchangable owes its existence to people like Simone de Beauvoir. Do I even have to say how important that is to almost every area of modern academia?

I enjoyed this post immensely, but wanted to dispute this one point. I don't think Gender Trouble is a feminist book at all. Rather, I think it is queer theory and sadly, those to things don't necessarily always equate to each other.

Damn good point, I'm not going to dispute because I kind of agree. I think studying queer theory (which is more my area than 'traditional' feminism) does mean questioning and undermining a lot of the things which feminist have held dear over the years.

However, I've never met a feminist who didn't idolize Judith Butler to some degree, so I don't think they're that separate, especially not any more.

Feminists are not idiots by definition. I'll happily come out and say that Mary Daly, for example, is a nasty piece of work who doesn't deserve tenure, but most people prepared to call themselves feminists nowadays are pretty aware that they live in 2011 and they can't keep talking about fighting the patriachy and equalizing the distribution of housework.

 

[newdarkcloud]

Feminist = Generally good people

Feminazi = "Please shut up!"

 

[funguy2121]

snip

There are two main parties to blame for off-kilter assumptions made about feminists: ignorance is the obvious one, but I also blame the 90's ideal of liberalism. In the 90's, so-called limousine liberals like Warren Beatty could stride across a red carpet to tell us what to do to feel better about who we are before getting back in said limo to go buy expensive champaign. There was such a flood of "look at us! Isn't it wonderful how accepting we are?" that it made traditionalists (such as myself, at the time) nauseous. In other words, it was AFFECTED liberalism. For feminism, particularly in Hollywood, this meant the Ally McBeals of the world had to constantly unintentionally break that fourth wall to literally remind us of what a strong, independent (but still sexy) woman they were. Not exactly a recipe for proselytizing.

As for the ignorance, well, it's easier to hate on women. It's easier to justify than, say, racism. It's easier to couch in gee-shucks good ol' boy terms. But that's just us guys. Women may hate feminism more than men (just ask Ann Coulter or Elisabeth Hasselbeck). I believe they fit the description of angry and crazy. Ann in particular is known for painting all who oppose her viewpoints as hateful and desperate to destroy everyone who disagrees with THEM. But they're not too far off in the crazy department from one Gloria Steinem. Steinem has for decades been one of the leading voices for feminism. She wanted Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas' ass when he sexually harassed Anita Hill, but didn't want to hear at all from Monica Lewinski ("because she's THE WHORE" --Bill Maher) when the Clinton scandal came to the fore. She also declared that no free woman should get married because it's tantamount to servitude - right up until she married Christian Bale's dad.

So feminists who do well do distance themselves from Steinem and those who proudly wear the tropes of the stereotypical "womyn."

Everyone has it bad. I think men have it worse. Still though, it must be good victimising yourself.

I'd love to hear why. In the dating world, women are usually holding all the cards (unless you're looking to play games and have plenty of money). The most hideous, unlikable woman can get laid pretty much at will, depending on her standards. This is not true of most men. Divorce courts statistically favor more women than men. But women still get paid less for doing the same job, they have rape and mugging to worry about, and if they get knocked up very often it's all on them to take care of it or raise the kid. There is more pressure on them to look/act/feel/think a certain way, plus their bodies make their psyche go apeshit once a month. I for one wouldn't trade, and that's not just because I'm unwilling to part with, um, certain body parts.

What the OP is talking about includes the transition from looking at how men treat women to how EVERYONE treats women, which cannot be done without looking at how men are treated. This is where feminism is going. I don't mind chasing spiders and climbing ladders but I'm not spending a dime on a woman unless she really impresses me, and certainly not because it's expected of me.

 

[AlexNora]

Here's a question for all the guys here: Let's say that an angel appears and tells you that there's been a horrifying screwup in Heaven, and that you were supposed to have been born female. It's going to turn you into a woman, but as a consolation, you can have any amount of money you like to make adjusting easier.

How much money would it take for you to consider turning into a woman permanently?

id do it for free

 

[Mstrswrd]

But there's not necessarily a myth; well, actually, I guess there is... the myth is that feminists want superiority, and that can't be defined as a myth, but as an outright lie. Feminists want full equality for women; I myself am usually defined as a feminist because I want full equality for women as well. However, the myth of the "supirority wanting" feminist is basically about the full out femi-nazi's. That term is loaded, as people like to say they don't exist, to which I say "Shut the hell up, you selectively blind *CENSORED*." There are extremist everything; extreme religious types, extreme anti-religious types, extreme politicial types, etc, and yes, extreme feminists.

So, please, understand that I only mean those that have taken feminism to the logical extreme; women who really do want men opressed, and themselves elevated to a higher status. They do exist; I think I've read a few dozen stories on this site alone about the femi-nazi who overreacts to some perceived slight because it was a man who did it; I myself was full on slapped by one once for holding the goddamn door open for the person behind me, who happened to be a crazy extreme feminist, aka a Femi-nazi. The fact that I slapped her back seemed to shock her.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Too few women in certain professions? Lets lower the standards and force a certain arbitrary amount of women to be employed!

This argument is hardly "casual sexism" as it makes no claim that women are inherently less able,

Actually that's exactly what he was saying. to have women in certain profession he says they have to lower the standards which directly implies that they are less able. Oh and women are disbarred from danagerous activities in the military not becuase they aren't capable becuase they aren't allowed to. If they were perhaps they could be just as capable as men.

I didn't say they weren't capable and I believe those restrictions should be lifted, but it is still important to note that the same work is not being done.

The idea in question is not that women are inherently inferior and will lower standards by their presence, but rather that basing hiring practices on factors other than pure ability can lower the overall ability of a workforce. As I said, this argument is not immune to criticism and it fails completely to hold up in the case that a surplus of fully qualified women exist in the field in question, which is often the case today. My argument is not that this position is correct but merely that it is not inherently sexist and can be applied to any such hiring restriction.

 

[funguy2121]

If feminists don't want to be stereotyped, they should stop stereotyping men. I've not yet met a feminist who doesn't regard all men as rapists. SOMEONE PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG.

Abigail Addams didn't think that John was a rapist.

Nor did Susan B. Anthony.

Joan Jett didn't call all men rapists.

Amelia Jenks Bloomer - ditto.

Ruth Bader Ginsberg - nope.

Sojourner Truth - uh uh

 

[Eldarion]

Feminism, at a basic level, is and has always been about EQUALITY between men and women. It was prompted by women feeling left out when men had more rights than them- i.e. right to vote, right to own property, right to be an individual citizen as a daughter or in marriage, etc. Just read Mary Wollstonecraft's A Vindication of the Rights of Women and you'll know what I'm talking about. But another aspect of feminism, especially more recently, has been the liberation of men from gender expectations as well as pushing for equal rights for any group that is departmentalized against, with the logic that if they are not helped, then women will not receive aid either.

Feminism is also about liberating men from gender expectations? I had no idea, I've been arguing that kind of thing for years.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

@ OtherSideofSky

I completely agree with you on the point that women should not be hired becuase they are women especially in such dangerous professions. That would beyond foolish and would apply the same to men. I don't think that's what the original quote was inferring though, I could be wrong.

If the same work isn't being done that would imply that there is still a need for 'feminism' as things are not equal (and I underline the term equal) and are being judged on sex not merit.

 

[Mr. Eff_v1legacy]

It's not a myth because there are angry, elitist feminists. It's a stereotype, and maybe not very prevalent, but they exist.

There's a feminist group at my university who call themselves the "Womyn's" group.

Yes, WOMYN'S.

Because "women" has the word "men" in it.

That's the kind of thing that gives feminism a bad name.